Nov 20, 2013, 7:48 am
Last edit by: Pat89339
Do not call the airlines under any conditions! This is the fastest way to kill the trick and bring unwanted attention to your itinerary! And do not post precious deals in this thread, this is by far the fastest way to kill the trick!
************************************************** ******
This is NOT the right place to ask: "Can you help me with a low fare for AAA-BBB?" This is not the beg-it thread, but the trick-it thread.
This thread deals with unique combinations of routes and booking tricks in order to lower prices on airline fares. Prices that would astound the general public are often achieved by the posters in this thread.
Many people, including airline representatives, monitor this thread. For that reason, it is unorganized, very content heavy, often lacking details, and written in shorthand. It takes patience and effort in order to understand the conversation and be able to participate as an active member.
We encourage you to read the entirety of this thread if you would like to get started and to experiment as soon as you understand the gist of Trick It. Lots of time spent reading, practicing, and learning is the only way to be able to reproduce our tricks and discover new ones yourself. There are many, many people who ask for advice here, so productive members are only able to help those who have shown a concerted effort and progress over a long period of time (months).
If you have no idea what this thread is about, a good place to start are various blogs' posts on the subject. At the very least, read the Rules for posting in this thread. They're also listed in the very first post, below.
Older portions of the thread have been separated into archive thread by year. They are listed below
2008 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2009 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2010 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2011 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2012 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2013 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2014 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
************************************************** ******
This is NOT the right place to ask: "Can you help me with a low fare for AAA-BBB?" This is not the beg-it thread, but the trick-it thread.
This thread deals with unique combinations of routes and booking tricks in order to lower prices on airline fares. Prices that would astound the general public are often achieved by the posters in this thread.
Many people, including airline representatives, monitor this thread. For that reason, it is unorganized, very content heavy, often lacking details, and written in shorthand. It takes patience and effort in order to understand the conversation and be able to participate as an active member.
We encourage you to read the entirety of this thread if you would like to get started and to experiment as soon as you understand the gist of Trick It. Lots of time spent reading, practicing, and learning is the only way to be able to reproduce our tricks and discover new ones yourself. There are many, many people who ask for advice here, so productive members are only able to help those who have shown a concerted effort and progress over a long period of time (months).
If you have no idea what this thread is about, a good place to start are various blogs' posts on the subject. At the very least, read the Rules for posting in this thread. They're also listed in the very first post, below.
Older portions of the thread have been separated into archive thread by year. They are listed below
2008 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2009 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2010 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2011 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2012 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2013 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
2014 Trick It / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
Trick it / negotiate it / special savings lounge thread
Jan 29, 2020, 8:05 am
#9826
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York Metropolitan Area 45 km from JFK
Programs: UA,AA,AS,BA
Posts: 4,607
You won't find it. You have to use an alternative structure and X factor, which is not TK itself and which can include a 5 hours flight in Business Class.
Last edited by WingedWorldExplorer; Jan 31, 2020 at 1:39 pm
Jan 29, 2020, 9:55 am
#9827
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATL
Programs: AAdvantage, Aeroplan
Posts: 30
Would the same structure and Xfactor work leaving from C1? I’ve started checking the airline codes in the fare rules. Can I guess and check on ITA?
Feb 1, 2020, 10:50 am
#9828
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: YYZ, SFO
Programs: DL Diamond, UA Platinum, OZ Diamond, AC Prestige25K
Posts: 129
Hey everyone! I'm fairly new to matrix ITA-ing so apologies for the stupid question. Sometimes when I search for base fares, I don't see a YQ charge even though I haven't done any dumping yet. Does this mean that this fare is undumpable? Example with a random fare:
Feb 1, 2020, 11:12 am
#9829
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Tumi
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 473
Hey everyone! I'm fairly new to matrix ITA-ing so apologies for the stupid question. Sometimes when I search for base fares, I don't see a YQ charge even though I haven't done any dumping yet. Does this mean that this fare is undumpable? Example with a random fare:
Feb 1, 2020, 10:18 pm
#9830
Join Date: May 2019
Location: GVA/LYS/ZRH/CDG
Posts: 10
"Hidden" city pair ?
I have a question regarding city-pairs and faring, if anyone can provide some knowledge, that would be much appreciated.
Let me explain with an example:
I have a carrier of "interest" (Airline1) flying from City A (in country A) to city B (in country B).
According to matrix, Airline1 can also go to city C (in country B) with the following routing : CityA -> Airline1 -> CityB -> Airline2 -> CityC, and the faring carrier is still Airline1. (Faring with the same fare basis than CityA-CityB)
But:
- when checking on Airline1's website, City C is not offered in their "destination list"
- I can't price City A-CityC on OTA except by using BookwithMatrix
My questions is:
Is there a "way" to kown the "hidden" cities of a carrier such as city C ? Or should I forget about these ?
(Feel free to DM in case of "confidential information" or if you need an example..)
Thanks in advance
Let me explain with an example:
I have a carrier of "interest" (Airline1) flying from City A (in country A) to city B (in country B).
According to matrix, Airline1 can also go to city C (in country B) with the following routing : CityA -> Airline1 -> CityB -> Airline2 -> CityC, and the faring carrier is still Airline1. (Faring with the same fare basis than CityA-CityB)
But:
- when checking on Airline1's website, City C is not offered in their "destination list"
- I can't price City A-CityC on OTA except by using BookwithMatrix
My questions is:
Is there a "way" to kown the "hidden" cities of a carrier such as city C ? Or should I forget about these ?
(Feel free to DM in case of "confidential information" or if you need an example..)
