Recommended max CC applications a year?
 

Please let me know if this has been discussed in a prior thread or if this thread belongs in another forum.

I've seen here and in blogs that if done right, CC churning hardly dings one's credit score. I'm trying to gauge how many hard pulls (from a CC app) is too many in a given year. I understand this is very dependant on the person, but trying to get a ballpark idea (1,2,5,10,20?) For the sake of discussion, assume a 700+ credit score, 10+ years of credit history, low debt-to-income ratio.

Seeing so many deals lately, I'm enticed. But I want to manage the credit pulls and subsequently, my total credit available, if opening multiple cards.

Although this doesn't answer your question directly I've had great success with trading a card I
have for one I want and reaping the rewards. Say Chase has a Continental card you want and
you have another Chase card you are willing to give up. Fill out the ap for the Continental card,
if you get it then your work is done. If not call and speak with Chase and offer to trade in the
Chase card you don't want for the one you do. Has never failed for me, the benefits follow the
new card and it does minimize having too many open cards. One more thing, the card you are
willing to give up will need to have a zero balance so plan on that if you attempt this.

So Grateful Someone Brought This Up
 

For seasoned pros it may be common knowledge but for others it's no fun doing this trial-and-error when the error is your first refusal. The tip on Chase is especially helpful since they have most of the array of free or cheap FT cards.

I've done 2 AA's, 2 SPG's, and the United in the past 5 months and I've taken a break for fear I'll get a "too many apps" rejection. This in spite of Chase telling me when I got the United that my standing with them was impeccable and they encouraged me to get a "full compliment" of affinity cards. I've had 8 Chases at once in the past. I really covet the CO, the Marriott 50K, the Sapphire 25K, and a few others. But I also want a couple Barclays and a couple B of A's. So I'm probably sticking with the first advice I got here- average 1 card per month.

Too much like a kid in a candy store. So many cards , so little time.

Wow thanks for the great tips. I signed up for the United but also had some hard pulls from a mortgage and some other things a few months back. I got denied the Citi/AA in the beginning of August because of too many inquiries so I wanted to make sure I wasn't off to too a bad start. (Also heard that this Citi card promo is a bit more selective).

So sounds like a rule of thumb is ~1 a month for someone with a good score? Anyone actually track their score over time to see how it varied as they churned?

I pulled my equifax yesterday and only had a pull from Citi. I have recently gotten 3 chase cards and two amex cards but there was no inquiry shown. I am guessing that maybe since I already had cards with them they did not need to do a pull.

Or maybe they did not pull equifax. But if that's the case only 1/3 of your pulls will show.

Check with another reporting agency... you know the drill. Different CCs use different companies.

Yup, good to keep track of all 3 so you know where you stand before applying.

more ideas on using CC's to best effect
 

There are several resources to learn from, and this is an area that has huge potential for one who is willing to take their time, learn and be methodical about it.

If you work it right and have decent credit scores, there is no reason why you can't accumulate HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF MILES A YEAR at minimal or no cost.

First, the Chicago DO in mid-Oct will have a seminar on using CC's to best effect. Can't wait!

Second, Rick Ingersoll's book, Frugal Travel Guy Handbook, devotes a chapter to how to do exactly what you are interested in. He also has a blog, Frugaltravelguy.com, which has many posts about this too.

Finally, fatwallet.com has general tips and posts on CC's and how to use them.

No, not a shill for Rick, just a traveler who has benefitted from all his work.

Jim

Actually same CC can use different companies! :)

What I mean is, different people applying for the exact same CC can have pulls from different reporting companies, and the same person applying for the same CC at different times (just months apart!) can have pulls from different reporting companies. (At the very least, Citi is one that has had this much inconsistency.)

In the past 5 weeks, I applied for SPG, AA Amex, AA Visa, Chase Co, Chase UA, Chase Sapphire. I received 3 cards, 4 approvals, 1 decline, and 1 still pending. Erm ... what can I say, I really want to travel and I want to travel now now now ... ahem.

