May 13, 2013, 10:15 pm
Last edit by: jerry305
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Mar 27, 2017, 6:40 pm
#3857
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 198
A few months ago, I applied for 2 MBNA cards and had the rudest and most surreal experience. One of their agents was almost spewing at me...
"Why did you apply for two cards!!??"
Me: Because they offer different products, and I'm interested in each.
"Look, we already approved you for one card, and you already have a card with us!"
Me: *...* ummm...ok...
"Listen, we are going to deny you this application...and if you apply for another card, we will deny that one as well..."
Unbelievable.
The ultimate reason that I was given was that "the credit bureau has absolutely no credit history for you before 2015..."
This is an absolute lie, and I confirmed it directly with the bureau.
I called back to speak with a supervisor after and complain how I was spoken to...and while they were apologetic the decision still stood regarding the denied application.
And another data point of sorts.
I have never again been able to get the Chase Marriott card approved again (held it once before).
I applied every 3 to 6 months and I called them and asked them to reconsider a denial once and the rep told me that my constant applications were a flag of sorts and too cool them for at least 6 months and apply again...
Mar 28, 2017, 7:15 am
#3859
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, Bonvoy, Alaska, Avios
Posts: 1,290
I called the credit dept. and got nowhere. 13 credit card applications in one year. I got persistent and the fact I've got excellent credit, no debt and never carry a balance didn't count for diddly. 13 apps. 13 apps. 13 apps. Damm broken record with them.
I was told if I apply for no cards between now and June I might get a card. 3 months!!!
I am hoping for a repeat of the last card app. They denied me, accused me of credit seeking and to piss off. I then got a letter apologizing and I got my 3rd card.
Last edited by mikeycanuk; Mar 28, 2017 at 7:20 am
Mar 28, 2017, 8:31 am
#3860
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Programs: *void
Posts: 2,408
It's interesting to read this.
A few months ago, I applied for 2 MBNA cards and had the rudest and most surreal experience. One of their agents was almost spewing at me...
"Why did you apply for two cards!!??"
Me: Because they offer different products, and I'm interested in each.
"Look, we already approved you for one card, and you already have a card with us!"
Me: *...* ummm...ok...
"Listen, we are going to deny you this application...and if you apply for another card, we will deny that one as well..."
Unbelievable.
The ultimate reason that I was given was that "the credit bureau has absolutely no credit history for you before 2015..."
This is an absolute lie, and I confirmed it directly with the bureau.
I called back to speak with a supervisor after and complain how I was spoken to...and while they were apologetic the decision still stood regarding the denied application.
And another data point of sorts.
I have never again been able to get the Chase Marriott card approved again (held it once before).
I applied every 3 to 6 months and I called them and asked them to reconsider a denial once and the rep told me that my constant applications were a flag of sorts and too cool them for at least 6 months and apply again...
A few months ago, I applied for 2 MBNA cards and had the rudest and most surreal experience. One of their agents was almost spewing at me...
"Why did you apply for two cards!!??"
Me: Because they offer different products, and I'm interested in each.
"Look, we already approved you for one card, and you already have a card with us!"
Me: *...* ummm...ok...
"Listen, we are going to deny you this application...and if you apply for another card, we will deny that one as well..."
Unbelievable.
The ultimate reason that I was given was that "the credit bureau has absolutely no credit history for you before 2015..."
This is an absolute lie, and I confirmed it directly with the bureau.
I called back to speak with a supervisor after and complain how I was spoken to...and while they were apologetic the decision still stood regarding the denied application.
And another data point of sorts.
I have never again been able to get the Chase Marriott card approved again (held it once before).
I applied every 3 to 6 months and I called them and asked them to reconsider a denial once and the rep told me that my constant applications were a flag of sorts and too cool them for at least 6 months and apply again...
I called the credit dept. and got nowhere. 13 credit card applications in one year. I got persistent and the fact I've got excellent credit, no debt and never carry a balance didn't count for diddly. 13 apps. 13 apps. 13 apps. Damm broken record with them.
I was told if I apply for no cards between now and June I might get a card. 3 months!!!
I am hoping for a repeat of the last card app. They denied me, accused me of credit seeking and to piss off. I then got a letter apologizing and I got my 3rd card.
I was told if I apply for no cards between now and June I might get a card. 3 months!!!
I am hoping for a repeat of the last card app. They denied me, accused me of credit seeking and to piss off. I then got a letter apologizing and I got my 3rd card.
