Is top-tier status overrated?
 

I am wondering what other FlyerTalkers feel about this...is top-tier status overrated?

I have no elite status, but my father is a Gold Preferred with US Airways. As such, he has upgraded 100% on non-MetroJet or Express flights. While transcons are upgraded with "Us20" domestic awards and some flights are Y-Fares (and upgraded at time of booking), the majority is on discount fares.

Using antecdotal advice from FlyerTalk:

US: I expressed my father's experiences. From what the US board says, Golds are very near if not at 100%, CPs are almost always 100%, and Silvers have an incredibly good percentage (75%?)

DL: Talking only about upgradeable fares, Platinums seem to be easily 100% or close to it, and Golds are in the mid 90s. Silver is in the 60%s (?)

CO: Lots of variation on this which is surprising for what is considered the best upgrade program: Platinums and Golds range from 75-100%, but most Plats are very near 100%. Some silvers, like Mr. toner, are near 75%+, while others are down in the 20%s.

TW: I don't know much about the airline, but from what I hear, all levels have a very high percentage.

AA: Golds average maybe 50. Explats seem to have 100% or so, and Plts around 75%.

UA: WOW!! 1Ks I would say only an average of 80% or so. PremEx maybe 50% and Premier much lower.

So that's what I pick up from this place. Do you agree with the percentages? They are no where near exact, but you get the idea. 100% is always except maybe just one or two flights. 75% is more often than not, 50% is so-so, and less than 50 is occasionally.

From this, I think UA is the only airline where domestic upgrades make a huge difference. Everything else is pretty close.

As for the other benefits, general treatment seems to make a big difference. But does it?

I'd like to open it to you, who really experience what I'm talking about, rather than just read about it. In your frequented airline, how do the published and unpublished benefits (upgrade percentage, general treatment from staff) compare between the various levels?

-BizJet

I often wondered why the UA people seem to have a much lower chance of an upgrade until I read PremEx's site and learned they receive 2(??) upgrades per quarter if they fly a set number of miles. AA does not offer this benefit and therefore the competition for those certificate/sticker upgraded seats is much less.

As Exec Plat I have only failed 1 time to get an upgrade (a flight to Vegas that showed zero in F almost 3 months prior to flight day). All the other times my upgrade had cleared prior to me getting to the airport.

As a platinum my average was near 80 percent, however, I would have to standby at the airport many times.

What I miss are the days of being ExecPlatinum before they allowed 100K miles to qualify. Ticket agents would jump through hoops to assist me. I have noticed a slow decline in the last year as Exec Plat as become more common.

The question being is top tier worth it? I would say YES. Assuming i continue to fly 120K miles per year, I would much rather have 1 ExecPlat card then a Plat and a PremEx/GoldPreffered/Mid-TierAnyAirline card anyday.

rich

Thanks for the insight, RichLond. I agree that top-tier status is always better than mid-tier. There's little question about that. But what I am getting at is how much more is it worth? Is two mid-tiers better than one top-tier, or the other way around?

I also agree about how when floodgates open, benefits decline. And/or treatment from staff. US Airways Chairmans Pref (top-tier) had to give up some benefits when they started allowing segment qualification (of which US has a lot of, as you can imagine). Loss of US Airways Club access is one off the top of my head.

More comments, please.

BJ

I can only comment on UA, but they're treating me much better as a 1K than they did when I was Premier Executive. It's not just the upgrades - they watch out for me better in other ways, too (got me on an oversold flight, protected me on a misconnect, etc.).

As for the upgrades, just try upgrading out of SFO (or any other UA hub) as a Premier Executive. But I'd say your percentages are too low - the only time I don't get the upgrade is when I have to change planes at the last minute (that is, at the airport); otherwise I'm closer to 100%. I'm also at 100% for the seven times I've stood by waiting for international upgrades with systemwide upgrades.

