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Any of you good FT folks know where I can find out exactly what a pax can and cannot take on an aircraft in carry-on? I am particularly interested in info re scissors, knives, razor blades, ... Anywhere on the web that would have this information?
Thanks for any guidance you can provide.

I would hope that for security reasons, they would not have specific answers to these questions. I would hope that they would confiscate whatever they felt to be a security issue in a specific situation. My wife had some sewing scissors that were allowed on 3 legs of an international flight. On the 4th leg they were confiscated, but we were told we could pick them up at our final destination. Of course we landed there at 5:00 in the morning to huge immigration lines, and the last thing we wanted to do was to figure out where to go to recover the scissors.

Sorry Sosafan, gotta disagree with you on that. I don't want the confiscation of my personal proprty left to the whim of the security person checking me through. If your wife's scissors were passed through on 3 legs, and confiscated on the 4th leg, then either the first 3 places are dropping the ball, or the 4th place is not applying the rules correctly. I would want to know which it is. I don't object to placing my property in checked baggage, but I want to know what I need to handle that way. I don't want to lose something that I have carried on for 100 flights just because somebody at the 101st security gate decides on a different interpretation of the rules. The rules need to be clear and posted so that you don't lose your scissors and I don't lose my stuff.
'Nuff said.

I understand now that you 'hate to fly'. In my experience this 'working to the rules' is also a 'strike'. Checking-in in Bagddad, after the Irak/Iran war, before the Gulf-war, before the UN-sanctions, twice did the 'security' people take out and confiscate all my batteries (camera, calculator, portable radio).

I am glad, that at that time in 1988 and 89, I didn't have any Laptop (with recharchable batteries) yet ...

If passengers would answer correctly to the security questions, that their luggage has been unattended in their room or with a bellboy, or in the taxi or bus-trunk before check-in, the delays and queus would be unbearable (I did admit once at ORD that I left my luggage, unattended, during breakfast at my Hilton-ORD-room and all my luggage was searched for more than 30 minutes ... that experience made be (to use PremEx's wording) a 'Frequent Liar'.

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 10-15-2000).]

These are the FAA's rules (at least the layperson's version of them): http://cas.faa.gov/cas/these.html
Notice it doens't say anything about knives, so I am sure it's not an exhaustive list.

Before carrying my Super Leatherman in my carryon, I asked several X-Ray attendants, and they all said that it is considered to be a "tool" and would be OK. I have carried it on several flights with no questions asked.

Several years ago, I had a rather large pair of sissors in my briefcase, and the X-ray people would not allow it. I forget how they did it but it wound up as checked baggage - which I forgot to pick up when I arrived - oh well!

I would rather that people would err on the side of safety than the other way. Common sense seems to go a long way.

DD

One time many years ago, I happened to have a cordless Makita drill in my carryon (due to the fact that one of my tool trunks was overweight). You would have thought I had 200 lbs. of plastic explosives. Security came unglued. A supervisor finally arrived and told me it was because I could "take the plane apart" or "breach the hull" with that. They did let me take it on board...finally.

Somehow I retain the notion, knives with a blade length of "3 inches or less" are ok with the FAA and was shown this in print (I believe by a nice DL agent). My handy red swiss army knife nicely meets this spec.

Last year I brought a baseball bat with me to Europe as carry on as tt was too large to fit into any of my suitcases.
It was taken by the security agent in ORD who brought it to the BA counter. They discussed if I could carry it on board and the captain finally asked to have it brought to the cockpit.
They had it ready for be upon leaving the airplane.

There were times, many years ago at the height if the airplane hijackings, that myt son's swiss army kniufe was routinely confiscated and sent as checked baggage in a huge plastic bag. More recently I was questioned about my bags and their whereabouts prior to boarding in Zurich and the question about receiving any gifts to which I replied, no, led to the question whether or not I had received any chocolates which led to a very funny explanation about who is Rudi and how did I come to know him and receive such a gift. The agent was interested in FT and we all laughed about the modern form of internet -formed friendships.

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I've found International flights to be more stringent. Domestically, I've carrying on leathermen tools, tool kits, etc. But flying from Germany, I've been told several times to pack my Swiss army knife in my checked bags.

