What if ....
 

Remember the days when people PAID for first class and the service was impecable on most carriers?
What if all the airline head honchos woke up one day and said there will be no more mileage programs with ANY airline. You want first class, business class? - You pay for it and we guarantee the service (the type that existed in the 1960's, 70's). For those too young to know about this it was "white glove" service.
Seems to me this would fill the first and business class cabins with the true road warriors and not the mileage "grubbing, groveling" wannabe's for the $150 upgrade.
And, I'm not saying the "underclass" in coach should be neglected - good service (food, beverage, comfort, movies etc) should be upgraded to something much better than they get now (pretzels, 1 inch square milky ways, smaller seats). - I got better stuff from the worst neighbors on Halloween.
Does anyone see any wisdom in dumping ALL the mileage programs and going back to the way it was ?? Oh, and it wouldn't hurt if people "dressed up" like they were going to a better restaurant instead of always "dressing down". Any thoughts?
Yeah, you guessed right, I'm an airline employee.

Most businesses will not pay the current fares for business & first class. The "road warriors" cling to the FF programs as a way of survival -- it's our ticket to humane conditions.

As for bringing back "the way things were" -- fine with me, but the public has spoken. The cheapest fare wins. The premium products at higher fares did not succeed (remember TWA coach class with more legroom?). Without the price collusion of the pre-deregulation days, it is hard to see the kind of product you describe.

Pity.

This grubbing, groveling wannabe says NO.

Without the mileage programs, most frequent travellers would have no airline loyalty, and the mega-carriers, with their hub-and-spoke systems which the public generally hates, would not have grown to the size they are today (and might not have had a job available for you).

And I resent the "grubbing, groveling, wannabe" image.

an airline employee: the mileage "grubbing, groveling" wannabe's" for the $150 upgrade.

... it is those wannabe's that pay part of your salary ...

... and it is your airline that sets the rules ...

and they also said, "what idiots we have been making air travel so complex. Let's put seats on our airplane in all sections that are big enough to hold a normal human being. Lets make sure that flights over a few hours have those seats spaced out enough so that people can recline and sleep without slamming in to each other. Let's publish in advance the time when we want the people to be at the gate, the time the flight pushes back from the gate, the flight time, the time it is likely to land, and the time we will actually let people de-plane. Let's provide decent edible food throughout the plane, and allow those who want fancy dining and wine service to sit in an area where they can pay extra for it. Lets charge everyone what it costs to provide that seat, plus a reasonable profit, for every seat, all the time, 3 months or 3 hours before the flight. Let's only sell tickets for the seats we actually have on the plane. Let's make the airline commerce industry as easy and straightforward as say......buying paint from a paintstore........Nah!"

May each of us have our dreams come true in the new millinneum. Happy new year!

Gee, and I always thought that I was a paying customer, not a "grubbing, groveling wannabe." It's nice to know that my business is valued so highly by the people who's salary is paid, in part, by my salary.

I can only imagine (hope) that you are a young, immature person who has yet to learn the value of cheerfully providing quality customer service that is the backbone of most any business. If you are more mature then I sincerley pity you.

Do yourself a favor and get out of this line of work before you do some real damage; you won't last long with your attitude anyway. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Missy, I rather doubt that you can remember what it was like to travel with AA, TWA, PanAm, CO, and even Braniff in the 50's,60's,and 70's, when personal service was at a much higher level than today and load factors were probably 10%, yes 10%, one tenth, of what they are today but you cannot turn the clock back with travel any more than with politics (remember FDR, Harry S. and Ike?) or medicine (remember polio?). Your attitude almost assures that anyone depending on you for service and assistance will be disappointed and will have cause to be among those who post messages on these boards about "poor service." This old wanderer remembers the early days well - he has well over 3 million actual miles- and he too rather resents being called names but he's grateful for the countless airlines employees who do their best to serve their public, day in and day out, and, for the most part, do a pretty darn good job. Of course we could go back to stage coaches and buggies, surgery without anesthetic and slow speed dental drills, and outdoor plumbing but most of us wouldn't like to do that. Change or cease to exist is a rule of nature. The airlines have changed as has the equipment they (and we) use and this writer thinks it is, on balance, much for the better.