RichLond, your upgrade information is slightly off. All elites (any level) get a booklet with four 500-mile upgrades for every 10,000 miles they fly. In addition, 1K's get four North American upgrades, confirmable in advance, for January-March, plus two more each remaining quarter they fly at least 10,000 miles. That's 10 North American upgrades plus 6 systemwides, per year, but for 1K's only. Granted that 50-60% of my flight miles are international, but that's so many domestic upgrades I have a surplus, without buying more booklets or cashing in miles.

Bottom line: on United, 1K is far superior to Premier Executive.

Hey Biz,

I did say in my last post that 1 top tier is DEFINITELY better 2 mid tiers. However, I think individuals have different reasons for their preffered carriers and why they want to reach top tier.

I have 2 priorities: 1) cheap fares 2) miles miles miles all over the world. Low on my list: domestic upgrades.

With American I get the 100 percent bonus on all 1-world carriers. I can convert electronic upgrades to miles (triple miles world wide for the last 3 years since i discovered this benefit). What exec platinum gives me on AA is the ability to fly in comfort cheaply. The 4 VIP2s that offer no capacity control upgrades are in my opinion the best benefit of any program. I also have a 7 out of 12 hit on operational upgrades internationally this year. No way that would have happened if i was just platinum.


johna: thanks for the clarification. UA policies are not my strongpoint. I refuse to set foot in a UA plane ever since they expired 13,000 of my miles even after filling out the web form to extend those miles!! I even faxed the confirmation to them and after many many conversations just gave up.

rich



[This message has been edited by RichLond (edited 10-20-2000).]

I don't blame you. The main reason I avoid AA at all costs is that they expired my 26,000 miles without even sending me a letter warning me that they were going to. Had I known...... Oh, I did get some miles out of the "settlement", but not enough to do anything with.

The airlines should realize that some people don't forget.

I can say I see a large difference between UA mid and upper level.

1Ks get free Upgrades on Shuttle flights, wavier of alot of fees.... calls on delays, protection of seats, "operational" and "complimentary" upgrades during certain situations, etc.

I really do like UA's network.. ifyou fly to many locations, there are extensive non-stops. Non-stops are wonderful... as much as we like segments.. I sometimes need to get someone early.. and United works wonders for me from southern california...

I think the highest tier status on UA matters a lot at IAD. I just became a 1K but as a Premier Exec I had to really work hard to make sure I flew in front, and often even then I didn't. IAD-SFO and IAD-SEA are two very competitive markets and there are lots of 1Ks so as a PE you don't stand a chance on the most popular flights.

But I think if I was at a non-hub city I wouldn't have as much trouble.

On US, I don't think there are as many elite members as a percentage of fliers. I am gold preferred (although I'll only be Silver next year) and I have practically always gotten upgrades (100% except for those Friday-before-a-long-weekend-sold-out-flights-at-the-last-minute).

So I would say in some markets (non hubs) you could probably have lower status and get status on several airlines, so as to upgrade discounted flights, get the FF bonuses, etc. But if you are in a hub town, you probably need top status if you travel a lot and want to be upgraded consistently and get the best treatment.

In terms of upgrade %, as a PE out of PDX I suspect I do a helluva lot better than PE's out of SFO and LAX. I'm about 80% for the year. Not bad for a mid-level elite on UA.

"I can convert electronic upgrades to miles (triple miles world wide for the last 3 years since i discovered this benefit)."

RichLond,

Could you explain this benefit for us braindead. Thanks.

For me, a top priority are the unpublished benefits of being elite any any level. For example, will they waive the $75 fee, will they waive other fare rules, will they sometimes upgrade me in advance, will they put me up in a hotel due to weather, will they be more responsive to complaints, will they rebook me on other flights even if it was "my fault" I missed the original flight with no add fare collection/service charge, etc. Besides upgrades, this is what really matters to me, and I'd really be appreciative if others could post experiences re such unpublished benefits.

