Get Miles without really spending and without the TC hassles
 

THis is less hassle that the TC mess. I have actually done this and it works.
I discovered a service called paypal at http://www.paypal.com. My sister and I do this together.
I signed up and did the verification process. I then sent her $5 to her e-mail to test how this worked. It appeared on my cc as a regular charge ( I go 5 miles). She then transferred the $5 to her bank account. We have been doing this back and forth for a few months now and I am up to doing $2000 at a time. THe only limit is that each Paypal account can only do $5000 within a 180 day period. I have only been doing it for a little over a month and I am loving this. Once she transfers the money to her account she turns aruond and sends me money so she gets miles. I then cash them in and pay the cc bill. Turnaround for each transaction so far has not caused me any finance charges.
So far I have a little over 3000 miles this way and I plan to get more. At the limit of $5000 per 180 day period I figure I can get 20,000 miles for the year without really spending $20,000.
They offer a $10 signup bonus.
I will also get $10 if you signup and let me know so I can be the first to send you a penny. If you register, please e-mail me so we both can get the $10.

That's pretty funny that they don't bill the transaction as a cash advance. I know the CTO of PayPal (friend of a friend), and these guys aren't as dumb as you might think they are. Incidentally, if you are interested in how they plan to make money:
http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories...394658,00.html

Also I think that eventually they will sign up merchants who will accept fund transfers from them directly, kind of like an ATM network.

MEWANTMILES - How did you come up with earning 20,000 miles/year if the limit is $5K every 180 days? Sounds like the maximum you could earn is 10,000 miles/year. Am I missing something here?

Kim - you are missing that there are two parties here, 10K times 2.

Anybody tried this for a CC that is not based on US$ ? (i.e. the transfer to credit card or the transfer from cc)

[This message has been edited by SteinerboyCA (edited 12-13-1999).]

Sounds intriging. Can you clarify how this works. Do I register both a credit card and a bank account. How are payments listed on the credit card. Are they listed by the name of the recipient so it could be identified or deducted if a business expense. Is the money received automatically transferred to an identified bank account or do you have to do that manually each time. After a few of these details, I'll be ready to sign up and get you your referral fee mewntmiles.
Thanks

------------------
DtG

Went to the site. In reading the user agreement section, I found the following:

II. Responsibilities of Users
In order to become a User of PayPal you must register online. You must also read and agree to the terms and conditions of this agreement, including:

5. You agree not to engage in behavior that could reasonably be construed as providing yourself a cash advance from your credit card, and agree not to assist users who engage in behavior that could reasonably be construed as providing themselves a cash advance from their credit cards. Such behavior includes, but is not limited to, a User paying someone by charging a credit card, then receiving the funds back from the original Recipient and attempting to withdraw the funds from a PayPal account. Confinity reserves the right to reverse all such transactions and to terminate any accounts that are associated with such behavior.

It is apparant that they have served us notice they will be watching for this trick, and won't permit it. If we try it, we are in violation of our sign-on agreement (that is, no leg to stand on).

The transaction is simply listed as paypalon the credit card and is not treated as a cash advance. You register the card and tell them you want to use the CC when you need to beam money to someone or to transfer to another account. It is fast and easy.
As for the previous post about them watching out for cash advance abuses I don't see that this is a problem as I am not trying to get any cash advances

[This message has been edited by mewantmiles (edited 12-21-1999).]

[This message has been edited by mewantmiles (edited 12-21-1999).]

I'd actually signed up for this paypal initially at the outset/unveiling, but have not used it 'til now. I just completed the proceedure and expect an easy 5k miles and $10 bucks for the trouble of signing up!

Again you get $10 for each signup and $10 for each referral so it is a pretty decent deal. If you want to give it a try and use the referral too, great!


https://secure.paypal.com/refer/[email protected] http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Signing up takes a few minutes!


[This message has been edited by doc (edited 02-16-2000).]

doc .. I trust you, so I'll let you make that $10 ( for me too http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif )
http://secure.paypal.com/refer/[email protected] http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by Damian (edited 01-09-2000).]

I find this company very interesting. The concept is simple and easy to use-- and free.

