"beat the system" Tip #33: sit beside an empty seat
 

I have a (good) friend who improves his chances to sit beside a free seat (on not full airplanes) by:

Having a second seat reserved (at his side) on his wife's name (with a full-fare-unrestricted-one-way-ticket), cancelling this seat just at the very last moment (later on cashing in the full-fare-unrestricted-ticket).

He says, that sometimes, when the flight is really full, and the free seat will "disappear" anyway - he/she might even volunteer for giving up the seat (and cashing in what ever they get for doing this favour to the airline ...).

As I said, I would never do this, but I can't controle my friends ...

(from the guerilla-handbook)

Like Rudi, I too have a friend who specialized in something similar (sorry -- this is only kinda/sorta on-thread to Rudi's post!)...

Friend would book three tickets for holiday weekends to Colorado/Utah ski resorts. He/she and two friends would spend Thurs/Fri afternoon/evenings at airport getting bumped from two or three flights on different carriers.

Friend said it was a great way to fly free...

Oh the h-o-r-r-o-r...

Rudi,

I LIKE YOU!!!!

As with many of us on this board ---
Let's keep working the system!

Cindi

udi,

I thought of the same idea, but never tried it. I don't think this is a good place to tell these kinds of things because of who might be watching; we should use email instead.

I decided it was a bad idea to book an extra seat because although the airlines might have a difficult time proving that an additional seat was purchased with the intention the ticket would not be used, if they catch on, they might take a very dim view.

When airlines attempted to cap travel agents commissions, an irate travel agent in Texas booked, with refundable tickets, almost every seat on a Delta flight. As far as I know, since there were no passengers to use the tickets, the flight flew almost empty. I know that Delta filed a fraud(or similar) suit against the travel agent. I never found out the result, but I would think that Delta would have prevailed because the travel agent intentionally set out to deprive Delta of revenue. Anyone know the results? Although the empty seat issue is slightly different than that with the travel agent, I would think it would still be considered a form of "fraud". I guess you could always produce the passenger that would say they really were intending on flying in the extra seat, but in a formal inquiry, this wouldn't work...as Mr. Clinton found out the hard way.

I seldom worry (to much).

As I posted here several times: "the stories are (mainly, sometimes with personal attachments from me) from the book: The Airline Passenger's Guerill Handbook, 1989, ISBN 0-924022-04-3, no longer available, I tried to buy some used one's for some corresponding friends here on flyertalk, so far Amazon is still searching for it). And the stories are NOT recommendations.

And emailing the stories would pose new questions: to whom, how can I be/make sure about to whom, etc. etc. etc. - and before emailing some story to somebody, how do I find out who is interested in which story? And it would be less fun for the rest of you/us. So anyone is free to click on my "tips" or to go to another subject ....

And anyway, the book was published in the US, it was sold out, and I don't know about any claims against the book, the author or the publishing company.

I haven't heard yet Hitchkok or Wallace or Miss Marple having been sued for murder or giving tips for murder ....

And as I said also "I don't and wouldn't do it" (and this is the plain truth when I say that), another question stays unanswered, that is if really a good friend of mine or a brother have tried/would try/recommend .....

But in life there are always open questions - I love misteries ...

(by the way ... it is not so easy to sue me in Switzerland).

how does FlyerTalk, Randy, think about my sometimes more or less "dubious" but mostly very harmless tips here? any problems?

(and yet another attachment to this topic: since my 98-Superbowl-happening, published here about a month ago, and with all the chocolates that followed the good outcome, I know that the US-police is always on my side ...).

I have a (good) friend who thinks that as long as these topics are discussed in the abstract, there isn't much risk attached. It's true, the freq flyer tips are becoming dodgier, but this is when you are approaching maestro (ie Rudi) level. And sharing information doesn't mean acting on it, so the airlines needn't worry about a rush of phantom passengers/'business' travellers in the economy bathrooms, etc.

The travel agent who defrauded Delta was deliberately trying to harm the airline, whereas Rudi's phantom friend would give up the seat for paying passengers. Unless you take the airlines' money for a stunt like this, I don't see much harm done.

Speaking of stories (Emmett/Nancy coming up), I'm still waiting with bated breath for the Virgin tale, MF. Beginning to turn blue in the face, in fact. Perhaps that one you could e-mail, to avoid any litigious interests.

I was concerned that by posting on here, the airlines will know our ways around the system and perhaps change their policies to prevent loop holes.