Last year I was CO Gold, this year Plat. On the telephone about 98% of the time, they will not make any special exceptions. Miss your flight? Ok, buy the Y fare you really owe us. Miss your morning flight? Ok, go to the airport and go standby. At the airport I have better luck. I would say about 50% of the time they will waive change fees and fare rules...though it heavily depends on who you get as opposed to any policy. Some agents do whatever you want, and others stick to the rule book as if there life or job depends on it. I have not noticed a difference, from Gold to Platinum, in terms of being more regularly accommodated in these situations. I've also been surprised that the airline clubs (with my Plat and lifetime card) are not less strict. Better luck right at the gate, or sometimes the tkt counter. You must try to scope out the agents, get a feel for the person, watch people......its a bit like gambling. Yes there is some science you can apply, but it all comes down to luck. Another tip: If you need to change a ticket, buy an airline lounge membership, and ask the agent who sells you the mem in person to change your ticket. I had a really cheap ticket on CO, bought a club mem, and asked the agent to change it. I was rebooked in Y on the flights I wanted, regardless of what cheap booking code I was originally in, and no charge or add collect. Years before I also joined the club, and saw the agent the next day at gates. She said my upgrade was not really valid on my cheap ticket, but "as a courtesy" they would honor it and "didn't you join the club yesterday?"

I'm also Gold on DL, but I mainly fly the DL Shuttle. They have weekend tickets for $100 which have very restricted times. I must have bought about 9 of these tickets in the last three months, and on at least 8 of them I have been able to fly at times which the ticket says you cannot fly. These have been same-day changes, but at earlier/later times not meant for discounted travel. E.g. take the 6PM instead of the 8PM (plus get better snack on earlier flight). Only once, in these trips, did they make a comment like "I'm going to waive this for you, but the ticket says we're not supposed too, and I just want you to know that all the agents might not do this." Another time one agent was saying something about the times being wrong and a colleague just told her to book me on whatever flight I want to take. A friend of mine, with no elite status, tried to do the same thing. They told him he must fly the tkt times, they got a supervisor, and the supervisor agreed and they made him wait in the airport for like 4 hours.

Years ago I was Gold on US, again flying the shuttle. A flight attendant told me that if you fly a lot, they really don't care what time you fly regardless of the fare rules.

Again to me this is the interesting part (the fun stuff) of being elite. It's like a game...you have strategy and luck all together with your status, who you are, and the agent you get. Do you see it as a game? Are you a good player? Do you usually win or lose?

fetchem,

I'm not Richlond, but can hopefully explain what this is about:

If your AA/OW travel patterns don't allow you to use domestic upgrade credits - that is, if you fly all or predominantly international, and I believe also OW partner, commuter and other flights where you can't use them - AA will redeem credits for 2500 miles each. Since you get 4 credits per 10000 miles flown that's a 100% bonus, giving you triple miles if you already get double miles as PLT or EXP.

Reportedly, if you reach a nice agent in a good mood they'll convert even if your usual travel pattern would allow you to use them.

Hi Jetsetter!

I really like your examples and stories. It is interesting to compare notes about exceptions made, accommodations that were made despite being against the rules, etc.

I was Prem Ex on UA with 98,400 miles so I decided to go over the top to become 1K.

Recently on my mileage run from BWI to the west coast back to BWI, I was travelling on a fare that is Tuesday/Wednesday, one day minimum stay, 7 day advance purchase, BWI-LAS via BWI-LAX-LAS-ORD-BWI. I upgraded by telling them I have two North American confirmed upgrades (which I do.)

I made the reservation to go to LAS Tuesday and come back Wednesday. Then I called back in 10 minutes and changed the return to Tuesday, LAS-ORD-BWI. I didn't want to go to ORD but I got an upgrade LAS-ORD-BWI. The phone person changed the ticket with no problem, informing me that there might be a $75 charge.

Travelling on the ticket I got what I consider royal treatment even though it was a $198 fare ($220 with taxes.) They never mentioned the $75, for instance.