#1: I SEE NOTHING IN THE SIGN-UP ABOUT GETTING 5,000 MILES FOR USING THE SERVICE. WHERE DO THE MILES COME IN TO PLAY?

#2: HOW DO THEY MAKE MONEY?


Am I reading the article right that the only money them will make will be from the interest during the time of the transaction?

Example:

On January 10th, 2000 I zap 'Jerry' $100.
PayPal charges my credit card the $100 as a merchant purchase. They take the $100 and put in into an interest gaining account.

On January 20th, 2000 'Jerry' requests that the $100 I beamed to him be sent direct deposited to his bank account. PayPal makes the transction.

PayPal, in theory, made their money on the 10 days that the cash sat in their account gaining interest?

What about their costs to charge a credit card-- approximately 3%? What about their costs to make a direct deposit to a bank?

It's an INTERNET company, they don't have to actually make money!

JustinIncredible - I may be missing something, but I think the miles comes in when your credit card (of course, it's a frequent flier card, isn't it ?) gives you the miles for a purchase.

wombat--

I believe you are right. You can only 'beam' or e-mail money up to the amount of $5000 in 180 time frame.

So, 5k miles every 6 months-- 10k miles every year which is mentioned in the original post.

usoftie: I'm wondering if you can provide some assistance. I would've emailed this query to you, but you don't have an email address on file. I have a friend who beamed me money over two weeks ago, and the transaction is still listed as "pending," despite the fact that her CC was charged immediately. We've both sent money to other people before without problems, but neither of us can get this resolved. We've both been emailing PayPal to death, and she's even left them voicemail (no live people to answer the phone). Thus far, nada...not even an automated response. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

Under the PayPal TOS, if you charge back an amount to them, it will be refused and you'll also be billed any associated chargeback fees. At this point she doesn't care about PayPal closing her account as a result of a CC dispute (since she'll never use them again), but she would like the money to either go to me as intended or be returned to her. Seems pretty reasonable! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Since you're in the know, do you have any other suggestions on how to resolve this...would you be willing to pass my email address on to your friend-of-a-friend, for example? Feel free to contact me directly to discuss this further. Thanks!

Don't forget that they plan to make money on the "float!" So time is on their side.

All kidding aside, hopefully this will be resolved quickly and amicably.

Carl:

I think you stumbled across the before-asked question, "and just how do they make money?". It now looks fairly obvious to this glad-I-did-not-subscribe observer.

And as for "BEAMING", money or otherwise, I always have been just a little suspicious of this type of activity (or anyone previously or presently actively promoting it). And is Mr Schatner really getting wider day by day?

Nah! It must be the wonders of cleaning my TV screen.

ps: I too hope you resolve it soon. Keep FT informed so others may learn from your experience. Oh yes, as previously stated, I dont do referrals. Never have.....never will. Dont do other types of pyramiding either. Not a respectable or legitimate way of doing business IMHO, also I dont buy bridges, only sell them.

Referral-based marketing is becoming more and more prevalent, like it or not, because it is highly effective. Some of you may be interested in an article I've written on the subject:
http://www.memecentral.com/mu/mu0033.htm

[This message has been edited by QuietLion (edited 02-14-2000).]

QL- Thanks for the link and info. While MisterNice makes a good point, which I've had a past tendency to even agree with, I think things are changing- perhaps even dramatically so. All companies have a problem or two or three... ut the real test is in how they resolve them!

Well, he's very correct that many referral-based companies in the past have been shady at best. But the physics of the technique are so powerful that it's bound to continue to pervade world business... just watch.

IMHO, Viral Marketing makes more sense than most traditional forms of advertising. Think about it: a company like X.com could spend millions (or billions) on traditional advertising or they could instead give everyone $20 as a new account bonus and pay you $10 for spreading the word while building a better bottom line. I know which method I prefer. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

As for the concept of beaming money electronically, it's not only here to stay but is really here to dominate. I've long argued that businesses should surcharge people for using cash. Think about it: the transactions take longer and it causes the business to incur all sorts of liability issues. Then there's the labor factor: think how much time is spent handling money in a typical cash-oriented retail environment. You've got a cashier who must verify their till before starting their shift and count it when they're done. If they take a break, they may have to put the till in the safe, which necessitates the need for a full-time person to be available to deal with those recurring safe transactions. Need change? Gotta have people available to do that as well. Then there's someone (or several people) to handle the daily deposit. Finally, you need to pay an armored service to pickup the money and bring you change. It's nothing but total inefficiency.

