Forfeiture of miles
Oct 29, 2010, 1:22 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2
Forfeiture of miles
Hi All!
The airline customer loyalty programs fail to keep me loyal and equate to [ethnic slur removed by moderator]. Airlines argue that these programs are costly to maintain but this is not true. The accounts resides on a computer disk with high efficiency storage systems. The usage of points for air travel is managed and costed in favor of the airlines when they charge 25,000 to 35,000 points to travel.
Moreover, they leverage circumstances (military deployments overseas and periods of unemployment) to their favor in efforts to render the program ineffective by requiring forfeiture of the miles. American Express does not do this and I have earned well over 400,000 points on American Express over the years. Unfortunately, I have lost about 150,000 miles on these Airline programs. I find I have to have spend an inordinate amount of time tracking these airline accounts. I have to go out of my way to earn points to keep them current. Most people do not have time for this. Isn't customer loyalty about the experience? Should these programs be more in line with one's activities?
The air mileage programs are ineffective customer loyalty programs and they, in fact, have lost advocates. I equate forfeiture with [ethnic slur removed by moderator]
What are other people's experience?
The airline customer loyalty programs fail to keep me loyal and equate to [ethnic slur removed by moderator]. Airlines argue that these programs are costly to maintain but this is not true. The accounts resides on a computer disk with high efficiency storage systems. The usage of points for air travel is managed and costed in favor of the airlines when they charge 25,000 to 35,000 points to travel.
Moreover, they leverage circumstances (military deployments overseas and periods of unemployment) to their favor in efforts to render the program ineffective by requiring forfeiture of the miles. American Express does not do this and I have earned well over 400,000 points on American Express over the years. Unfortunately, I have lost about 150,000 miles on these Airline programs. I find I have to have spend an inordinate amount of time tracking these airline accounts. I have to go out of my way to earn points to keep them current. Most people do not have time for this. Isn't customer loyalty about the experience? Should these programs be more in line with one's activities?
The air mileage programs are ineffective customer loyalty programs and they, in fact, have lost advocates. I equate forfeiture with [ethnic slur removed by moderator]
What are other people's experience?
Last edited by aviators99; Oct 29, 2010 at 7:25 pm Reason: Ethnic slur removed by moderator
Oct 29, 2010, 1:25 pm
#2
In Memoriam
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Easton, CT, USA
Programs: ua prem exec, Former hilton diamond
Posts: 31,801
Welcome to Flyertalk.
There are dozens of threads about this spread out all over, including people who have lost hundreds of thousands of miles. Check most any of the hotel or airline boards for discussion about that particular program.
Outstanding miles or points are a liability for the program, so they clear off some of that by making them expire.
Personally I fail to understand why it's so difficult to have some activity into a program once a year or once every eighteen months, I always feel that if I can't do that, if I can't have at least one mile post into an account, I probably don't need to keep that account.
There are dozens of threads about this spread out all over, including people who have lost hundreds of thousands of miles. Check most any of the hotel or airline boards for discussion about that particular program.
Outstanding miles or points are a liability for the program, so they clear off some of that by making them expire.
Personally I fail to understand why it's so difficult to have some activity into a program once a year or once every eighteen months, I always feel that if I can't do that, if I can't have at least one mile post into an account, I probably don't need to keep that account.
Oct 29, 2010, 1:36 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2
Circumstances
Hi Cordelli!
When unemployed or when deployed in the military you do not have the option to flying or spend the money.
Moreover, I fail to see the liability aspect. If anything, it is only a financial cost that I already hit on. If liability is an issue, how come American Express does not have this issue?
I think the squeal, liability, is a red herring.
Jim
When unemployed or when deployed in the military you do not have the option to flying or spend the money.
Moreover, I fail to see the liability aspect. If anything, it is only a financial cost that I already hit on. If liability is an issue, how come American Express does not have this issue?
I think the squeal, liability, is a red herring.
Jim
Last edited by Geobub; Oct 29, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Oct 29, 2010, 2:15 pm
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Massachusetts, USA; AA Plat, DL GM and Flying Colonel; Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 24,233
1. Account activity does not have to involve flying or spending a significant amount of money. Buying something from a partner for under $20 counts. Using a few miles for a magazine subscription counts. So do many other things that involve very few miles or dollars, as discussed in the cited threads in the forum of each airline.
If military deployment is the issue, airlines are typically very understanding - in part because it's good PR, in part because they hire a lot of Air Force veterans, and in part because most of their management consists of good citizens and decent human beings - and will waive a wide range of policies for people in this situation.
