Yep. That's pretty much the norm what I've seen. KLM availablity isn't anything to write home about either (out of SEA). AF was the only one that had decent availability to Europe and that is vanishing now that DL is flying SEA-CDG. :td:

at least you are SEA based and can use AS.

Yes, but it's cheaper to redeem BA now on AS flights. Only time I would redeem skypesos on AS is when a connection is required. Skypesos value comes from redeeming for international biz and DL has put a major dent in availability from SEA by taking over SEA-CDG in mid March. I suppose one can fly to LAX on AS and connect on AF, but that's not something I want to endure before or after a long transatlantic flight.

It's a bit humorous to see people so clearly defending their airline of choice, while overlooking the obvious. None of the programs are as good as they once were. None of the airlines are as good as they once were. We have all had our "lifetime status" taken away from us at some point. My dad was "Flying Colonel" and my mum and I were both Global Services which, when we got it, was given as a lifetime benefit, but they took that away too. Delta devalued their miles to an absurd degree, and United decided that domestic first should be given as a free upgrade to every Premier and their screaming children. US decided that nobody wants to watch a movie on a 6 hour transcon flight. American decided that having milk on board is a waste of money. And when I do go to the states for extended periods of time, and need to get between two US points, I pay the extra money to fly via YYZ or YVR or YUL to get the nice comforts of Air Canada.

I prefer to analyse the present crop of services than mourn the past. I do like to recall the past in a nostalgic way.

DL is bad for domestic redemptions.

Now, someone has said it.

Every time I book an international trip, and it doesn't come up right, it's almost always because the domestic DL sector is charging 2x miles.

Just redeemed this week, doing a Asia-US trip, with a LAX-PHX connector. International segments fine. 120k. If I want a DL flight in COACH for the connector, 40k extra. 80k for FC. Totally silly for a 350 mile trip. And I've even checked online, and you can buy a OW paid fare in FC for $250.

You used to be able to AS flights in FC without too much of a problem, but not lately. I think if you book close in you might find something. AS or DL is holding back FC seats, even more so than they used to.

I am saying it as well. Recently I tried to book 3 different tickets West coast - Europe, last week of Aug return Sept, and mid-Dec, return Jan. The only way to do it within 100K miles is a combination of AS - AF. Sometimes the dates didn't work perfectly, and when I tried a DL connection, even a very short one in coach (e.g. dtw-ord, or msp-sea), the ticket price went up by 40-65K. I found that F awards in the low level are impossible to have that far out, even when the calendar shows green, when you click through, the award becomes 80K. That is discussed at length in the Dl forum.

Wrong. You said to assume 50% international redemptions. For any traveler not seeking so many international redemptions, Delta can exceed even for non-elites.

If international is a big part of your interests, then sure. That's why a non-elite who wants a lot of international award travel and can't take much advantage of promos/credit card spending would be best off with US or UA.

Do yourself a favor and select some *random* routes (various airpor pairs) and various lead times wholly within the 48 states. See what the average mileage required is. Then calculate what it costs to acquire those miles. Let us know what you find. if 25K for first class doesn't appeal to you, then obviously that's a strike against DL, but I think you'll still find better value domestically.

Surely not. It's just one edge they have, and one that is especially useful for those who would otherwise have to pay extremely high last minute fares. I love being able to use 25K just a couple days before departure to go first class within the US.

You forced the assumption of 50/50 international/domestic. I suspect there are more Americans who focus on domestic awards than international.

Try a variety of routes (different airports) and dates, both close-in and advance, random not cherry-picking, and see how DL stacks up versus AA/US/UA. Let us know what you find. The comparison will be even more impressive if you perform searches using elite inventory for the airlines that offer it.

I'm too young to speak to the 1980s and some of the 1990s, but I know that I get greater value our of my Skymiles now than I did ten years ago. A huge part is the cost of acquisition. Skymiles are readily acquired free, or when not, for a cent per mile or so. Earning via credit card and transfer opportunities boosts this even further. Years ago, it would take 45K to go first class domestically... now I do it for 25K (or at times, 32.5K).

Clearly AFS needs to get out and travel more often - what about Aeroflot? People are clapping about their program every time their plane lands.:p