If you've been involved in retail, you know that cash handling is a huge part of your operation. Now imagine that same scenario if everyone is required to pay electronically instead. We've already moved a step closer by eliminating food stamps and replacing them with EBT cards. The next step is to start heavily surcharging the arrogant checkwriters (sorry if that sounds offensive, but nothing's more irritating than being in line behind someone that actually still writes checks and then takes the time to write a detailed description of the transaction in their register!).

No, it may not happen this year or even the next, but we're definitely evolving towards a world without currency. There may be a time when, instead of getting a paycheck, you may get a prepaid debit card containing your salary. No more wasted time rushing on Friday to stand in line at a bank, because there will be no more traditional banks.

Some of the larger banks like First Union have already begun this process (not necessarily in a user friendly manner) by automating the most common branch transactions. Want to open/close your account, ask a question, or check your balance? At many FUNB branches, you'll be sent to a phone to call customer service since the employees there only exist for cash transactions. There are even branches in some places with no human beings at all: you talk to the teller on a TV screen and put your money in a canister, where it goes safely behind a firewall. Sure eliminates bank robberies. Are these places fun to visit? Hardly. Which is perhaps one more reason why people won't miss going to banks.

I agree. SmartCards should really be the future of "cash". Refill it at any ATM using your bank account.

Had a Trial run of the 'Smart Card' up here.
People hated it because the money could be traced. When you downloaded the money from your account who is to say the bank isn't lifting info about you? The experiment did not work because people still wanted to do business without anyone knowing about it.
The other problem was that if you lost your Smart Card 'Mondex Card' you lost all your cash. People figured that if they wanted to use a card, the Debit card was just as fast and your cash was safe in your account if you lost the Debit card.

For anyone interested in my friend's dilemma with PayPal.com, I thought I'd give you an update. It has now been nearly three weeks since she first attempted to beam me the money, at which point her credit card was charged but the funds never delivered. She has now left eight voicemails (no humans to talk to) and we both have sent countless emails to them. Not even a single autoresponder from them. Nothing. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

I realize that the original problem may be isolated and some sort of bizarre bug, but the fact that there is no way to contact or get any response from Confinity is quite frightening. They make a point of throwing around big names, "Confinity is backed by the venture arms of industry leaders Nokia, idealab, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank" but that's like me saying I'm partnered with Fleet Bank because I send them a mortgage payment each month.

If you haven't already signed up with PayPal, I'd still recommend doing so just to get your free $10, but let that be the end of it. You can transfer money to friends in much the same way using X.com instead, where you can talk to a real person 24 hours a day via their toll-free number. Confinity (PayPal) doesn't even have a toll-free number, much less someone to talk to. If you haven't signed up for X.com, it's actually a bit quicker than joining PayPal (and NO requirement to register a credit card number and wait on a verification code to arrive in the mail). You'll get $20 for signing up and the option to earn $10 for each person you refer. I'm very pleased. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif

Paypal Customer Service: 1 (800)836-1859x1. I wish your friend the best - I have been having good luck with them so far.

Much of the difficulty may actually be "growing pains." Remember, this service is absoultely FREE and you get FREE money for just signing up! They have been swarmed! See: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000561.html

Has anyone used paypal to have the money directly deposited in your bank account or have you just been requesting checks that they say take 2 weeks to receive? I want to try sending/recieving some money now that I've signed up and was wondering what everyone has found to work best.

Thanks!

I signed up when it first posted under this link and have had no problems with it. I have to use something myself before I suggest it. Thanks for the info DOC!

If you'd like to earn me $10 as well as yourself, use the link below! www.paypal.com/refer/pal=sleone%40aol.com

[This message has been edited by Miles Man (edited 02-25-2000).]