Thanks for the detailed reports. We've opened a significant number of MBNA cards in the past few years, but like you we are seeing each new recent app becoming more scrutinized, starting just over a year ago. Myself, I've never had to resort to shifting limits to get a reconsideration approval, but my wife has. And if it's not that, then it's the longer than usual delays in getting approval responses from MBNA.
Most recently, they silently lowered our limits of other existing MBNA cards, which we had seen last year as well, but this time they formally sent a letter to notify us of the specific details. What caught my attention though was the wording.
"Your application for an additional MBNA credit card account has been approved"
(bolding mine)
It's like as if they are emphasizing the "multiple" cards that we already do have with them (and probably can see I have over a dozen other cancelled cards in my profile).
And another irk is that the postal letter they'd sent had details of a huge reduction to the limit of my long-time SmartCash Infinite Visa card, which I actually do use often, not so much for groceries/gas anymore, but for purchases where I need the extended warranty or purchase protection, since it's not a card that I cancel and churn. I've gone from a one-time total credit limit close to $50K, to now less than $15K. As mentioned earlier in Feb, MBNA had also shut down some of our duplicate card accounts without any pre/post notifications. Just.Gone.
I realize people are still reporting being able to open multiple/duplicate cards with MBNA, but from our corner (and maybe it's a much different corner than your average bear's due to the longer history of churning we've engraved) MBNA are appearing to curb our servings. No more buffets for us.
People who are able to continue to hard-churn the MBNA cards, enjoy it while you can.
====
Chase cards - I would not try to churn them so quickly. Way too picky. Fastest we've churned is within 6 months after cancelling.
Mar 28, 2017, 8:32 am
#3861
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 198
I called the credit dept. and got nowhere. 13 credit card applications in one year. I got persistent and the fact I've got excellent credit, no debt and never carry a balance didn't count for diddly. 13 apps. 13 apps. 13 apps. Damm broken record with them.
I was told if I apply for no cards between now and June I might get a card. 3 months!!!
I am hoping for a repeat of the last card app. They denied me, accused me of credit seeking and to piss off. I then got a letter apologizing and I got my 3rd card.
I was told if I apply for no cards between now and June I might get a card. 3 months!!!
I am hoping for a repeat of the last card app. They denied me, accused me of credit seeking and to piss off. I then got a letter apologizing and I got my 3rd card.
Damn, I was well past 3 months...and then I did a flurry of applications....approved for about 5 and denied for 3.
I should have applied for the Chase Marriott first...
And like you, I have very good credit as well.
When MBNA started moaning about my high lines of credit that I already had...while still seeking new cards...I told them that they extended the high credits without even asking me if I wanted them that high.
I offered that they cut down the credit limits on my two existing cards and please move it over to a new approved card.
They didn't take me up on the offer.
Mar 28, 2017, 8:39 am
#3862
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 198
AT and mikey,
Thanks for the detailed reports. We've opened a significant number of MBNA cards in the past few years, but like you we are seeing each new recent app becoming more scrutinized, starting just over a year ago. Myself, I've never had to resort to shifting limits to get a reconsideration approval, but my wife has. And if it's not that, then it's the longer than usual delays in getting approval responses from MBNA.
Most recently, they silently lowered our limits of other existing MBNA cards, which we had seen last year as well, but this time they formally sent a letter to notify us of the specific details. What caught my attention though was the wording.
"Your application for an additional MBNA credit card account has been approved"
(bolding mine)
It's like as if they are emphasizing the "multiple" cards that we already do have with them (and probably can see I have over a dozen other cancelled cards in my profile).
And another irk is that the postal letter they'd sent had details of a huge reduction to the limit of my long-time SmartCash Infinite Visa card, which I actually do use often, not so much for groceries/gas anymore, but for purchases where I need the extended warranty or purchase protection, since it's not a card that I cancel and churn. I've gone from a one-time total credit limit close to $50K, to now less than $15K. As mentioned earlier in Feb, MBNA had also shut down some of our duplicate card accounts without any pre/post notifications. Just.Gone.
I realize people are still reporting being able to open multiple/duplicate cards with MBNA, but from our corner (and maybe it's a much different corner than your average bear's due to the longer history of churning we've engraved) MBNA are appearing to curb our servings. No more buffets for us.
People who are able to continue to hard-churn the MBNA cards, enjoy it while you can.
