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A tricky miles puzzle - need help solving!

A tricky miles puzzle - need help solving!

Old Mar 7, 2012, 1:31 pm
  #1  
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A tricky miles puzzle - need help solving!

Hi all,

I'm a relative newcomer to the miles and points world. I'm working towards a trip goal and I've run into a roadblock. I'd love some advice/help figuring this out.

Here's the deal:

My husband and I, plus our two elementary-aged kids, want to travel to Hawaii in April of 2013. For various reasons, we want to fly first class. We'll be flying from the SF Bay Area to Kauai, then inter-island to Maui, then back to the SF Bay Area.

Between my husband and me, we've got 160,000 Chase UR Points. We're planning on converting the points to United Miles, then using them for 4 one-way first class tix on United - either SFO-LIH or OGG-SFO. We don't care which direction we use them.

Here's where it gets tricky for me.

We're happy to fly any airline for the other flight. Again, we don't care which direction we fly (to or from Hawaii). Just need availability.

We've each got around 30,000 Avios (thanks, Nordstrom!), plus my husband has 100,000 AAdvantage Points (2-browser trick!) and 40,000 AmEx MR points. I'll have 75,000 AmEx MR points by May/June (Feb 29 offer).

I'm poised and ready to apply for another CC right now...although I probably shouldn't do another full churn until May.

I need to figure out how to get enough miles on an airline for 4 one-way tix. So far the only possible scenario I can come up with is:

1) Convert some AmEx MR points to Avios (looks like a first class flight on a partner airline - American?? - is 37,500 Avios...is this correct??)

2) Purchase 2 tix with Avios

3) Use 75,000 American miles for another ticket (could it be on the same flight as the seats I got with the Avios???)

4) ??? Need one more seat.

I know there has to be another way to do this. I just don't know what it is.

Do I apply for another CC and get a bonus? Which one? Do we need to split up and fly 2 people on 2 separate flights?

My other concern is that this process will take too long and then there won't be any availability on a flight. Sigh...beating head against wall....help!!
womanofaction is offline  
Old Mar 7, 2012, 2:06 pm
  #2  
 
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Originally Posted by womanofaction
1) Convert some AmEx MR points to Avios (looks like a first class flight on a partner airline - American?? - is 37,500 Avios...is this correct??)
Yes, it would be 37.5k one way using Avios or AA.

Is there any reason you're focused on flying UA? Note that Alaska is also a partner of BA or AA so that really works in your advantage if you're not set on flying UA. You could transfer enough UR and MR to give 225k Avios for 3 tickets and use 75k AA miles for the 4th, keeping all of you on the same flights and saving some miles in the process.

Note that AS flies between LIH & OGG to OAK & SJC
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 2:07 pm
  #3  
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Price it first.

On a short West Coast to Hawaii hop, you may find competitive fares (perhaps on UA with a paid upgrade to E+ if you need the extra room) and then play that stash of miles on a more lucrative international itin.

Main reasons I suggest are (a) the mileage requirements to fly J/F to Hawaii are high and generally considered a poor value for the basic service you get and (b) you actually have some decent Bay Area-Hawaii competition that might make April travel quite cheap without miles.

Just looking at April 2012, there are a bunch of itins for $400-500 R/T (many airlines) and a few as low as $358 R/T (Delta). Using Bay Area and any Hawaiian airport...OGG is usually what pops up.

Of course, if you really need the extra room that'd be additional...unless you get a credit card or something that includes E+ or the Delta equivalent(?).
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 2:12 pm
  #4  
 
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I have faced the exact dilemma as you describe above with my own children and come up with an unorthodox solution.

First with capacity controls, it will probably be difficult to find four seats on the same plane using miles, even if you book 11 months in advance. Second, the use of 40K miles for a five hour flight to Hawaii is a bit wasteful, especially if you might use them at a later date to fly internationally in First or Business Class.

As you may know, Alaska Airlines has nonstops from both SJC and OAK to both LIH and OGG. Their physical ammenities on Alaska may be a shade lower than American or United, but the high quality of the flight attendants more than make up for the difference.

Right now, the OW fares on these routes are about $650 OW per person.
Using the Alaska Airlines Bank of America visa you will receive a companion ticket for $99, which can be applied to the first class fare. There seems to be no limit on how many cards you can get as long as you pay the $75 annual fee.
https://www.applyonlinenow.com/USCCa...03888-713717#b

YOu can get one in your name, one in your husband's name, or a business name and yield two companion certs.