I didn't check my credit score before the start of all the cc applications but I did check on Aug 21 and then just today and mine actually INCREASED 5 points to 744 since last time. Something about low credit card utilization -- low percentage of usage compared to available credit. That could also be because I just paid the cc bills too though.

Edit: Thanks for all the warm welcomes if I didn't mention it beforehand on other threads.

Since debt utilization ratio is part of your credit score, a significant increase to your total available credit would lower your debt utilization % and thus positively affect your score. My guess is your score was higher prior to you applying for those cards. The inquiries lowered it to what you saw on Aug 21 before the positive effect of the utilization ratio kicked in.

10-30 applications per year should be doable for most people with the OP's profile.

Will it hurt the credit score? Yes

Will it make someone no longer credit worthy? No

If done well, those 10-30 applications per year should net $5K-$20K of additional anual income/rewards.

I would love to be able to do 30 a year. I have a 775 and great credit.

This is certainly true, the variable that you didn't mention that has a significant impact is where the applicant is located. I would not be surprised at all to see a creditor pull a report from 3 different credit bureaus for 3 people applying for the same credit card if one of the applications was located in Cali, one in Kansas, and one in DC.

BUT, if all 3 were located in the same city/area I would be more surprised if the creditor did not use the same credit bureau.

Last year, when you could churn the citi AA, the rule of thumb was 6 inquiries within the last 6 months. So, I was running 1 app per month. If you didn't time it right, citi would turn you down for too many inquiries. Of course, this was Citi only.

If the apps are approved they show up as new accounts on all reports.

I've heard that several recent inquiries worry companies because they assume there's new accounts they're not seeing yet. The indication then is that new accounts show on all reports within a certain time.

I can understand why companies would be concerned about the amounts of lines of credit they are not yet seeing on reports.

It seems like they all rotate between Experian and Equifax most places. And sometimes business cards inquiries don't show.

But averaging 1 per month plays it safe. (Maybe too safe).

But that's what I meant. There seems to be a mythology out there that there's consistency within a state, but in examing my own credit reports, I've found (at least with Citi) that there's not even consistency at the very same street address!

One theory I saw proposed in some thread or other is that Citi buys the license to do these pulls in bulk from the various reporting agencies, and that sometimes they run out of funds in one but have plenty left in one of the others, so temporarily may shift people to another.

So it may be dependent on the phase of the moon! :)

Having said all that, since "the jig is up" change about a year ago, I have stopped applying for Citi cards on a nearly one/month basis, so no longer have current data on this. My data is from a year or two ago. Still, it's enough to counter the theory that it's always consistent within a state.

FWIW- Just checked my free Experian report from AmEx and all my pulls were on it (I'm in DC). There was no SPG biz card pull but I assume they did one for personal & biz. Citi was on for two personals but biz was missing. Again either one pull for both or biz accounts don't show on personal credit accounts. Chase was also on it.

I like CreditKarma (TransUnion) but in DC almost every pull seems to be on Experian. Very limiting and why the free AmEx report is good.

There really doesn't seem be any rhyme or reason when it comes to credit related issues...

really????i think 30 applications would be a bit too much....

Good reference
 

I found a pretty good post about how
many CC's and how often and figured I'd list it here for reference in case anyone else comes here with the same question.

Frugal Travel Guy has a good description of his churning method on his posts on 12/14/09 and 12/15/09. He tries to do 6 a quarter, of those, 2 from each credit agency (experian, equifax, transunion) so as to not bump inquiries too high. Credit agency is checked by state on credit
pull db over at creditboards.

Great find...with this strategy, it seems like 30 wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

Great advice, good thread. I find the information very helpful, I too am interested in racking up the free trips.

Some on FT have done it and gotten away with it.

Does it hurt a good score? Yes

Does it ruin your credit? If done wisely, no.

$5K - $15K of rewards can be well worth it!

That information might have been posted before Citi cracked down on churning.

i don't doubt the fact that some on ft must have done this....but i still feel 30 a year would be a bit on the higher side....