Nothing like a good loop hole to crawl though. *s*

Nothing like a good loop hole to crawl through. *s*

Stupid cookies...they keep putting my real name on my posts.

Regards to the deliberate bumping strategy it is quite difficult to actually pull off. Suppose you buy an unrestricted, refundable ticket, then two possibilities arise:

(1) you get a boarding pass and then they ask for volunteers and you get bumped. However if the flight *isn't* full you have to back out at the last minute and get them to cancel your boarding pass and then refund your ticket. Difficult to do without drawing suspicion to yourself.

(2) you don't actually get a boarding pass but just go directly to the departure gate (possible in US airports only) - in which case by the probable time they are looking for volunteers (about 5-10 min before the flight) they are likely to deny giving you a boarding pass on the grounds that you arrived too late to get one and hence aren't entitled to being compensated for being bumped.

I admit that the above problems aren't unsolvable but do make it punitively difficult. If someone has a solution or critique of my analysis, please email me privately (I'd be happy to oblige the favor in any way I can - computer programming, upgrade coupons whatever !)

Is it true that sometimes the airlines block
out certain seats in the front of the coach
section for Elites and try to leave an empty
seat on the less busy flights?

A few times to DFW on United when I could
not get upgraded I had an empty seat next to
me, whcih ended taking my suit jacket, mini
office (I'll explain off-line to interested
parties) and other stuff.

It would be nice to get an empty seat, but I
would not go out of the way to do it.

Sometimes (esp in first/Business) if I
don't ahve to work on board it's nice to have
someone to talk to (and see their reaction to
my CAT pictures!) CATMAN

UA promises: "Whenever possible, we'll reserve the forward rows of the eco cabin on UA flights worldwide for our premier members. When you choose a window or an aisle seat, we will do all we can to place you next to an empty seat when space permits. So, unless your flight is full, you may have more room to spread out and work, or relax undisturbed".

(UA 1/98 welcome to 1K)

I'll cop to the intentional bumping scenario, and frankly, I have no fear of retribution from UAL. This is one of my best and most secret tricks, so pay attention. WHEN I HAVE AN EXTRA FEW HOURS ON MY OUTBOUND FLIGHTS, what I do (and I'm doing this again day after tommorrow) is use the United Connection software to track the flights to my intended destination to see which tend to be full and which tend to be empty. In my case (flying out of IAD) there is usually one around 4pm - 6 pm that tend to be oversold with passengers connecting from the eastern seaboard and europe. Then there is usually a last-of-the-day flight to most destinations at 7pm - 10pm that tend to be half full.

So I book myself onto the 4-6 flight, with some confidence that it will be oversold. I check in early and volunteer early at the gate to be bumped. When the flight has left (without me), I have my alternate plans all ready for the agent to book me on -- I ask for (and sometimes even get) an upgrade for my inconvenience of being bumped as well as a certificate to eat dinner in an airport restaurant in addition to the promised United-bucks. I have been succesful using this strategy 4 times so far this year (out of 6 attempted), for a total of $900 worth of United-bucks.

Since it doesn't matter to me if I arrive at my hotel at 8pm or 11pm, the only thing I lose is a few hours.

Here are the key points to making this work (IMO): 1) be exceedingly nice to the gate agent.
2) Act as innocent but sincerely helpful as possible.
3) Do your homework!!

Note: I ONLY try this when:
1) I don't have to be at my destination until the next morning.
2) I am flying econo.
3) I am ONLY carrying on luggage (no checked luggage)
4) On outbound flights...I want to get home from business trips as quickly as possible.
5) I have done it with connecting flights once, but it becomes twice as complicated...works best with non-stops.

I can see no legal, ethical or moral problem with this strategy, and it bought me tix (that I have upgraded using miles) for a three day weekend in paris to celebrate my anniversary with my wife in February!

(BTW, UAL, if you're lurking here, it's not *really* me doing this, its my "friend")

(Better safe than sorry!!!)

There you have it: My best tip revealed!!

thank you Matt (for sharing).

For long flights (if I have time options) my priority is a secured upgrade.

100 hours before the flight (1K = 100 hours in advance, that's when UA can confirm my upgrade) I phone (or visit UA in person) and may have UA look for alternatives (which they can confirm immediatly, because they also meet the 100 hours). So, for busy connections (often SFO-JFK/EWR or SFO-IAD or vice-versa), changing for the confirmed upgrades is only 1-2 hours delay.

