I'm curious whether the Concorde is a significant money-maker for the airlines -- I suppose it must turn a profit at $5000 a seat, but is the house always packed? Even with just a few passengers on board, it probably does better than a 747 packed with discount travelers (where break-even must be something like 60% full)?

Never had the chance to sit in one myself - any thoughts?

I have read that the days of the Concorde are limited. Apparently, the cost of flying the plane is too costly despite the high price of the tickets.

As far as I remember (but please merry flyer correct me): the Concorde has NEVER been profit-making. NEVER. But it has been HEAVILY subsidized by the english and french governement/taxpayer.

It was a tipical european revolutionary act (against the american airplane-production-supremacy and a project of pride).

Concorde is a VERY large profit source for BA.

The plane was subsidised at the time of production & Developement, but it has made money since introduction.

The flights are usually 90%+ full. The reason being that there are only just over 100 seats and BA will upgrade First Class passengers if they so wish and there is availability (I don't think they would admit to it).

Also if you have a connection with BA in LHR or JFK and are running late, they will put you on Concorde if possible.

I hate to contradict Rudi, but BA is a private company, it receives no subsidy from the EC or UK government.

Air France is sligtly different it is subsidised by the French government and although it is almost impossible to prove, it is widely accepted that its Concorde service is not profitable (less CDG-JFK traffic than LHR-JFK).

The days of Concorde are indeed limited, but this in not for financial reasons, BA and AF each have 8 Concorde and each airline uses one of those for spares.

The plane has out-lived it's expected life, they will need to be retired soon.
MF

BA is a better run airline than AF. My concorde trips on BA and AF were not all that different, and the price was the same -- so AF must be operational inferior to BA to not be raking in the dough. Although this is commonly accepted.

Phil

Maybe it's simply a testimonial in favor of the private enterprise system. I think we're beginning to see (probably not the politicians) in the US that private, profit-motivated companies almost always do things more efficiently (i.e., more profitably) than government, while providing equal or superior services and products. Of course, while I was employed by government, my motto was "Out-house contracts produce out-house results."

Interesting, Philforest. I am a government employee, and about a year ago, left one position for another in order to maintain my GS status. The place that I had worked is now contracted out, and I have seen first hand that the quality of service is greatly reduced. The employee turnover rate is extreme, and the contractors are managing it poorly.

Some years ago, County services also began to outsource, and once again, I found the services poor, in comparison to when the facilities were county run and staffed.

Also, remember that ValuJet crash? Wasnt the reason for it that ValuJet had been contracting out its maintenance?

I realize those are just a few examples of contracting gone wrong, and I am sure there are contracts that do quite well, I just havent heard of any.

At this point I will bow out of the discussion as it has become far to US political for me to cope with.

All I can say it that BA is way more efficient than AF.
MF

Sorry MF nuff said. Sorry for going off track.

Hay Catman, are you inpressed?

I think maybe the Concorde loses money because unlike the standard airplane it requires special upkeep, special staffing and
needs even more money to off top of the line
services. That's why that ticket price is so
out of control.

M-F: I hope you will bow back in soon... you have done a great job at co-cat-cop. Now I
hope PremEx keeps up the good work. CATMAN

The losing concorde is the Air France version. I know B-A has done well with all of its ventures.

And as M-F suggested: let's try to keep politics and all other inflamatory issues off
these boards. This is about travel. If we
want to discuss other issues go to the appropriate chat rooms. (Not my can of Pepsi!) CATMAN