Using this approach, your costs would be:

Two application fees x 75 = 150
RT in First for two people OW 650 x 2 = 1300 per person or $2600 for two.
Companion fare (99) x 2 =200
Misc taxes = $50
Total = $3000

Now, lets examine the miles that you get in return:
320,000 miles saved on United or American, which could be used for several business class tickets to Europe, Asia or Africa.
Signup bonus for the alaska credit card: 25000 x 2 = 50000 Alaska miles
Miles earned on the flight, which can be credited to the Alaska or American FF programs, including miles for the companion fare 5000 flt miles x 1.5 FC multiplier = 7500 x 4 = 30,000

In summary, by using this strategy, you spend $3000, and get in return:

The flights, including our people in the same cabin (no capacity controls as these are full F tickets), and the ability to change dates without penalty.

About 400K miles.

If you have the funds and would value the miles for use at another time, this strategy should work very well. You could use your American miles one way and this strategy on the return as well.
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 2:13 pm
  #5  
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A few thoughts:

How many miles does UA charge for California-Hawaii in First?

AAdvantage miles are also redeemable on AS and HA; Avios are also redeemable on AS.

AA does not offer any direct flights between the Bay Area and Hawaii. If you redeem Avios for travel on AA, you will pay extra for the connecting flights to/from LAX. Better to redeem Avios on an AS nonstop from one of the Bay Area airports to Hawaii.

Amex occasionally offers transfer bonuses when converting MR to Avios. Keep your eyes open.

Getting four F award seats on any single flight at the lower award levels may prove challenging. Avios can only be redeemed for the lowest-cost awards on AA and AS.
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 2:29 pm
  #6  
 
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Go with Alaska...

I would also recommend getting 2 Alaska cards...pay for one first class and get second for $99. Especially if you are set on First Class...

Or use your AA miles to get a ticket on Alaska Airlines. We just did this flying from San Jose to Kona. I only had enough miles for 2 tickets from my Alaska sign up bonus...and had enough AA to get the third.

One last thing to consider. We have been going to Hawaii with our son (8) for the last few years. First we flew coach (purchased tickets) and then last year we decided to use our points for first class. We decided to fly over using points for first class tickets...but on the way back decided to fly coach just to save enough miles for another trip!

This year we are going back again to Hawaii. And I decided to not use my miles for first class this time. Yes, it was nice to have a little more room, but I realized if I just saved those miles I would have them for another trip!
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 2:31 pm
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Okay, great ideas. We're trying to minimize out of pocket costs and also we know we won't be using any miles to fly internationally for at least another couple of years, so we feel comfortable "burning" the miles on this trip and taking a couple years to build up another stash.

It looks like the Alaska Air CC with the companion cert might be a great option for 2 seats on one AS flight. So that's 2 seats, one way. Seems like you guys are saying that I could combine AA and Avios for the remaining 2 seats on the same AS flight?

Not married to the UA flight but it seemed easy to redeem 40,000 UR Points x 4 = 160,000 miles. Are you guys saying it would be too tricky to get 4 F award seats on the same flight?

Thanks so much for the help. I knew Flyertalkers would come through with some great ideas.
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 2:36 pm
  #8  
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Wow...that Alaska deal seems very good if it is indeed that easy. ^

Although I've typically been one to say book the cheapest coach seats to Hawaii because F isn't worth it, if I'm looking at ~$500 R/T for coach vs. a total of about $750 R/T for F, that's close enough to make me change my tune.

Especially given that you'd likely be able to select your dates and airports as you wish...
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 3:02 pm
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Originally Posted by womanofaction
Okay, great ideas. We're trying to minimize out of pocket costs and also we know we won't be using any miles to fly internationally for at least another couple of years, so we feel comfortable "burning" the miles on this trip and taking a couple years to build up another stash.

It looks like the Alaska Air CC with the companion cert might be a great option for 2 seats on one AS flight. So that's 2 seats, one way.
You understand that the companion cert option requires purchase of tickets and no use of miles. Don't get me wrong, it's a good deal but seems to contradict your desire to burn miles and minimize out-of-pocket.

Originally Posted by womanofaction
Not married to the UA flight but it seemed easy to redeem 40,000 UR Points x 4 = 160,000 miles. Are you guys saying it would be too tricky to get 4 F award seats on the same flight?
I don't think it would be out of the question to get 4 F awards on the same flight. Doing sample searches on AA.com shows many dates with 4 F seats available on AS flights between the bay area & Hawaii.

