Miles are not free
 

I tried to book something using miles and when I got too picky, I was rudely informed that I was getting a "free ticket" and in so many words told I should be grateful.

I quickly informed this gal that the ticket was NOT free. I earned those miles just as one earns a salary. Miles are a currency that is earned.

I will never again use the phrase "free ticket" when getting a mileage flight because those miles were not given to us free. The price of getting miles is reflected in the ticket price, not to mention our loyalty to an airline.

Absolutely right. They are award tickets, not free tickets.

I once asked an agent in a similar situation "Do you ever think about how many hours I spent in your planes to earn those miles, and how much money I spent to pay your salary while I was doing it?"

The agent's attitude changed immediately. I'd like to believe that it stayed changed, if not forever after, at least for the next few people who booked international J awards.

We should, however, not be too harsh on these folks. They have a job most of us on FT would not take, and they don't get rich doing it.

It irks me when a friend, relative or acquaintance nonchalantly says to me, “Why don’t you use your miles to fly here?”

I then politely inform them that I earned those miles while doing such things as waiting through a five-hour delay at an airport on my own time, circling another airport for an hour before landing on my own time, as well as recounting other hassles for which I do not get compensated — even though it really is none of their business. I do not even discuss the actual flight itself, where I actually earn the miles.

I also politely recount why I will not use 25,000 miles for a US$200.00 domestic flight — even though it really is none of their business. I get far greater value for my miles when I fly internationally, where airfares tend to me more expensive.

The miles are for my leisure travel, and I have the right to determine for which destination I would like to use those miles. To me, they are a form of currency that has value, similar to (but not exactly the same as) cash.

Finally, I agree that banked miles do not equal a “free” flight. I earned those miles. Plus, the flight is not actually free of charge anyway when one still has to pay taxes, fees, etc. on a “free” flight.

If you paid higher prices to get tickets in higher classes so you could get miles faster, I see the point.

But if you bought only the lowest fares available, and those HAPPENED to give you miles, how are those miles not free (to you)?

Similarly, if you earn miles through a no-free credit card (such as one that gives you only 1 mile per 2 dollars spent directly into an airline's FF program, or a hotel one which you later transfer into miles), and it costs you nothing more to pay with that credit card (you carry no balance, of course!) than by any other means, how are those miles not free (to you)?

If you get bonus miles for an activity which costs you nothing in money (say, filling out a survey, or eating at a different restaurant that costs no more than the one you would have eaten at otherwise), how are those miles not free (to you), unless perhaps you count the cost of the extra time it takes you to get those bonus miles?

So while I would agree that miles are NOT NECESSARILY free (to the recipient), there are people who only collect miles when they can get them free (for example, they sign up with every FF program and still choose to fly whoever has the lowest price, and thus accumulate more slowly into a variety of programs), and never do anything to earn miles if it would cost them more than not earning miles, and still (over time) get enough miles for an award ticket. In those cases, how is it not a "free ticket" (at least in those months when a Security Fee is not imposed and on those award tickets where you don't have to pay taxes) for them?

(And I'm not talking about things seeming "free" because your employer paid the money. I'm talking about "free" miles even when speding your own dime on all these activities.)

Now, of course, if you consider your incremental time to have a monetary value, then even THINKING about miles is probably not free. But then, thiinking about whether anything is free is probably not free. :) And in particular, spending time looking for the lowest fares is not free.

So it basically boils down to: Everyone has to do their OWN math.

Miles free?
 

I like to think of them as free, but with a value. If they had a monteray value, that was accepted uniformly, then maybe the IRS would really put forth an effort to tax them.

The res agent shouldn't have called them free, maybe they should have said "those miles have no legal monetary value, and carry many restrictions that make use of them, on discounted or saver awards restrictive."

Well, they are valuable, you know.

Every time I take a CO flight the F/A reminds us. :rolleyes:

About a year ago I got into a discussion on another travel board with a die-hard CO employee about CO's stinginess in redeeming miles for international flights, other than through SleazyPass. He posted a sermon about how much they could get for a full-fare seat so why should they give it away "for nothing"? Well, once I realized that a loyal CO employee believed that the points were worthless I cancelled my CO Visa and took my loyalty elsewhere. I've flown AA/BA to India and to Europe this year (another trip to Europe scheduled) and have flown CO to Cleveland.

The airlines can't have it both ways. They can't claim that their points are valuable when they hand them out and worthless when you want to redeem them.

Because by using the mile-awarding credit card, they are not using one that could have, say, a cash-back feature. Then they can say that the miles costs them something. For example, the 1 mile for 2 dollars spend compared to a 1% cashback means that a mile obtained "costs" 0,02$. A good rate for most people, but not "free" anyway.

These are free activities, but they do not constitute the bulk of the miles earned.

I'd love to see numbers about redeeming of miles for free tickets. I was under the impression that large majority of miles are given to unfrequent flyers, who will not accrue enough miles to get a free ticket before they expire.

Indeed. There is no set value for a mile, it depends of the way they are accrued and spent, and the amount earned each year. If you have a good chance of getting an international award, you'll be ready to pay a little more for miles.