When I got out of the plane at LA I got onto an earlier flight to LAS. In LAS, I called and got an upgraded itinerary LAS-DEN-BWI. They offered to fly me to IAD even though this is a much more expensive fare, but my car was at BWI so I needed to get to BWI.

I had the clear impression that I could have gotten off of the connection in LA, called and booked LAX-IAD direct if I had wanted to. I didn't try that but I was tempted. I had time and was enjoying my flights and getting a lot of work and thinking done, or I would have.

I'm sure others have similar experiences. Last July I travelled with my wife BWI-PHL-ROM-PHL using 2 systemwides on US instead of 4, because they had mistakenly informed me on the phone that I could upgrade a companion as well (and if you look at the wording on those certs you can see why there is the ambiguity.) I had to chat on the phone while at the ticket counter with US but they graciously gave in so I didn't have to use miles. I knew they would, too. I wasn't playing a game, I had confirmed this with them on the phone (obviously the person I had spoken to was mistaken) but they honored their word as I would expect. I am a US Gold Preferred as I mentioned, so only middle tier.

The times I don't get accommodated on UA is when they insist on collecting certs. I don't know if they've ever failed to collect them.

BTW, on the flight BWI-LAS routing, I gave them 500 mile certs in the club and they happily accepted them, so I still have my North American confirmed certs.

As top tier in both US and DL programs, and an AA platinum the last three years, my experience has been that I get upgraded over 95% of the time with US and DL. With AA, due to the limited upgrades offered, I was usually upgrading about 25% of the time. I am one of those nonrefundable 100 segmenters that I guess ruin it for those who can pay for Y or A at the last minute but end up in coach.

Walk into the terminal at SJC on a Sunday evening around 5:15. Stand on your tiptoes and locate the AA ticket counter. View the sea of humanity that are not top-tier flyers. Just not having to get in that line makes being Platinum, or Gold for that matter, very worthwhile.

I would say that I am at close to 80% for flying in the front cabin.

I too surely think, it IS worth it! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I haven't made 1K yet, so I can't tell you about the difference b/t 1K and PremExec. But when I was PremExec I got many more last minute upgrades than when I was a lowly Prem. The only one I missed was to/from Hawaii when the entire front cabin was PremExec or 1K.

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"If you want to win the game, write the rules."

Will have to agree about the "perks" of being an elite, but have to say I've enjoyed 1 year of being a Silver on NW than 3 years as Premier on UA. I've had 100% luck on NW this year (I really have no joke!) compared to less than 10 upgrades on UA in 3 years. Plus NW began a "no-cert" policy this year, so if the seats are available, I can get them. It's been a big plus on the trans-con flights I've had this summer.

Charles

Not trying to start anything but...

This doesn't help me or anyone else interested in this topic at all, without valid backings. Everyone else has provided various examples of how top-tier has saved them or how they think mid-tier is fine.

I beg all not to say something unless it is helpful or relevant.

I can only speak for UA as that is the only US carrier that flies to SYD. Others above have summed it up well. The HUGE difference to me as I live at the "end" of the route network is the 6 x Systemwides that 1K's get, (12 this year due to a loophole it seems if you first qualify and fly 100,000 miles this year as I will do by next flight)

TWO of these certs cover upgrading way in advance on a 31,150 mile flight roundtrip AUST-USA-GERMANY-USA-AUST such as this one I make to the DUS "Altbier" fest next week. Twelve upgrades like THAT is quite a difference from Premier Executive (Gold )level and to me that one difference is worth about $12,000-$15,000 VERY conservatively.

http://www.chicago.com/cgi-bin/gc?PA...OR=&MAP-STYLE=




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~ Glen ~

I think the answer depends on what you want and what you need.

I wanted to become a top-tier flyer because I was going on lots of international trips for work, and I didn't want to sit in coach.

Now that my company policy is changing so that they pay for transoceanic business class, the whole top-tier thing is becoming less attractive to me.