Matt, tell your "friend" that's a terrific
tip. And I don't think it's illegal (if anything it's helping UA deal with one less
passenger on an oversold flight.)

If I don't have to be somewhere or have a
close appointment, I have volunteered to be
bumped to the next flight. THis is an OLD
trick, but it's nice to have the dinners or
coupons for future personal quick trips.
CATMAN

Long-time listener, first-time caller...

This isn't quite as clever as some of the other responses, but it is almost full-proof if the flight isn't actually sold out.

The Social-Engineering Approach:
Basically, this is a version of the 'chat up the ticket agent' method. Many people are so focused on getting upgrades that they forget about their coach seating assignments. Simply *Ask* to be re-assigned to a seat next to an empty seat. My preferred method is to leverage my status on USAir to get a seat the bulkhead or exit rows. USAir reserves these rows for preferred status holders. They also assign the middle seat only as a last resort. Thus, because bulkhead and exit are researved for preferred, and because most people, (especially preferred people) hate to sit in the middle seat, I almost always end up in a seat next to an empty middle seat.

-thanz

Thanz, glad you jumped in!

I used to take your approach until I started to notice that the exit row was the *only* row with someone sitting in the middle seat...

I surmised at the time that there were folks who would prefer to sit in a middle exit row seat rather than an aisle or window regular. Or that the agents were offering the exit middle seat as the first middle to go.

In any case, since my leg requirements are not so great (at a Napolionic 5'7 AND A HALF :), I prefer the space to spread out laterally and work or relax with an empty seat next to me rather than extra room in front...

The exception is the red-eye flights when I'll take an exit row at any cost :-)

Like United, Delta promises "preferred seating" for elite members. But that doesn't mean much when the flight is full, and I haven't been on a Delta flight recently that wasn't. My only hope is to get the aisle, where I can at least spread out in one direction (unless the cart is in the aisle beside me).

nothing wrong with using their rules against them--isn't that jiu jutisju (SP) or some other martial art. I will frequently volunteer my seat (gets me some strange looks when I ask for an upgrade, then immediately volunteer my seat). I am pretty unreservedly cheap. Anyway, United almost always gives me a $25 certificate for my trouble (one of the discretionary gray ones wrapped around my boarding pass as they call my name up to board the plane). Last time ORD/TPA, though, they cheaped out--granted the delay was only about 1 1/2 hours (although upon landing I saw the late night flight was going to be 2 hours late) they offered only $100 in certificates. I still offered my seat and when I got back my boarding pass, got 2 $25 certificates.

Ok here is a tip that I know has proven effective, not a nice one, but someone I worked with used it effectively.

In order to secure 1st class upgrades, the person booked (but did not ticket) 2 first class seats for Dr and Mrs. ???? Then did it for another person and checked the United Connection to see that no F class was available. He then assumed (apparently rightly so) that the FF's would avoid trying to upgrade that flight and run to another. He got upgraded and said the Gate agents were mentioning something about the F-Revenue passengers missing.

I think it is alittle wrong, but apparently he needed the upgrade from DC to LAX.

LAX 1K, that sounds a little fishy...

How would they know about the F-revenue pax if they weren't ticketed?

Did I misunderstand something?

I know somebody (really, a friend...not myself) who used the same trick of booking several first class tickets who would then be no-shows. Of course, this relies on the fact that most airlines don't overbook first class, only coach.

shadow, the airline would know because they still hold the reservation. But he (or LAX 1K's friend) never paid for the ticket, saying they'd pick it up at the airport before the flight.

And LAX 1K, I'd go further than "a little wrong." I'd say it's fraud - after all, they've deceived the airline and thereby precluded the airline from selling that first class seat. I want my upgrades as much as anybody, but this is way beyond the pale.

The "fake" reservation is an old trick that many used to use when there were super cheap "standby fares" - about 10 + years ago. So many people would book reservations a few days in advance and "buy ticket at airport" that the standby fares were dropped. Too many flights leaving half full. I have heard of some doing same thing to improve chances of getting on an earlier flight when they have a non-refundable ticket, but don't want to pay a change fee for an earlier flight (so just standby).

Best way to get an empty seat next to you - just ask 10 minutes before flight time if flight isn't too full. I know AA has "blocked" seat next to me on international flights when they knew they had a light load.

Another gimmick - when you have 2 traveling, book an aisle and window (on 3 across). If middle shows up and you want to sit together, middle person gladly moves to aisle or window.

Just bringing forward some more useful threads http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Rudi's tips are always useful.