If military deployment is the issue, airlines are typically very understanding - in part because it's good PR, in part because they hire a lot of Air Force veterans, and in part because most of their management consists of good citizens and decent human beings - and will waive a wide range of policies for people in this situation.
Last edited by gleff; Oct 31, 2010 at 8:22 am Reason: reference to deleted content
Oct 29, 2010, 2:16 pm
#5
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 391
Hi All!
The airline customer loyalty programs fail to keep me loyal and equate to [ethnic slur removed by moderator]. Airlines argue that these programs are costly to maintain but this is not true. The accounts resides on a computer disk with high efficiency storage systems. The usage of points for air travel is managed and costed in favor of the airlines when they charge 25,000 to 35,000 points to travel.
Moreover, they leverage circumstances (military deployments overseas and periods of unemployment) to their favor in efforts to render the program ineffective by requiring forfeiture of the miles. American Express does not do this and I have earned well over 400,000 points on American Express over the years. Unfortunately, I have lost about 150,000 miles on these Airline programs. I find I have to have spend an inordinate amount of time tracking these airline accounts. I have to go out of my way to earn points to keep them current. Most people do not have time for this. Isn't customer loyalty about the experience? Should these programs be more in line with one's activities?
The air mileage programs are ineffective customer loyalty programs and they, in fact, have lost advocates. I equate forfeiture with [ethnic slur removed by moderator].
What are other people's experience?
The airline customer loyalty programs fail to keep me loyal and equate to [ethnic slur removed by moderator]. Airlines argue that these programs are costly to maintain but this is not true. The accounts resides on a computer disk with high efficiency storage systems. The usage of points for air travel is managed and costed in favor of the airlines when they charge 25,000 to 35,000 points to travel.
Moreover, they leverage circumstances (military deployments overseas and periods of unemployment) to their favor in efforts to render the program ineffective by requiring forfeiture of the miles. American Express does not do this and I have earned well over 400,000 points on American Express over the years. Unfortunately, I have lost about 150,000 miles on these Airline programs. I find I have to have spend an inordinate amount of time tracking these airline accounts. I have to go out of my way to earn points to keep them current. Most people do not have time for this. Isn't customer loyalty about the experience? Should these programs be more in line with one's activities?
The air mileage programs are ineffective customer loyalty programs and they, in fact, have lost advocates. I equate forfeiture with [ethnic slur removed by moderator].
What are other people's experience?
If one is unable to generate a single point in 18 months to their loyalty program, then in my opinion one is no longer "loyal". To loyalty programs, it mean current loyalty (18 months), not past loyalty. By any program's rules, the points belong to the program, not to the individual and have no value. so they can take it back, that is, expire them after a certain amount of time.
Besides I object to your use of the term "[ethnic slur removed by moderator]". I find this offensive. And I am not being politically correct either.
Last edited by aviators99; Oct 29, 2010 at 7:26 pm Reason: ethnic slur in quoted material removed by moderator
Oct 29, 2010, 2:42 pm
#6
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
AmEx does have the same rule. If you do not pay annually to keep your account active you lose your points 30 days later. They are actually much more aggressive about it than the airlines.
Beyond that, loyalty is about continuing to do business with a company over a period of time. Many of these companies have decided that the appropriate measure is 18-36 months. I'm actually OK with that. If you're not using the company in that time frame - for whatever reason - you are not showing them much loyalty. Just as I do not expect to get a good deal today from the place where I used to drink all the time in college like I did when I spent a lot of money there, I do not expect that the airline or hotel programs would think me loyal for coming back a couple years later after having done no business in the interim.
Beyond that, loyalty is about continuing to do business with a company over a period of time. Many of these companies have decided that the appropriate measure is 18-36 months. I'm actually OK with that. If you're not using the company in that time frame - for whatever reason - you are not showing them much loyalty. Just as I do not expect to get a good deal today from the place where I used to drink all the time in college like I did when I spent a lot of money there, I do not expect that the airline or hotel programs would think me loyal for coming back a couple years later after having done no business in the interim.
Oct 29, 2010, 2:46 pm
#7
Join Date: May 2001
Location: RSW/FMY
Programs: All, but no status!
Posts: 754
Yes, the airlines do leverage circumstances. And so do we! We can get hundreds of thousands of miles without setting foot on an airplane, by using credit cards, dining, Netflix, online searches, and the list goes on and on.
If you have periods of unemployment, what better time to spend at least a few minutes a week collecting frequent flyer miles!