As being a UA 1K for the past three years, I feel quite fortunate having been upgraded operationally or with confirmed upgrades on every single transoceanic flight. Even with upgrades, I often got seat assignments with my next seat empty! The concierges and FAs have always been very accommodating, though there have been several noteworthy exceptions. On domestic transcon flights, I often get my favorite single seat with more recline and much more legspace in 767s. Only time I did not get upgraded was on a couple of domestic flights during this past summer of chaos.

With respect to CO, where I am a Platinum,
I get upgraded 100% in North America. Internationally too, I have always been able to upgrade using miles. ( CO does not offer international upgrade certificates. )

What is also exceptional about the very top-tier status is that when redeeming award trips, it sure makes a lot of difference.

I am trying to become AA Platinum by the end of the year and am looking forward to see what AA's elite status is going to be like.

I have been very careful in arranging my trips this year in order to achieve top-elite status on these three carriers. As much as I travel, I need to sit in front and rest well while in the air, as not all of my trips will be full-fare business class.

Kaoru. Are you ever on the ground? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif How many flown miles do you guess you will do in 2000?

Ozstamps,

I will easily top 200,000 miles this year. Add to this a couple of transpacific and intra-asia award flights, I am not going to even begin my additons.

Although UA only gives 1K with actual flying miles or 100 segments, American and Continental credits business/first class bonus miles towards achieving their respective elite status. This makes a very noteworthy difference. I just found out that AA even credits its elite bonus miles on some other OW carriers such as CX; this, in effect, enables me to achieve AA Platinum with much more ease than actually flying 50,000 miles. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ( Even though, I am now trying to get AA Platinum status comped so that my requirement would even get lower for next year!)

I normally achieve my 1K status by flying just over 100,000 *A carrier miles, when there is no further benefits to be received by being 2K. ( In fact, one of the NRT concierges recently reprimanded me of being a promiscuous flyer, having seen my handsome steel One Pass Platinum tag attached to my carry-on. I simply said to her, if UA was going to give me 12 Systemwides, I would be happy to just stick to them with a smile. )

I prefer to fly Continental in N. America and Mexico with their extensive and convinient schedules out of EWR and their unlimited UG opportunities. But I would never fly their narrow-bodies on transcons.
Yet their BF products is far superior to C class of UA. IMHO.

Yes, Oz, I am on the ground alot. I think it is alot harder to achieve top-tier status by segments what with all their airport transfers and connections, etc and my hats off to fellow FTers who do so. I think you might find out that a quick long-haul intercontinental flights actually reduces the chance of jet-lags on your upcoming DUS run. Do let me know...

I must admit though that I love flying but never imagined that I would be doing so this much. That's why I treasure seating comforts and wonderful lounge facilities as much as the convenient schedules and upgrade opportunities, thereby the importance of the top-tier elite status on several carriers.

Finally, where do all my miles go? I am happy to give premium class trip gifts to my family. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Kaoru Kanetaka (edited 10-29-2000).]

Speaking only about UA, for me there is a world or difference in UA Prem Exec and UA 1K. I've bounced back and forth between both for the past several years and to me the difference is huge. I fly mostly shuttle, so the free upgrades are a great benefit. Higher priority for waitlist is also a lifesaver as I am constantly changing my return flight by a few hours. Shorter check in lines are great as are the 1K rooms (especially Denver!!). True, I don't get upgraded as often as most people seem to but I frequently fly on crowded routes without much advance booking, so I typically miss out on the 100 hour confirmed upgrade advantage. Overall, 1K status noticibly reduces my stress level - it makes it so easy to just roll with the weather, delays, cancellations, etc. UA takes pretty good care of me.

My wife is mid teir on US and I am top teir. The treatment difference can be night and day -- though it comes down they are much more polite when they say no to me. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

In the bigger scheme of things I'm beginning to give up on being elite -- it's just not worth the hassle http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I fly enough to get top-tier status on American, Delta, and US Airways.

