FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Mileage Run Discussion (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-discussion-627/)
-   -   Suspicious? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-discussion/680866-suspicious.html)

coachrowsey Apr 10, 2007 10:32 am

What you do with your money is your business & not TSA's.

edwin_p_morales Apr 10, 2007 11:15 am


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 7557652)
Talk to The Hand.

:D :D :D :) :)

pltwannab Apr 10, 2007 12:23 pm


Originally Posted by n198ua (Post 7556283)
Hey everyone~

Not sure if I'm posting this in the right forum, if not my apologies..

I just took my first MR last week (DSM-DEN-PHX-DEN-ORD-DSM) and it worked out so great I've booked another one in a few weeks. I've been telling some friends of mine about it, and I'm pretty much hearing things like "dumb", "stupid", "money-wasting", which I pretty much expected :)

BUT, someone did say something that got me thinking, that MR's could be "suspicious". Indeed, traveling around all day not spending more than an hour in any airport can look pretty suspicious. Especially after 9/11, I'm wondering if any frequent MRunners, especially those doing int'l runs have run into any security trouble. I'm considering a MR to LHR at some point, and don't know how I'd explain to the customs folks that I'll only be in the country for a few hours . . .

This has been discussed several times. But just be honest with the immigration & custom officer (at both ends) that you were doing a mileage run. Lot of them do understand the concept. And if they don't they could care less.

babsjvd Apr 10, 2007 8:24 pm


Originally Posted by Counsellor (Post 7558033)
This happened before 9-11, for what it's worth.

I was doing something like a mileage run - it was a fare that allowed so many coupons/flights for a flat rate, and I had arranged an extremely circuitous routing in order to maximize the miles from the number of flights available, including one pair of segments that essentially dropped from the upper midwest down to Texas and went back up again. Stopover in Houston was about one hour.

I got off the plane, wandered around for a little while near the gate, then sat and read waiting for the flight to be called. From time to time I noticed one guy looking at me, and when the flight was boarding, he and another man came over, showed airport security credentials, and asked if they could ask me some questions.

I had no objection to hearing questions (although I might, in the proper circumstances, object to answering them), and so when they asked about my unusual routing I explained. They in turn explained to me that when the "unusual" routing came to the attention of the "authorities" (I didn't ask how that came to happen), they felt it looked like a courier or smuggler run, and had observed me to see if there was a "brush-past" or "hand-off" to someone or if I got or left something at a "dead drop".

I guess it could look like smuggling or spying (industrial or otherwise) from the routing and short layover, and that in itself could be suspicious.

that is amazing, who would have thought!

dagr8one Apr 11, 2007 6:51 am


Originally Posted by n198ua (Post 7556283)
I just took my first MR last week I'm considering a MR to LHR at some point, and don't know how I'd explain to the customs folks that I'll only be in the country for a few hours . . .

I think most of the large European airports should be no problem at all.

If you ever route through YVR (or for that matter, anywhere in Canada) it may become a PITA. Even transiting pax have to go through immigration like everyone else and traveling alone (without luggage) seems to raise an enormous red flag with them.

I don't think they "get" mileage runs. I had mixed experiences there a few weeks ago.

puppysara Apr 11, 2007 2:13 pm

MR thru DUB & SNN got smile
 
I did two MR in Jan LAX-DUB and LAX-SNN. No problem either place. When I went thru immigration at SNN there were two people ahead of me; only one immigration officer. When it was my turn he asked how long would I be in Ireland and I responded an hour. He slid his glasses to the tip of his nose, looked over them with his head cocked and said, "Miles?" with a smile. I nodded. Done and done. I think SNN and DUB are quite used to FTers doing MR as it is so convenient and cheap in the off season. Nothing suspicious about it. They're well trained to be on the lookout for us now.

itsme Apr 11, 2007 3:17 pm


Originally Posted by Counsellor (Post 7558033)
This happened before 9-11, for what it's worth.

