QL_714

Ouch now that really hurt. Since you and your REAL buddy like to constantly play the last word game go ahead and have it. I know you can’t resist!

retiarius

If the IRS begins enforcing that miles have a fair market value
of 2 1/2 cents each, then the solution for some may be to donate them
to charity. For example, in high tax states like California and New York,
combined fed + state tax rates can exceed 40%, so perhaps they
are worth a penny per mile when donated, or about what they are
worth as the Delta or United "bid price" for their respective
"pay with miles" programs.

FWAAA

Citi is motivated to report a high value on the 1099s for the deposit accounts (where the miles are the same as interest) in order to avoid IRS penalties for undervaluing the miles awarded as interest.

I haven't looked at the Code and Regulations on this issue recently, but I doubt the tax code penalizes payors for overvaluing the property paid as interest like it would if the payor undervalued the property. So Citi fulfills its obligations under the 1099 rules by submitting an outlandishly high retail value for something it bought from AA for probably a penny a mile or so. And if the taxpayer (Citi's customer) disputes the value, then the customer is free to argue with the IRS over the valuation of the miles, the same way you're free to argue with the IRS over any other non-cash income that is reported to the IRS.

If you win a new car in a contest, does your 1099 show the sticker price, the invoice price or some other price? Most contest sponsors send the IRS and the winners 1099s that show the approximate retail value (ARV) of the prize and leave the argument over valuation to the winner and the IRS.

Again, you're free to argue valuation with the IRS, but Citi couldn't care less about your disagreement over the value of the miles. It's satisfied its tax obligation.

In light of all this, bonus miles from credit card issuance looks like a much better deal since Citi does not report those miles as income (as they are a rebate as discussed above).

Happy

delete. duplicate post.

Happy

Actually AA did. And it is not something just happened - in that thread I unearthed, someone reported he won 100K miles from a Supermarket contest and he received a tax owed valued those miles at 0.02.

I searched FT about 10 days or so ago and unearthed a thread started in 2002 about a guy who won the grand prize and was told he would get a 1099. I posted the link of that old thread on the other concurring 1099 related thread right on this forum.

Here you go - the search results are posted in my post on the 5K Saving Account Bonus thread where people reporting receiving 1099.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15805922-post243.html

Excerpt of my post:

In 2002:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...nner-aa-4.html

1099 issued for $20,000 for his 1 million miles.

This thread has lots of instances from different merchants on the taxable value of miles. Plus a poster seemed to be an IRS agent and posted the view point in that capacity. Y'all may want to really read the post no.53 of the above thread.

It is just too bad the OP of that thread did not come back to update the situation after he posted he would have an appointment with his accountant the next day and would inform the readers of the outcome. Well, he never came back to tell people what the accountant said!

Another thread that is dated in 2005, AA valued the winning at 0.25 a mile.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...eepstakes.html

I also remember reading a story way way back about a guy bitterly turned down the sweepstakes winning of 1 million miles because it would cost him a huge tax bill. He wrote an article on it, titled as "Why I turned down the sweepstakes grand prize" or something like that. That was like a year or more after his winning and unsuccessfully tried to avoid the tax liability.

So the option to negate the tax bill is to give up the miles. But it is probably not easily done with Citi versus a sweepstake winning with AA.

FWAAA

Here's a thread discussing a guy who refused an AA prize of 12 round-trip tickets that AA valued at a stunning $52,000:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...-declines.html

When you win a non-cash prize (car, motorcycle, house, etc) in a contest, in certain cases, the contest sponsors must collect 20% of the value from the winner and remit it to the IRS as withholding. That causes non-cash prizes to be turned down rather frequently, especially when the contest sponsor provides an alternate cash prize (which is always accepted).

JudyJFLA

I closed my account in protest yesterday. I had to get the balance below $2K before they would mail a check.

JudyJFLA

mfidelity

I closed down my Citi checking account today as well. I met the T&C's but luckily the bonus miles haven't posted yet. Not worth the tax headache next year.

thehawk75

Thanks for the stroll down memory lane

Actually since I wasn't a member of FT at the time, more like a history lesson.

I've actually spent a few hours reading those old threads, interesting stuff. I actually remember that AA contest for the 12 round trip tickets. I think I'd forfeit the prize as well had I won.

GUWonder

... a tidal wave avoidable or not by people asking for the bank and/or AA to reverse the mileage credit and remove the AA miles from their account?

GUWonder

"Non-cash income that is reported to the IRS" = reported cash value equivalent of income (ordinary or otherwise) paid by means other than cash currency, negotiable instrument denominated in currency or other item or instrument with a value given in currency-denominated amounts?

I ask this question because I'm curious if it would be acceptable to the IRS for a non-governmental party to actually report to the IRS "AA miles" as income in mileage denominated amounts without providing a USD currency-equivalent value.

gunpig

I can't find the exact post but it has been mentioned to list the full value of the 1099 and then discount it as nominee interest to bring the value to whatever level you can justify should uncle sam question you on it.

My question is that a 1096 is normally required when you designate a nominee and the creation of another 1099 is necessary to let the IRS know who actually is responsible for the interest. Do you just skip this process (mark nominee without actually submitting a new 1099) or even better, how about creating a 1099-INT for interest income (naing citi) and mailing it back to citi. Now they have a tax liability

Thoughts on how to proceed here?

Unitedsux

I believe you are correct. You can deduct depreciation and I have done so in the past when I have received the full retail price for something and I just went online and found the identical number at a lower price and just used that price and saved a copy just in case.

Andy2

Oh, giving a 1099 to Citi, THAT would be fun. But there are penalties for issuing frivolous 1099s.

I really wasn't thinking of nominee interest, I was using an analogy. You are correct that nominee interest raises issues relating to us issuing 1099s.

The examples provided in the links to the other threads provide examples in the 1099-MISC scenario. The examples show a description next to the subtraction of "FMV adjustment for gift" or something like that. You should read it before proceeding. I wish there weren't three threads on this topic. There isn't specific wording for a subtraction of Schedule B for interest income.

There are examples of subtractions on Schedule B that don't require the issuance of 1099s by the person taking the subtraction. Accrued Interest Purchased on Taxable Bonds is an example. So I don't personally think the existence of a valid line on Schedule B with a valid negative amount is a red
flag if a proper description is given.

laurajoyce

I find this incredibly irritating and plan to close my account this week. I earned the first 15k at some point last year but have yet to receive a 1099. Should I still expect it? (We're sending our tax info off this week to the accountant)

Does anyone have the address/email of someone to whom we could write to complain about this policy? I'd like for them to know why I'm closing my account--beyond just telling the branch manager.