Nathan Detroit: Well said. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

misstree: In the early 70s, as I recall, PAYING for first class meant paying less than double the coach fare, not 10-20 times the coach fare. If that's what it takes to get good service, there's probably a lot of people here who wouldn't mind seeing that change. Of course, this would actually mean less revenue coming in and then employee layoffs ... Hmmm, maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Be careful what you wish for. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Flying on a domestic 3 class UAL flight gives a pretty clear picture of what fills first when you get rid of the "Grubbing, groveling, wanabe" revenue passengers.

Gee, I wonder how much more money the airlines derive from "Grubbin, groveling, wanabe" non-revenue employees?

Any thoughts?

I think your e-mail address probably sums it up best about your 'philosophy of life'.

You probably should find a different job...one where you don't need to deal with the public.

I'd be willing to bet at some point you've said, "this would be a great place to work if it wasn't for these miserable customers".

[This message has been edited by shadow (edited 12-31-1999).]

You are so right, shadow. One great benefit of insulting the customers is that they will eventually go away and leave you in peace.

When I agree with Punki and shadow, that's routine, but when Nathan Detroit agrees with me, that could only happen on the last day of a Millenium!

letiole makes an interesting point. From my recollection, here is a comparison of the price structure in 1978 and currently, for the route JFK-LAX (round-trip):

...........................................1978... ......Now

Full-fare economy...............~$1100.....~$2100
Discount economy/(APEX)......~$600......~$400
(if you could actually get it)
First Class.........................~$1700.....~$4500

Conclusion: The airlines have chosen (their choice, not ours) to replace the revenue from full-fare economy and first class tickets that hardly anyone pays with the revenue from a much greater number of seats (see comment above re load factor) sold at discounted prices under restrictive conditions. Most of us have learned to modify our behavior so as to fit the restrictions, at least some of the time.

Also: Airline profitability is the highest it has ever been in my lifetime, and UA, AA, DL, etc. do not even have to imagine the word "competition" most days. So to whose benefit did the changes in airline pricing structure and marketing philosophy accrue?

[Note: Had to throw in the dots in the table above to keep UBB from eating the spaces. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif]

[This message has been edited by RichG (edited 12-31-1999).]

Missy....would you like to come work for me at Chase?

Misstree:

Times have changed wether we like it or not, I'm sure that there are some who would like it if the Frequent flyer programs would go away, but the consumers wouldn't stand for it. (Remember the consumers, they are the ones responsable for revenue)

In the 'ol days F/C was the domain of those who paid for it, as well as employees, and people in the travel industry. Otherwise the only way in was when coach was overbooked, and the gate agent could select someone who appeared like he or she belonged there.

I would suspect from your attitude that you are employed by a major airline that has not had any "near death" experiences.

What if the airlines started treating passengers as PEOPLE instead of inconvenient cargo?

I mean this sincerely, and not flippantly. Do yourself a favor and find a job where you will be happy. Going to work when you dislike the work/customers/co-workers is just no fun. Life is too short.


------------------
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

The airlines should be grateful that their frequent flyer program is resulting in "loyalty" among their customers, after all, who among us is naive enough to believe that the airlines is "giving" us the frequent flyer points out of the kindness of their heart???

If the "honchos" wake up and decide that they want to throw it all out, sure no problem, just be prepared & mature enough to face the consequence.

I love the person posing as Beata or whatever her name is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, seeing that misstree hails from Queens, NY - I am not surprised about her attitude...
Just kidding, everyone! :-)
I am routinely paying over $1,000 r/t for 2 hr long flights - if I do get upgraded to a reasonable seat, occasional food, and decent service, does it make me a "grubbing, groveling wannabe"? Just wondering....

Posted this on the United board, but it's appropriate here also. Pay particular attention to what United says about the effect of losing just one percent of the Premier class and above would have on their revenue.