====
Chase cards - I would not try to churn them so quickly. Way too picky. Fastest we've churned is within 6 months after cancelling.
Thanks for the detailed reports. We've opened a significant number of MBNA cards in the past few years, but like you we are seeing each new recent app becoming more scrutinized, starting just over a year ago. Myself, I've never had to resort to shifting limits to get a reconsideration approval, but my wife has. And if it's not that, then it's the longer than usual delays in getting approval responses from MBNA.
Most recently, they silently lowered our limits of other existing MBNA cards, which we had seen last year as well, but this time they formally sent a letter to notify us of the specific details. What caught my attention though was the wording.
"Your application for an additional MBNA credit card account has been approved"
(bolding mine)
It's like as if they are emphasizing the "multiple" cards that we already do have with them (and probably can see I have over a dozen other cancelled cards in my profile).
And another irk is that the postal letter they'd sent had details of a huge reduction to the limit of my long-time SmartCash Infinite Visa card, which I actually do use often, not so much for groceries/gas anymore, but for purchases where I need the extended warranty or purchase protection, since it's not a card that I cancel and churn. I've gone from a one-time total credit limit close to $50K, to now less than $15K. As mentioned earlier in Feb, MBNA had also shut down some of our duplicate card accounts without any pre/post notifications. Just.Gone.
I realize people are still reporting being able to open multiple/duplicate cards with MBNA, but from our corner (and maybe it's a much different corner than your average bear's due to the longer history of churning we've engraved) MBNA are appearing to curb our servings. No more buffets for us.
People who are able to continue to hard-churn the MBNA cards, enjoy it while you can.
====
Chase cards - I would not try to churn them so quickly. Way too picky. Fastest we've churned is within 6 months after cancelling.
Do you think this matter?
And a few data points:
1. A churned Amex Plat that was refused points on the phone...just had the bonus points come through.
2. An SPG card that was previously churned as well...just received points.
And
3. A family member that I referred for a Plat card was required to physically present theirselves to the nearest Canada Post office, so that the staff there could "verify their identity" and confirm it to Amex.
The scrutiny is unreal.
This is a legit monied professional person with multiple other cards...who has never heard of this before....and neither have I...
Mar 28, 2017, 9:26 am
#3863
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Programs: *void
Posts: 2,408
JJJ, yes, I will cool it on the Chase Marriott applications and have for awhile...but I do have a handful of recent applications to other cards.
Do you think this matter?
And a few data points:
1. A churned Amex Plat that was refused points on the phone...just had the bonus points come through.
2. An SPG card that was previously churned as well...just received points.
And
3. A family member that I referred for a Plat card was required to physically present theirselves to the nearest Canada Post office, so that the staff there could "verify their identity" and confirm it to Amex.
The scrutiny is unreal.
This is a legit monied professional person with multiple other cards...who has never heard of this before....and neither have I...
Do you think this matter?
And a few data points:
1. A churned Amex Plat that was refused points on the phone...just had the bonus points come through.
2. An SPG card that was previously churned as well...just received points.
And
3. A family member that I referred for a Plat card was required to physically present theirselves to the nearest Canada Post office, so that the staff there could "verify their identity" and confirm it to Amex.
The scrutiny is unreal.
This is a legit monied professional person with multiple other cards...who has never heard of this before....and neither have I...
As I've written previously, Chase are pickier than other FIs, and many have reported that they will cite denial based on too many recent hard credit inquiries (< 90 days?). A few said they still got approved even with 2 or 3 new recent card applications, but it's possible that these posters don't realize which bureau was actually pulled for the the previous recent applications. To further complicate things, while Chase normally almost always pulls Equifax, they will also pull Transunion as well, and this caught me off guard on my Chase Marriott application, which was subsequently declined, but then overturned by a nice rep who just went ahead for a recon without me even asking for one. Gave me an all-time largest credit limit under Chase too.
Your Amex datapoints 1 & 2, are GREAT news!
If the family member who opened the Plat card has never had an Amex product before, then that is not uncommon treatment. But even a few existing Amex cardholders have had to do the Canada Post run as well, when they started to churn with more frequency, and thus raised the alerts in Amex systems about possible identity theft. Some can just answer ID questions during a phone call, while others may be requested to visit Mr. Postman's office, not sure how they decide who gets which treatment. It's not unique to Amex. CIBC began to ask me to present my ID at a branch after I consumed one too many cards in an unreasonable 'dining' period...it was my 4th or 5th CIBC card at the time.