Originally Posted by womanofaction
Okay, great ideas. We're trying to minimize out of pocket costs...
Another question, are you married to flying F? Like others here have suggested, fares between the bay area and Hawaii are often cheap. Even if you'd rather not pay cash, you could get 4 RT tickets in coach for 100k Avios and save most of your UR points for hotels as well as having the AA miles available to transfer to hhonors if desired.

I've flown F several times to the west coast as a non-rev airline employee but would never pay cash or miles for the priviledge as I'm perfectly fine in coach even being 6'4" and big.

Originally Posted by guv1976
Amex occasionally offers transfer bonuses when converting MR to Avios. Keep your eyes open.
Definitely keep your eyes out for this if you decide to go the route of transferring to Avios! Wait until you're ready to book before doing the transfer.
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 3:26 pm
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Do they serve (decent) food in F on AA to Hawaii?
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 3:47 pm
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Originally Posted by michael_v
Do they serve (decent) food in F on AA to Hawaii?
I can only speak for HA but I would say yes, food is good/decent but not memorable.
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 6:08 pm
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Personally I wouldn't even burn miles for domestic F to Hawaii from the eastern U.S., and especially not from the Bay Area. West coast to HA is such a short flight and domestic F isn't really anything to get excited about. Even if you won't fly international for a year or two, you might find it worthwhile to save a bit of miles for when it would be a better return on investment. Just my thoughts.

UA miles are useful for inter-island on HA, too, at 5K one way, if you're so inclined.
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Old Mar 7, 2012, 10:00 pm
  #13  
 
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excellent suggestion.
This is what I am planning to do for my family of 4. Already have 2 companion certs on Alaska from BoA cards.

Originally Posted by macfadsj
I have faced the exact dilemma as you describe above with my own children and come up with an unorthodox solution.

First with capacity controls, it will probably be difficult to find four seats on the same plane using miles, even if you book 11 months in advance. Second, the use of 40K miles for a five hour flight to Hawaii is a bit wasteful, especially if you might use them at a later date to fly internationally in First or Business Class.

As you may know, Alaska Airlines has nonstops from both SJC and OAK to both LIH and OGG. Their physical ammenities on Alaska may be a shade lower than American or United, but the high quality of the flight attendants more than make up for the difference.

Right now, the OW fares on these routes are about $650 OW per person.
Using the Alaska Airlines Bank of America visa you will receive a companion ticket for $99, which can be applied to the first class fare. There seems to be no limit on how many cards you can get as long as you pay the $75 annual fee.
https://www.applyonlinenow.com/USCCa...03888-713717#b

YOu can get one in your name, one in your husband's name, or a business name and yield two companion certs.

Using this approach, your costs would be:

Two application fees x 75 = 150
RT in First for two people OW 650 x 2 = 1300 per person or $2600 for two.
Companion fare (99) x 2 =200
Misc taxes = $50
Total = $3000

Now, lets examine the miles that you get in return:
320,000 miles saved on United or American, which could be used for several business class tickets to Europe, Asia or Africa.
Signup bonus for the alaska credit card: 25000 x 2 = 50000 Alaska miles
Miles earned on the flight, which can be credited to the Alaska or American FF programs, including miles for the companion fare 5000 flt miles x 1.5 FC multiplier = 7500 x 4 = 30,000

In summary, by using this strategy, you spend $3000, and get in return:

The flights, including our people in the same cabin (no capacity controls as these are full F tickets), and the ability to change dates without penalty.

About 400K miles.

If you have the funds and would value the miles for use at another time, this strategy should work very well. You could use your American miles one way and this strategy on the return as well.
ayya is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2012, 7:50 am
  #14  
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@:-) Hmmmm. @:-)

Alaska is starting service from MCI this month.

BofA is a bank that I haven't yet churned the crap out of. I can tell I'm firmly on the Chase sh**list because they don't spam my mailbox anymore. Same with Capital One. But BofA deluges me at least weekly with offers. So does Citi.

Thinking I need to head over to the AS board and see what the best signup bonuses are.
pinniped is offline  
Old Mar 8, 2012, 10:48 am
  #15  
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Okay, rethinking.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help. Going back to my laboratory to figure out my next move.
womanofaction is offline  

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