I was doing something like a mileage run - it was a fare that allowed so many coupons/flights for a flat rate, and I had arranged an extremely circuitous routing in order to maximize the miles from the number of flights available, including one pair of segments that essentially dropped from the upper midwest down to Texas and went back up again. Stopover in Houston was about one hour.

I got off the plane, wandered around for a little while near the gate, then sat and read waiting for the flight to be called. From time to time I noticed one guy looking at me, and when the flight was boarding, he and another man came over, showed airport security credentials, and asked if they could ask me some questions.

I had no objection to hearing questions (although I might, in the proper circumstances, object to answering them), and so when they asked about my unusual routing I explained. They in turn explained to me that when the "unusual" routing came to the attention of the "authorities" (I didn't ask how that came to happen), they felt it looked like a courier or smuggler run, and had observed me to see if there was a "brush-past" or "hand-off" to someone or if I got or left something at a "dead drop".

I guess it could look like smuggling or spying (industrial or otherwise) from the routing and short layover, and that in itself could be suspicious.

Seems to me that they were doing their duty as LEOs properly. I wonder who pointed you out to them, since it sounds like the only thing exceptional was the itinerary, and that wouldn't have been known/knowable to other than airline personnel. You must have been identified as a suspicious person by someone "upstream" from the two who actually came over to question you.

bschaff1 Apr 12, 2007 10:16 am

I have only done one real international MR to MUC and I got grilled by security before the gate area about my itinerary and searched one more time by a guard. i had a printout of my itinerary that guard asked to see and she took it to her supervisor and came back about 5 minutes later saying it was rather suspicious but after searching my bag she left it at that. It took about 15 minutes and 20 questions to get past this guard, but I didn't mind since she was courteous and I had nothing to hide. Coming back in to ORD the only thing that caught the eyes of customs was when one of the agents reminded me not to forget my bag, to which I replied "I travel light".

GUWonder Apr 12, 2007 10:40 am

The only suspicious thing involved in this is the suspect thinking of people who dream up terrorists when they aren't there.

gre Apr 12, 2007 4:03 pm

On a MR yesterday it was clear that I would not make a connection so a proactive GA asked me if I wanted to skip a leg. She said "Mr gre, you're flying to LAS for an hour then to SFO for another hour before a flight to IAD where you started this morning? Why would you do that?" I just smiled and ignored the questions and she said "Oh, just flying around for fun I guess". I did let her send me straight to SFO so I could get home though.

Kiwi Flyer Apr 12, 2007 5:00 pm


Originally Posted by puppysara (Post 7565571)
I did two MR in Jan LAX-DUB and LAX-SNN. No problem either place. When I went thru immigration at SNN there were two people ahead of me; only one immigration officer. When it was my turn he asked how long would I be in Ireland and I responded an hour. He slid his glasses to the tip of his nose, looked over them with his head cocked and said, "Miles?" with a smile. I nodded. Done and done. I think SNN and DUB are quite used to FTers doing MR as it is so convenient and cheap in the off season. Nothing suspicious about it. They're well trained to be on the lookout for us now.

There are still plenty of international places not used to MRs. While it does sometimes lead to extensive questioning, be polite and truthful and there are no bigger problems than a small delay. Many places could care less about crazy people who do international turnarounds and transits in odd corners of the world.

Counsellor Apr 13, 2007 1:37 am


Originally Posted by itsme (Post 7565967)
Seems to me that they were doing their duty as LEOs properly. I wonder who pointed you out to them, since it sounds like the only thing exceptional was the itinerary, and that wouldn't have been known/knowable to other than airline personnel. You must have been identified as a suspicious person by someone "upstream" from the two who actually came over to question you.

I wondered that myself, but didn't ask. I am inclined to think it might have been the check-in agent at the first airport (the flight was actually three legs, and not in any way "direct").

Philoj Apr 13, 2007 5:00 pm


Originally Posted by coachrowsey (Post 7558137)
What you do with your money is your business & not TSA's.