In regards to past discussions here on the UA board, I thought these statistics from United would be interesting to all. I'll quote the whole piece.
"Mileage Plus-
Frequent flier programs continue to be the airlines' most powerful marketing programs, influencing customers loyalty and carrier choice more than most other factors. Since May 1981, 37 million customers have enrolled in United's Mileage Plus and 27 million remain on file. Of these, 10 million members are active - meaning there has been activity in an account in the past 12 months.

United's Premier customers represent 8 percent of the active members, but generate 35 percent of the total transportation revenue. Premier members spend more than 6 times general members, while Premier Executives and 1K members spend more than 12 times and 30 times respectively. If just 1 percent of the Premier-level members resigned from Mileage Plus, the company would lose $58 million in transportation revenue.

In 1998, the different frequent flier groups generated the following percentages of total revenue.

General Members: 24.2 percent
Premier: 15.2 percent
Premier Executive: 13.6 percent
1K: 6.3 percent

While final numbers for 1999 are not in yet, they are estimated to be similar to 1998.

United's Mileage Plus is the largest frequent flier program in the world with 37 million members followed by;

American AAdvantage: 34 million
Delta Sky Miles: 23 million
Northwest WorldPerks: 20 million
Continental OnePass: 16 million
US Airways Dividen Miles: 12 million
TWA Aviators: 8 million

One hundred fifty million people around the world are members of a frequent flier program. Eighty percent of all members reside in the United States."

from UAL's Our Times, V5 #12 Dec 18, 1999 p10


[This message has been edited by ontherun (edited 12-31-1999).]

misstree: Ontherun recently made an interesting post on the United board about how much revenue UA's Mileage Plus program brings in and how successful it's been for the company. Take a look. I'd also encourage you to share your idea with the powers that be at your airline. I'm sure they'd love hearing your feelings on their most loyal customers. Could do surprising things for your career as well. Cheers

oops - just see that ontherun posted it here before I originally finished this.

[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 12-31-1999).]

1965-6-7, OTRD to Dallas (no DFW yet), Y $96,
F$118. Food and service in Y better than F today, F really very good. No upgrades; buy and fly. Admiral's Club put nice little sticker on your ticket envelop that identified you. FA's called you by name, "Admiral So and So." Passengers all well behaved, crew extra attentive. Different time, different world. Can't change this one, glad to be here, still find folks nice, helpful, doing their best just as we are - or should be. Heck, the bar has been lowered on everything so we ought to do our best with the cards we are dealt and, for goodness sake, don't make others miserable just because our shoe pinches or we don't like the chow.
Rich: must be the time of year - or century - or millennium - or whatever! I do agree with you far more often than otherwise.
Looks like we're coming through this once in a lifetime Y2K without the problems the doomsayers promised so let's all be grateful, say grace and a prayer for this weeping world, and go forth tomorrow resolved to love and serve mankind in the new century. May the peace of God which passes all understanding be your every present companion in this day and for ever more. We really are united as the children of one God and that has nothing to do with any airline but everything to do with ourselves and our neighbors.

Amen. Although, technically, Y2K is a once-in-many-lifetimes event! (Couldn't resist)

By the way, wasn't Frank Lorenzo from Queens? (Just making sure. Queens is a fine place. And you can get pizza-by-the-slice there. Just isn't as good as in Brooklyn or Manhattan.)

I find it amusing (make that laughable) that an airline employee who can fly on the cheap is upset at the "grubbing, groveling wannabe's" - gee, do we make it too difficult for you to get your first class seat? When you start paying full fare for your travel, then I'll be more willing to listen to your opinion.

JohnA,
I know you're upset but please read my profound apologies on another post in the BUZZ.
I do have every respect (and sometimes sympathy) for the true road warriors. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes for anything, having to fly weekly through time zones, weather and mechanical problems etc and still do business at the other end.
I feel I have earned the non-revenue perks and quietly (without bragging) accept them and enjoy them. If anyone cares, I can give you the downside to traveling as a non-rev.
So please, feel free to read my apologies.