American and Delta are earned via miles, while US Airways is earned via 100 segments (mostly US Airways Shuttle service). I say that top-tier status is in general worth it. I don't fly my three airlines exclusively as much to earn status as I do because I really like flying them. Personally, I'd rather connect on my preferred airlines than a nonstop on another. But status does play a huge roll in this.

Domestically, I like upgrades, and US Airways, Delta, and American all have lots of them available to top-tiers. On applicable fares, it is relatively rare for a top-tier to be seated in coach. This isn't true in my experience with United or others. Internationally, I fly Business Class. Delta's BusinessElite business class is great, and I fly AA First Class using a mileage upgrade.

I fly US Airways pretty much all domestically, and they're very good. I like their US Airways Shuttle product. And I think I've been treated very well as a top-tier flyer.

There are tricks to get more status for your money. The main one I utilize is the double-dip deal between American and US Airways Shuttle. About 1/4 of my AA miles come from this deal. But, unfortunately, it only lasts through the end of this year, and it might now be renewed.

I might switch to United, but not right now. The THAI mileage run sounds appealing, and if the merger occurs, UA will be very big in my home airport.

I have top tier with three airlines (and therefore 3 alliances) Delta (Plat), BA (Gold) and BD (Gold) (Skyteam, One World and Star Alliance).

Until quite recently, I could have sung the praises of DL Platinum. It was far superior to Gold and Silver in many ways, not least of all upgrades, lounge access, and the general treatment that I got from DL employees. They really went the extra mile for Plats, somewhat more than they did for Gold and quite a lot more than for Silver. Upgrades were great, and it was truly a superior program. Unfortunately with the SWU changes that have been announced as well as some attitude (not to mention personnel changes at DL) this status seems to quickly be losing its lustre. As for Skyteam, although it is new, my only experiences have been with AF whose employees couldn't seem to care less about your status (i.e. I've been refused access to Af's lounges, even when showing written proof that I coulkd use them, and have had loud arguments with "line ushers" at CDG who insist that I must get out of the Business/First line when checking in).

BA's program is poor. As a silver you could use lounges, but they didn't care much about me. As a Gold, they don't seem to care anymore than they did when I was silver. I will say however that Iberia and Cathay seem to treat me better with my BA credentials than BA itself.

BD, really treats both its Silvers and Golds quite well. They seem respectful, and most importantly, seem to nactually bump people off flights to get you on. Supposedly they are good with upgrades on a Space available basis, but I haven't had the chance to experience it yet. As for Star Alliance, apart from a few LH flighs I have yet to test how respected their credentials are with other carriers.

Is "top tier" over=rated ? No, if anything under-rated. Overall, it makes for considerably less stressful flying. Upgrades are what it's about, and here's why: more comfortable seating; less crowded, hectic boarding; top coat and jacket are hung up rather than stuffed in the overhead bin, allowing you to arrive relatively neat; better chance of making connections when you don't have to wait 20 minutes for your row to exit the plane; quicker, more responsive service when there's a delay or problem (if nothing else, you are first in line at the re-booking counter); more fleixibility on the part of agents in changing flights, bending rules on occasion; more comfort and a drink when you are waiting an extended time on the tarmac.

I have experienced each of these advantages at one time or another as a platinum for more than ten years on Northwest. They made flying tolerable as flying itself became more crowded, hectic and stressful over the last decade. Upgrades allowed me to arrive relatively sane and unstressed, and fresh for the work waiting at the destination. Were I to do it all over again, I would value top tier status even more highly than I did, and take it far less for granted.

Being a DL Gold, allow me to say that the only benefit I really saw was waitlist priority for Upgrades (Int'l) was good. I would usually have the 2nd highest and this helped occasionally. But in reality the only reason I flew DL was for their SWU. Now that this is changing, I have started flying United and expect to be 1k by years end.