Sagy

Because I can take advantage of the status next year. However, because the fun/experience aspect of the trip is gone and you are probably not going to get bonus miles either the price of these miles are likely to be in a price that is not attractive to the airlines. Where the valuation of the OP makes sense is for rounding up to the next level, but I think that even that will be worth no more than 10 cents.

A related issue is that if the airlines sale too many EQM then the value of status will go down since more people will go after a limited amount of benefits. This in turn will make the value of these miles lower.

josephstern

I think airlines are reluctant because they see it as gaming the system. No company wants to be gamed; it presumes they're getting the bad end of the deal.

Further, customers would then want a discount for not flying. That would raise many, many more issues.

I just don't think it's as cut and dried and unemotional as economics.

Evan!

US Airways already sells status outright: Buy up to Preferred.

Delta sells elite qualification miles (MQMs) indirectly to customers via via Amex sign-up bonuses, spending thresholds, Hilton stays, charitable donations, etc.

So why would anyone do a MR on either US or DL? Simple fact: $$$$ With both airlines you earn RDMs not just EQMs. Also, the selling outright of elite miles is most likely going to price out higher than doing a MR. If DL were to sell MQMs in 50-mile chunks how much should they charge? A 50-mile chunk could very well bring someone from an elite level that earns a lot less than the next higher level. So how much is that 50-mile chunk worth?

Because AA originally based loyalty on DISTANCE flown rather than $$$ spent the legacies have been trapped in a system that rewards distance over $$$. This means MRs will exist as long as demand only warrants $200 cross-country R/T even though it's 6,000 miles of flying.

I challenge anyone to get an airline to sell them 6,000 elite miles for $200. On US it will cost you $579 for 6K... and one isn't even getting RDMs for that.

84fiero

Interesting discussion. I've not yet done a MR, but expect I may next year depending on what I have to fly for work projects. Personally, assuming the cost of an outright sale of EQM was close or only slightly less than what I could do on a MR, I'd definitely choose to fly any day. Of course I'm a (non-commercial) pilot myself so any time I can spend in the air - as pilot or pax -is truly fun for me...though UA Express' Devil's Chariots may be a gray area

Perhaps if I needed a small amount of EQM, and the price was right, I'd buy up. THat would be more appealing though if I were time constrained at year-end, for example, and just couldn't take time off for a run.

ma91pmh

Problem is itself economics... those who do offer buy-ups eg CO or US it is too expensive. Or with DL's Amex the opportunity cost of using the spend elsewhere is too expensive for me. With so many DBEQM options over past couple of years it has been too cheap to do the MR to get the EQM and the RDM.

I do agree about the time value too, plus comfort. So you would not see me doing multiple domestic red-eye runs over many days. I'd be happier doing longer runs on more comfortable products.

tom911

I think that's where you go wrong. I've been doing mileage runs for 19 years now, and it's still pretty rare to go over 2 cents a mile when you factor in every mile you bring in (flight miles, elite bonus miles, promotional miles for certain routes), or 4 cents a mile for base miles. Yesterday I flew a routing that brought in 10,600 miles for $208, just below that threshold. I think you'll find most true mileage runners (those that never leave airports during their trip) are still doing it pretty cheaply.

I doubt it. If I needed 5,000 base miles you're in the range of $500-1,500. Much easier to do another $200 trip somewhere.

Palal

That's too expensive. A decent MR, with some planning, can be had for less than 4 cpm, a good one for less than 3 cpm for it to be considered good. While I've only done one true MR, I've added segments to regular trips before, which brought down the cost to less than 1 CPM.

gmangg

I think most people would definitely fly because many of these mileage runs get done for effectively free. I mainly redeem for first class tickets to Asia from the US. I value RDMs around two cents. As a platinum, if I can get a $200 transcon, earning 10k RDMs, I have already broken even. Hence, the EQMs are virtually free. This assumes a valuation of the first class Asia ticket at less than $3000, which is pretty low, but I will not earn miles on that itinerary, etc.

FriendlySkies

Alright. I took a trip DEN-SFO-ORD-TVC-ORD-SFO-DEN in May. I got 6626 miles, and it cost me less than $200. The deals are definitely out there.

Time traveller

You have to ask yourself what is important to you - time, money, miles, status, free trips? For some people, their time is more important and would rather pay extra not to have to do MRs (in the form of purchasing J/F tickets). If you could buy EQMs, then this group of people would benefit the most. For others, you have some extra time and don't mind doing MRs at a steep discount to get extra miles so that you can redeem it for International premium tickets. For others having status is important and would rather "buy status" if they can (e.g. US Airways Buy up to Preferred).

oshelef

This is what I had in mind. If your time is valuable and you'd rather not be spending it doing the MR, then MRs start becoming expensive. If you'd rather not spend the time flying, but the MR is cheaper than buying the qualification then they might be charging too much for the qualification miles. Or not - they let those than know how and can do MRs and those that can't or won't buy.

As for super cheap tickets with promotions that is also gaming the system. I guess the airlines have to realize they are being gamed - but I'm also guessing that these are tickets the airline would almost certainly not sell anyway - so there isn't much of a loss there.

Evan!

Exactly. You just proved my point. A MR can get you 6K elite miles for $200. I don't think any airline would have sold you those elite miles for $200. The deals are out there... just not for direct purchasing of elite miles.

hfly

TK allows you to buy something like 10,000 status miles to top off your account if you fall short.

oshelef

Perhaps. And FriendlySkies has said that they would rather fly than not have to fly. So that's not exactly what I'm talking about. I guess the airlines make you fly the route to get the miles to discourage someone who doesn't enjoy extra flights or has time constraints from "buying" qualification through MRs. And for those like FriendlySkies there isn't much the airline can do...(assuming they would want MRs to stop)

ffI

I think an elite mile is worth about 5c
Look at US; Silver is 1000$, Gold is 2000$, Plat is 3000$, CP is 4000$ for max 1 year
= about 4 cpm for 1 year
When you get status in Jan 2011 from flying, you get status for 2 years not 1 year.

Delta MQMs are also generally worth 4c each = 5000$ for DM status, and if you get DM in early 2011, it will last 2 years almost.

AA EQMs and UA EQMs are also doable at 4-5 c each with MR
Dont forget that when you fly a MR, you get RDMs and EQMs/MQMs, so the actual cost comes much lower than buying the elite status.

Although somewhere someone forgot the effect of elite status and comp upgrades.
For me as a DM / CP to do a MR to retain status is very easy (all my transcons are upgraded with 100-125% bonus, for 250$ cost), so as I do a MR I sit in F, denying US/DL the ability to sell the seat to someone else.

I think if an airline comes up with a scheme for sale, it will do quite well - see US - they sell status, but the upgrade priority is based on THE NUMBER OF MILES FLOWN ON US the past year. So a CP lite will only get upgraded last and while it will impact the PP and GP, it should not affect other CPs.


I would if I was 1-3k short of EXP or 1K, because on most airlines the EQMs expire at once on Dec 31. No one cares if you got 100k EQMs or 130k EQMs for most airlines.
So here the levels have a fixed value and I would pay 30c each if I was 1k short of 1k.
(at 500 mile EQM minimums, I would have to do a short hop, spend a day and get the same benefit)

For Delta, it depends on where you are in the cycle of MQMs. if you are at 5k, it i snot worth much, but at 75k, it is useful to have a headstart to DM for next year or even to maintain status as PM the next year if the economy and job slows. Over 125k, it is useful to build a mileage bank as well. You never lose the value of the MQMs unless you do no flying the next year.