I'm not sure what American Express points you are talking about, but I'd imagine that if you decide to discontinue your business relationship (such as by canceling the card), you'd forfeit the points.
Take a look around this website. There are myriad ways of earning and maintaining -- and redeeming -- miles. If you like earning points through credit card spending, you might be interested in the airline credit cards.
Enjoy!
Oct 29, 2010, 2:52 pm
#8
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 3,682
Anyone losing miles during military service should write the program manager seeking an exemption. I am sure one will be provided, either before or after a follow-up letter to a newspaper if it is not forthcoming.
Having said that, it isn't hard to track expirations. Mileage Manager will give you six months advance warning for their fees of $1.25 a month.
Having said that, it isn't hard to track expirations. Mileage Manager will give you six months advance warning for their fees of $1.25 a month.
Oct 29, 2010, 3:10 pm
#9
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: ORD
Posts: 277
If you find miles and/or status are something of value, then you will make the time to track them - it only takes a few minutes a month at most.
I don't get mad at the grocery store when my milk spoils because I didn't drink it all before the expiration date!
I don't get mad at the grocery store when my milk spoils because I didn't drink it all before the expiration date!
Oct 29, 2010, 3:18 pm
#10
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, NYC, somewhere on planet Earth
Programs: UA 1K, AA ExPlat, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 8,289
Welcome to FT
You will find that the people of this website have a lot to offer re: mileage collection and retention. There are also a lot of suggestions as to how to maintain your accounts active, with minimal effort, but as an account holder, it is your responsibility to ensure your account stays open.
on a side note though, your title is ethnically offensive.
You will find that the people of this website have a lot to offer re: mileage collection and retention. There are also a lot of suggestions as to how to maintain your accounts active, with minimal effort, but as an account holder, it is your responsibility to ensure your account stays open.
on a side note though, your title is ethnically offensive.
Oct 29, 2010, 4:59 pm
#11
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Also you might consider keeping the miles alive by, I don't know, using them to fly? If you had 150K at one point, depending on how that was spread among programs, you likely had opportunities to use them for a fair amount of free travel or upgrades.
There are different philosophies, of course, with some folks preferring to save up a large amount of time and others redeeming them frequently. Maybe you were saving them up and that's fine, too. But regardless, it's certainly not that difficult to keep miles alive. Nor is it that hard to keep track of your balances - there are services that will link and track them for you if you don't wish to do so manually. If nothing else put a red circle on your calendar with a note to check balances once a year.
I don't feel an expiration period of 18 months or more is out of line. And in most cases, the expiration terms are set forth in the program guidelines at the time you sign up so it's difficult to accuse the airlines of anything untoward.
There are different philosophies, of course, with some folks preferring to save up a large amount of time and others redeeming them frequently. Maybe you were saving them up and that's fine, too. But regardless, it's certainly not that difficult to keep miles alive. Nor is it that hard to keep track of your balances - there are services that will link and track them for you if you don't wish to do so manually. If nothing else put a red circle on your calendar with a note to check balances once a year.
I don't feel an expiration period of 18 months or more is out of line. And in most cases, the expiration terms are set forth in the program guidelines at the time you sign up so it's difficult to accuse the airlines of anything untoward.
Oct 29, 2010, 5:08 pm
#12
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP 1.5MM, Asiana Club Silver, KE Morning Calm, Hyatt Platinum, Amtrak Select
Posts: 7,161
I'm happy the way it is. 18 months of inactivity = loss of all miles, but any activity (like buying a music on iTunes) extends all the miles for another 18 months. Fair and simple enough.
Be glad US frequent flyer programs don't have a salami slice expiration system like other foreign carriers; you start losing the miles after the third year after it was earned regardless of any activity afterwards.
Be glad US frequent flyer programs don't have a salami slice expiration system like other foreign carriers; you start losing the miles after the third year after it was earned regardless of any activity afterwards.
Oct 29, 2010, 5:31 pm
#13
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Home Airports: CAE/CLT
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, National Executive
Posts: 5,452
Besides most deployments are a year or less, so you still have 6 more months to make up for lost time.
Oct 29, 2010, 7:26 pm
#14
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denver
Programs: AA, UA, WN
Posts: 70
If someone is deployed for a long time perhaps a friend or family member could help them figure out how to keep the accounts active while they are gone. There are usually people around offering to help-out someone who is deployed, and this could be done by anyone with the ff#'s and an internet connection.
Oct 29, 2010, 9:46 pm
#15
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MIA
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 493
Peter