I find these kind of responses odd. Should the CIA, FBI, and DHS just sit around and respond to crimes after they happen? Or do we expect some modicum of investigation and prevention from our law enforcement agencies?

I'm a huge civil libertarian, but if someone is hanging around outside a bank with a shotgun wearing a ski mask, I really don't have a problem with a police officer asking them what they're up to. (Okay, that's an extreme case, and they wouldn't just be "questioned politely", but I'm trying to make a point)

Do you notice something about the members of this forum? They mostly have something in common. We've got folks here on a first name basis with FA's, who understand which seats are better on which aircraft, know the progression of communications between FA's and crew, know the three bongs mean the aircraft has reached 10,000 feet, etc, etc, etc. Why?

Experience. Lots of experience flying on aircraft. This means you know how things work, who's going to be where when, how aircraft crowd patterns work, and so on. Now if a Bad Guy wanted to do something bad on an aircraft, wouldn't he want the same kind of experience? (Hint: in the military it's called reconnoitering or intelligence)

So it makes sense to at least check out someone who suddenly seems to be doing nothing but sitting on airplanes.

Honestly, the most disturbing thing about these events is that the DHS and FAMs don't know what a mileage run is. I would expect the agents who monitor airline safety to be on this board, know what an MR is, know what one looks like, and how to identify an MR'er in three questions or less:
"Mileage run?"
"Yeah"
"So you're Platinum - get that with a challenge?"
"Nope, butt-in-seat miles all the way"
"Any good incentives on this run?"
"Yeah - FLY3 gets me triple miles out of Love"
"Okay, you can go. Thank you for your time"

That they can't imagine anyone flying crazy itineraries for anything but smuggling or terrorism is kinda scary.

Spiff Apr 13, 2007 7:05 pm


Originally Posted by Philoj (Post 7578433)
I find these kind of responses odd. Should the CIA, FBI, and DHS just sit around and respond to crimes after they happen? Or do we expect some modicum of investigation and prevention from our law enforcement agencies?

I'm a huge civil libertarian, but if someone is hanging around outside a bank with a shotgun wearing a ski mask, I really don't have a problem with a police officer asking them what they're up to. (Okay, that's an extreme case, and they wouldn't just be "questioned politely", but I'm trying to make a point)

So it makes sense to at least check out someone who suddenly seems to be doing nothing but sitting on airplanes.

Sorry, flying in a plane has nothing to do with a ski mask and a shotgun.

No one should be interrogated over their legal activities and that includes mileage running.

GadgetFreak Apr 13, 2007 7:21 pm

I normally stay a day or so on international mileage runs, but not always. Even on domestic runs I usually try to stay a day, get a hotel stay, and see or do something. About the only comment I have had on a domestic run was late in a year when I had JFK-LAX-LAS and back the same day on UA. I was in the JFK RCC and they were printing out boarding passes and the concierge looked at it a sec and then chuckled and said, "I guess its that time of year again, thanks for flying United".

A couple years ago a run on US (back when I flew them) from LGA-CLT-LGW and back didnt start because of a blizzard in NY. US gave a window for no charge rebooking but with my schedule I couldnt stay the weekend as I planned and had to go and come back in 4 hours. I needed the trip to make CP on US that year. I got to Gatwick and there was a trainee at immigration being watched by a more senior person. The trainee asked how long I would be in England and I said, about 4 hours. The senior person immediately came over and asked why. I explained including the blizzard, the miles and qualifying and change fees if I did it another time. He commented that he had heard about the blizzard and hoped it was worth it for the qualifying. I told him I hoped so too and he laughed and said, "well, dont want to hold you up any more, its not like you have a lot of time to enjoy your trip to our country, have a nice visit". I thanked him and walked away. The trainee was just staring at both of us.

The really important thing with immigration is to tell the truth. It isnt a time for jokes about being an international drug courier unless you are trying to avoid paying your gastroenterologist for that check-up. ;)


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 1:39 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.