Sorry, double post

[This message has been edited by freefaller12k (edited 10-16-2000).]

naxos: gifts to which I replied, no, led to the question whether or not I had received any chocolates which led to a very funny explanation about who is Rudi and how did I come to know him and receive such a gift ok - I just call my 'manager' and ask for a 'celibrity' bonus on future 'contracts'. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

My understanding for years has been that knives of less than 4" length were permissible carry-on. For a couple of decades, I have been carrying a mini-knife, which is 3" total length, with a blade that protrudes 0.5" (yes, half an inch). Sort of a tiny exacto knife with one blade. Before I ever started carrying it, I checked and was told (once the laughter died down) that it hardly qualified as a dangerous weapon. I have carried it through at least 40 airports in Canada, the US, and internationally, and it has often been examined and then put back in the little pass-through tray, often with the comment that it's a neat/useful little item.
At our beloved Pearson airport las Friday, I was informed that it was a restricted item because it had a sharper blade than a knife and was therefore not covered under the 4" knife rule! Same response from 2 levels of supervisors. I either had to let them confiscate the blade or go back to the airline counter, stand in line, ask for this humungous blade to be checked through, and then stand in line to go through security again. So, I am looking for something in print that defines what permissible. Denying me access on the basis that I am carrying a dangerous weapon for a tiny knife with a 1/2 inch blade is akin to getting a speeding ticket for going 50.1 mph in a 50 zone. A ballpoint pen would be a more dangerous weapon than what they took from me.
I am all for security, but I am also all for common sense and consistency of application of the rules. First, though, I'd like to know exactly what the rules say with respect to sharp/cutting objects.

I occasionally carry one or two golf clubs on board a flight. Before I tried it, I called the airline (United, I think it was) and they said up to 3 golf clubs was acceptable as carry-on, but 4 or more must be checked. They seemed more concerned about overhead space than security.

I find it peculiar that they think you could hijack a plane with a baseball bat, but not with a 5-iron. Of course, I was on a domestic flight, not an international one.

At our product conference last week, one well-meaning exhibitor passed out handcuffs at its booth (I believe it was to illustrate how without their management product, you would be handcuffed to your server). The listservs are abuzz with people complaining that they were stopped at security at the airport leaving town, and told they had to either check them or throw them away. Since their luggage was long gone, they all chose to throw them away. No doubt they showed up quite well on the X-ray...
That's an odd one...

I'm just imagining all of these people going through security. "I, um, got them from a vendor. No...not a 'vendor'...I mean, I got 'em at a conference. A software convention...really. Okay, I'll just throw 'em away. Whatever you say..." http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

!!

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/8801/ub202.html

This is an interesting Q&A which addresses your issues. About 2/3 of the way down the page, the questions are about why the rules change from facility to facility and airline to airline. And it mentions the 4" rule as well. FAA links are noted as well.

Hope it helps.

This would explain why I've been able to get on with my Swiss Army Knife("Cybertool" model) the past couple times w/ no problem, although I've felt that each time was a slipup and I was just lucky.
Enough so that yesterday I shoved it into my rolley cart yesterday right before I checked it. We geeks do love our toys and this is a pretty cool one that I'd hate to lose to the capriciousness of a guard who suddenly decided to wake up and get picky.

Rudi, I suspect everyone at the Zurich airport knows who you are and they were just having a laugh at my attempt at an explanation. The good news is that the mention of your name did not lead to a more thorough search.

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Lmbrghini: that's an interesting reference you provided. Thank you.
What I gather it says is that the FAA has general guidelines, but the application/operationalization of those differes from one airport/airline to another. In other words, travellers can have no confidence at all that what they are carrying won't violate the (unposted) rules at a given airport. even within an airport, the application differs--it happened that the incident I started this thread with took place at the very same security checkthrough I had been through about an hour earlier (went back out through security into the main terminal for some food). So, that's an example of the same people (recognized them from the earlier checkthrough), same shift, looking at things differently depending on which individual looked at my possessions.

So, I guess what we have at the more detailed levels of what's dangerous or not is confiscation by whimsy (and, unfortunately, the Whimsies are a very large family).

I would guess that inconsistent applications of this sort are the basic building blocks of legal action, but that's not my area, so I can't say for sure. The lack of posted regulations seem to me to be pretty problematic.

When my family moved from the East Coast to the West Coast, we flew, and we brought our silver set on as a carry on. The security people at DCA wouldn't let us on the Shuttle with it... They pointed to the steak and butter knives.

I asked who had the final authority, and they told me the airline, so I asked to speak to a manager. The manager for Delta let us on the plane, but said the captain may request that the knives be stowed seperately in the front of the plane.

After we were confident that we wouldn't have to check our sterling to New York (sure we'd see it at the other end, sure we would!), we had a good laugh imagining taking over the Delta Shuttle with a silver butter knife.

Maybe the gate agent saw you on the golf course!