Thanks in advance
Feb 8, 2020, 5:59 am
#9834
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York Metropolitan Area 45 km from JFK
Programs: UA,AA,AS,BA
Posts: 4,607
I was waiting to see how long it would go on before anyone noticed and complained. Yes that is exactly what this thread has come to.
Some begging posters have been a member for just 1 day and other(s) for 15 years.
Some ask general and imprecise questions and others claim "emergency" distress in order to get hand-out.
C6-C2 can mean Ayers Rock to Malta but what if the person asking the question is from Melbourne hoping to get to Stockholm.
At the other end of the spectrum, you find people who post something slightly more detailed and therefore useful and actionable.
Last edited by Pat89339; Feb 9, 2020 at 1:54 am Reason: TOS 18
Feb 8, 2020, 2:00 pm
#9835
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: YYZ, SFO
Programs: DL Diamond, UA Platinum, OZ Diamond, AC Prestige25K
Posts: 129
Maybe if people were actually helpful there would be less posts asking for info? I asked a simple question about matrix ITA and received exactly zero useful replies. Given that there isn't a "fuel dumping beginner's guide" anywhere, are you surprised that people just starting out have questions?
Feb 8, 2020, 4:50 pm
#9836
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York Metropolitan Area 45 km from JFK
Programs: UA,AA,AS,BA
Posts: 4,607
Maybe if people were actually helpful there would be less posts asking for info? I asked a simple question about matrix ITA and received exactly zero useful replies. Given that there isn't a "fuel dumping beginner's guide" anywhere, are you surprised that people just starting out have questions?
So you did a "Random" search. Randomness is always a bad idea.
You showed a screenshot of a routing and carrier with No YQ. So what are you trying to eliminate ?? People have to guess that you are exploring Lima Peru but nobody is going to do the basic ground work for you.
That's Why !
FYI, yes there are some flights from Europe/USA/Canada to Peru which can be fully dumped. I have posted some in the past.
Last edited by WingedWorldExplorer; Feb 8, 2020 at 5:04 pm
Feb 8, 2020, 7:42 pm
#9837
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: YYZ, SFO
Programs: DL Diamond, UA Platinum, OZ Diamond, AC Prestige25K
Posts: 129
Yes, you asked a simple question but as you say yourself also a "stupid" question. You have been on FT for 1+ years and you demonstrate that you do not understand the most elementary concept.
So you did a "Random" search. Randomness is always a bad idea.
You showed a screenshot of a routing and carrier with No YQ. So what are you trying to eliminate ?? People have to guess that you are exploring Lima Peru but nobody is going to do the basic ground work for you.
That's Why !
FYI, yes there are some flights from Europe/USA/Canada to Peru which can be fully dumped. I have posted some in the past.
So you did a "Random" search. Randomness is always a bad idea.
You showed a screenshot of a routing and carrier with No YQ. So what are you trying to eliminate ?? People have to guess that you are exploring Lima Peru but nobody is going to do the basic ground work for you.
That's Why !
FYI, yes there are some flights from Europe/USA/Canada to Peru which can be fully dumped. I have posted some in the past.
I appreciate your response and hope that in general, experienced fuel dumpers will be more willing to answer such "stupid" questions. It's not like I'm asking for a particular 3X, so there should be no harm or risk in answering my question.
Some similarly stupid questions I have:
- Does "safe construction" refer to an itinerary that is completely flyable because the strike is a close open jaw to the main set of flights, or that the fare is a self-dump and no open jaw is required at all?
- Matrix ITA is relatively slow compared to some other OTAs/search engines. Aside from the ability to read fare rules, there's no reason why I *have* to use ITA to try out potential strikes right?
Feb 9, 2020, 7:10 am
#9838
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York Metropolitan Area 45 km from JFK
Programs: UA,AA,AS,BA
Posts: 4,607
Stupid questions are how people learn. I'm not trying to explore Peru - just had a general question about ITA and pulled up a random fare. I wasn't sure if ITA wasn't properly showing the YQ, or if there was legitimately no YQ at all.
I appreciate your response and hope that in general, experienced fuel dumpers will be more willing to answer such "stupid" questions. It's not like I'm asking for a particular 3X, so there should be no harm or risk in answering my question.
Some similarly stupid questions I have:
- Does "safe construction" refer to an itinerary that is completely flyable because the strike is a close open jaw to the main set of flights, or that the fare is a self-dump and no open jaw is required at all?
- Matrix ITA is relatively slow compared to some other OTAs/search engines. Aside from the ability to read fare rules, there's no reason why I *have* to use ITA to try out potential strikes right?
I appreciate your response and hope that in general, experienced fuel dumpers will be more willing to answer such "stupid" questions. It's not like I'm asking for a particular 3X, so there should be no harm or risk in answering my question.
Some similarly stupid questions I have:
- Does "safe construction" refer to an itinerary that is completely flyable because the strike is a close open jaw to the main set of flights, or that the fare is a self-dump and no open jaw is required at all?
- Matrix ITA is relatively slow compared to some other OTAs/search engines. Aside from the ability to read fare rules, there's no reason why I *have* to use ITA to try out potential strikes right?
1. There is not an skipped/unflyable segment ( 1X) in the ticket itinerary, which, if unflown, may cause the airline to cancel remainder of itinarary
or
2.The First segment is in near geographical proximity ( same C) as the first segment of main itinerary, i.e flyable. If 1st segment ends in same/very near city/airport to main itinerary and thus flyable we usually use the term "IN-LINE" 1X .
ITA offers so much more flexibility than anything else. Among those are Multi-Airport search within radius, Specific carrier search, Specific carrier combination ( f. eks DL+ OZ+. combinations etc
Last edited by WingedWorldExplorer; Feb 9, 2020 at 9:24 am