Anyways, Amex doesn't have a brick & mortar for the new applicant to walk into, so they have an agreement with Canada Post to do the ID'ing of new/suspicious applicants on their behalf. It's nothing to fret over, just them trying their best to protect them....and us from those thieves.
Last edited by JJonahJ; Mar 28, 2017 at 9:57 am
Mar 28, 2017, 10:58 am
#3864
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: YUL
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 107
Anyways, Amex doesn't have a brick & mortar for the new applicant to walk into, so they have an agreement with Canada Post to do the ID'ing of new/suspicious applicants on their behalf. It's nothing to fret over, just them trying their best to protect them....and us from those thieves.
Mar 28, 2017, 8:58 pm
#3866
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,124
Apr 1, 2017, 7:05 pm
#3868
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 198
Hey AT,
As I've written previously, Chase are pickier than other FIs, and many have reported that they will cite denial based on too many recent hard credit inquiries (< 90 days?). A few said they still got approved even with 2 or 3 new recent card applications, but it's possible that these posters don't realize which bureau was actually pulled for the the previous recent applications. To further complicate things, while Chase normally almost always pulls Equifax, they will also pull Transunion as well, and this caught me off guard on my Chase Marriott application, which was subsequently declined, but then overturned by a nice rep who just went ahead for a recon without me even asking for one. Gave me an all-time largest credit limit under Chase too.
As I've written previously, Chase are pickier than other FIs, and many have reported that they will cite denial based on too many recent hard credit inquiries (< 90 days?). A few said they still got approved even with 2 or 3 new recent card applications, but it's possible that these posters don't realize which bureau was actually pulled for the the previous recent applications. To further complicate things, while Chase normally almost always pulls Equifax, they will also pull Transunion as well, and this caught me off guard on my Chase Marriott application, which was subsequently declined, but then overturned by a nice rep who just went ahead for a recon without me even asking for one. Gave me an all-time largest credit limit under Chase too.
Great info, thanks....and apologies delayed reply. Very busy latel...
And I am itching for that card but will have to wait just a little while.
Re:MBNA, they told me that they pulled from Transunion, and that Transunion reported that I have "no credit history before 2015."
If that were true, that could hurt my Marriott applications...but alas it is not true. The supervisor rep that I spoke to (to complain) even acknowledged that Transunion reported my history well before that and apologized for their rep.
Your Amex datapoints 1 & 2, are GREAT news!
If the family member who opened the Plat card has never had an Amex product before, then that is not uncommon treatment. But even a few existing Amex cardholders have had to do the Canada Post run as well, when they started to churn with more frequency, and thus raised the alerts in Amex systems about possible identity theft. Some can just answer ID questions during a phone call, while others may be requested to visit Mr. Postman's office, not sure how they decide who gets which treatment. It's not unique to Amex. CIBC began to ask me to present my ID at a branch after I consumed one too many cards in an unreasonable 'dining' period...it was my 4th or 5th CIBC card at the time.
Anyways, Amex doesn't have a brick & mortar for the new applicant to walk into, so they have an agreement with Canada Post to do the ID'ing of new/suspicious applicants on their behalf. It's nothing to fret over, just them trying their best to protect them....and us from those thieves.
Anyways, Amex doesn't have a brick & mortar for the new applicant to walk into, so they have an agreement with Canada Post to do the ID'ing of new/suspicious applicants on their behalf. It's nothing to fret over, just them trying their best to protect them....and us from those thieves.
It's new to me, but I can understand it...and still think it's a worthwhile hoop to jump through to vicariously pull points.
The deal I made with the family member is that they apply and get free lounge access for a year via Priority Pass...but that I get to use the credits and points to offset a trip that we will all take at a later date but which I will primarily fund. I of course paid the $699 fee.
On top, I got the referral, which was nice as well...
Apr 2, 2017, 1:13 pm
#3869
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 821
Right now CIBC have 2 Aventura card with 15K bonus and no annual fee, thinking of booking Christmas trip YVR-IAH, but I can't find out how much points I need for the trip, Max 35K?
Which one is better for this trip, RBC Avion or CIBC Aventura?
Which one is better for this trip, RBC Avion or CIBC Aventura?
Apr 3, 2017, 7:23 am
#3870
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kan@da
Programs: Anything with sweet spots
Posts: 1,790
https://rewards.cibcrewards.com/Travel/Default.aspx