I was on the phone with a UAL CSR a few weeks ago, trying to find award availability. I said to her something like "I'm always amazed that I get to go to such great places for free!" and she replied, "your award flights aren't free--you earned those miles, and we appreciate your loyalty." I was really impressed that she "got it."

Mr. CheapSk8 and I reevaluate every June & January which loyalty programs we're focusing on, and thus which credit cards to use, airlines to book flights on, etc. I have to admit that in our June reevaluation, her remarks made a big impression, and we are back to focusing on UAL for at least the next 6 months, after about the last year of UAL being our second choice for air travel.

Wow! miles expiring?!? must be one of the "other" airlines!

As I often find myself paying (out of my own pocket) more for a ticket on the airline with the program I want miles in rather than on a cheaper competitor, the miles, and subsequent award tickets, are anything but "free."

Statistically over all FFers, yes, and perhaps even for all European members (given that there's no iDine in Europe), yes also.

But there is, for example, one person over in the iDine forum who eats out typically a couple dozen times a month at iDine restaurants and earns over 10k miles just from iDine most months. Well, do the math on that and you can see that even if this was the ONLY way this person was earning miles, they would earn over 100k a year, which (if it's all on airline, which might be tricky with iDine, depending) is an international business class flight or 4 domestic US coach flights.

And while it's far from all iDine (mostly Diners Club and hotel stays with Priority Club and Hilton HHonors and car rentals with Avis), I've flown transatlantic coach once with BA and later this year expect to fly transatlantic business class with BA and both are award tickets and not a SINGLE BA mile that I have to date has been earned by flying. (For people living in the western US who don't travel internationally on business, and whose travel is mostly on their own dime, BA makes it hard to earn any miles by actually flying but actually makes it easier to earn BA miles than domestic US airline miles in many situations using partners!) However, in this case I wouldn't call my BA miles "free" because I didn't stay at the very cheapest hotels possible or use the very cheapest credit card possible...

Almost all airline's miles expire EVENTUALLY if you have no activity (say, for 3 years). For a true frequent flier that sticks to one or two airlines (and their airline partners), that's typcally a non-issue. But I think the point of the poster you were replying to was that a vast amount of miles are awarded to INfrequent flyers who sign up for FF programs "just in case" but then forget about them and/or never have "chance" to fly that airline again before the 3-year (or whatever) expiration period is up. (These are people who don't choose the airline based on the FF program they belong to, they choose solely on price and/or convenience, and only earn miles if they "happen" to fly again on the same airline. Thus "by chance".)

Thank you for explaining my point more clearly than I did :) I was thinking of the accounting practices regarding outstanding miles, and the fact that companies were not really showing them among their liabilities. Given that the FFP membership are generally free and that airlines often try to enroll you in their program, I suppose many people end up with a lot of miles on many different airlines, never reaching the threshold for redemption. For them, miles are probably free, but they can rarely use them anyway. So "award tickets" are rarely "free tickets".

Good points on another post regarding iDine. I didn't know of this program, and it sounds interesting for someone in the US.

miles are corrupt business and we just know more than some
 

consider bootlegging booze in the 1930s or 1920s. That's what miles are in a way today.

I figure we are just a bunch of rum runners who happen to have the skinny on the best route from Canada or something. We FTers know more than Tom, Dick and Harry, and for that, there is a cost.

The entire miles racket is not only not free, but often involves as much pain, suffering and gunslinging and glory as was enjoyed or endured by guys and gals with names like Sal and Mugsy back in the day, see?

(They even talked funny and had a tooth pick in their mouth and were wearing sharp pin stripe suits and pointy hats)

Miles crap is a racket. A racket that knows no tax (that's good so far) and has no accountability except by those who run the show, see? Them are the big majors, see, and they are gonna win this game unless we beat 'em to it, mac, and that's that!

But there IS a cost and these airlines should know it. I intend to tell 'em what for...

Their CSRs should know what we go thru and whenever one tells me I am lucky to have a free ticket, I'm liable to smack 'em one, see?...

Why I oughta... (think: Moe, Curly, Shemp, Larry...)

Anyway, if you add up time on the internet and phone, mail-ins, waiting., frustration when things dont post my favorite gripe), sign ups and buying things from partners (the corrupt part1) and wishy-washy award levels and availablity when you actually need to redeem them, then you can clearly see what I mean.

Credit cards, interest rates, rebates, tax payments, blood donations, dining, cars, hotels, surveys... It goes on indeed. All are costs.

We didnt start the fire.

Even the money order or gift card gigs had a cost. And so does our collective and shared knowledge on these subjects, which, if someone wanted to learn it, they might pay good money to ramp up more quickly and get sum for themselves. (As some know, I found that out, by the way, but that was then).

So screw 'em if they think it's free, buster! It aint, I tell ya! It just aint!

Now that we're talking about the roaring 20's, can Boston have Babe Ruth back?

;)MM gangsta
GO Red Sox!

I guess the question for me, when it comes to miles and points, is: if the airlines didn't give miles, or if the hotels didn't give points for free stays, would the price of flights or rooms go down? Do they really "factor in" the cost of awards into the prices we pay, or into business as a whole? You'd think the answer would be yes...

Because if we pay for the miles anyway, even a fraction of their "true" value (whatever that is), then they're certainly not free. But if awards suddenly went away and prices didn't budge, well, then they are free.