Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Jun 15, 2020, 8:34 pm
#1426
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA ExPl, DL PM, UA Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, probably some others
Posts: 4,093
shoot can someone share a copy of the full fare basis I2FFHU in the previous format with the wording about fully refundable? orbitz quoting updated fare rules saying free to cancel and rebook but NOT free refund. shady change on behalf of AF / KLM.
Looking for fare basis info to re-dispute my charge again with chase. thanks!
Looking for fare basis info to re-dispute my charge again with chase. thanks!
Jun 16, 2020, 3:25 am
#1427
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 119
So a strange thing just happened -- I get a call from a number I don't recognize. I don't pick up calls from numbers I don't recognize but a voicemail was left which said it was KLM. At first I'm thinking this is definitely a spam, but then this person starts discussing my itinerary for this BUD-AMS-US route. Next thought is I must've gotten hacked. But I checked the phone number I received the call from, +31204747747. It was a legit KLM customer service number.
Much of the VM had poor connection but they said my flight in early July got cancelled. Then I get an email shortly afterwards with a new ticket. In short, it looks like they were proactively trying to reach out to me to let me know of the cancelled flight plus a reschedule for the following day. Anyone else actually get contacted directly by an airline rep for this ticket?
I'm US based so it doesn't look like I'll be able to fly out from BUD for the first week of July anyways so I'm going to have to push this back, but it's interesting they've reached a point where they are being proactive about ticket cancellations and notifying the passenger. Certainly appreciated though. Now if only they can refund my flight I cancelled back on 3/14 10 minutes after I booked my flight...it's been over 3 months.
Much of the VM had poor connection but they said my flight in early July got cancelled. Then I get an email shortly afterwards with a new ticket. In short, it looks like they were proactively trying to reach out to me to let me know of the cancelled flight plus a reschedule for the following day. Anyone else actually get contacted directly by an airline rep for this ticket?
I'm US based so it doesn't look like I'll be able to fly out from BUD for the first week of July anyways so I'm going to have to push this back, but it's interesting they've reached a point where they are being proactive about ticket cancellations and notifying the passenger. Certainly appreciated though. Now if only they can refund my flight I cancelled back on 3/14 10 minutes after I booked my flight...it's been over 3 months.
Jun 16, 2020, 5:39 am
#1428
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: EDSB
Programs: TK elite & BA Gold
Posts: 263
New release of Delta:
Amid the ongoing challenges of the coronavirus pandemic, Delta is committing the utmost care and attention to evaluating our travel waiver policies and continuing to make it even easier for customers to cancel, change or rebook travel.
That’s why we’re extending change fee waivers to include existing bookings or canceled travel through September 2020. Customers who have travel booked between now and September 30 as of April 17, 2020, or canceled travel from flights between March 2020 through September 2020 now have the flexibility to travel until September 30, 2022.
Whether customers have been affected by recent schedule adjustments or want additional reassurance about upcoming travel, we’re now extending the ability to plan, re-book and travelwith us for up to two years – giving Delta customers some extra breathing room.
Taking care of customers is at the center of everything we do. In these times of rapid change, we know our customers want the value of their tickets to be secure and redeemable for a longer period.
Tickets normally expire one year after purchase, but we’re providing waived change fees and greater flexibility to travel through September 30, 2022, for customers who:
For detailed terms and conditions, visit this page.
Just as our business is changing, we know that events in our customers’ lives are being changed and canceled, too. As always, we’re happy to work with customers on a case-by-case basis to figure out the best way to address their concerns.
Amid the ongoing challenges of the coronavirus pandemic, Delta is committing the utmost care and attention to evaluating our travel waiver policies and continuing to make it even easier for customers to cancel, change or rebook travel.
That’s why we’re extending change fee waivers to include existing bookings or canceled travel through September 2020. Customers who have travel booked between now and September 30 as of April 17, 2020, or canceled travel from flights between March 2020 through September 2020 now have the flexibility to travel until September 30, 2022.
Whether customers have been affected by recent schedule adjustments or want additional reassurance about upcoming travel, we’re now extending the ability to plan, re-book and travelwith us for up to two years – giving Delta customers some extra breathing room.
Taking care of customers is at the center of everything we do. In these times of rapid change, we know our customers want the value of their tickets to be secure and redeemable for a longer period.
Tickets normally expire one year after purchase, but we’re providing waived change fees and greater flexibility to travel through September 30, 2022, for customers who:
- have upcoming travel already booked between now and September 30 as of April 17, 2020
- have canceled travel from flights between March 2020 and September 2020
For detailed terms and conditions, visit this page.
Just as our business is changing, we know that events in our customers’ lives are being changed and canceled, too. As always, we’re happy to work with customers on a case-by-case basis to figure out the best way to address their concerns.
Jun 16, 2020, 10:09 am
#1429
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PlatMM, BA and Alaska Emerald, HHonors DIA, Accor, Marriott Titanium, IHG Plat Amb, UA Silver, AA
Posts: 4,514
Thanks for that-- seems to be changing almost daily!
So in addition to this being a fully flexible ticket in terms of refunds and cancellations even without Covid-19 issues, DL now allows travel later into the year on all tickets, all the way to Sept 2022 you'd save the "change fees" which there aren't any on this ticket....
But in trying to change for anything after Sept 30, "Fare difference will apply" makes me worried DL agents won't rebook for later dates without trying to reprice the ticket, especially on a voluntary change.
I just luckily had my first flight (BUD-MXP) drop from my reservation, so that now I have a broken reservation, might be easier to fix than my previous issue that I'd hesitated calling about (JFK-STT nonstop was cancelled and I was rebooked onto JFK-ATL-STT). A couple detailed questions:
1) The fare rules say "2 transfers permitted in each direction" . What's my "destination" according to the fare rules? STT or MSP?
My original ticket was: BUD-MXP-JFK-STT (stop)-- STT-ATL-MSP (stop)-- MSP-AMS-BUD
2) So, was the ticket BUD-MSP with a stop in STT? Or, was it constructed as BUD-STT, with a stop on the return in MSP?
3) Has anyone been able to add a stopover to their ticket? The fare rules do say "unlimited free stopovers" and also that any stopovers do NOT trigger the HIP....
My idea is:
BUD-JFK/ATL (new stopover, it was previously all the way to STT)
ATL/JFK-STT (stop)
STT-MSP (stop)
MSP-BUD
4) Thoughts? Thanks!
So in addition to this being a fully flexible ticket in terms of refunds and cancellations even without Covid-19 issues, DL now allows travel later into the year on all tickets, all the way to Sept 2022 you'd save the "change fees" which there aren't any on this ticket....
But in trying to change for anything after Sept 30, "Fare difference will apply" makes me worried DL agents won't rebook for later dates without trying to reprice the ticket, especially on a voluntary change.
I just luckily had my first flight (BUD-MXP) drop from my reservation, so that now I have a broken reservation, might be easier to fix than my previous issue that I'd hesitated calling about (JFK-STT nonstop was cancelled and I was rebooked onto JFK-ATL-STT). A couple detailed questions:
1) The fare rules say "2 transfers permitted in each direction" . What's my "destination" according to the fare rules? STT or MSP?
My original ticket was: BUD-MXP-JFK-STT (stop)-- STT-ATL-MSP (stop)-- MSP-AMS-BUD
2) So, was the ticket BUD-MSP with a stop in STT? Or, was it constructed as BUD-STT, with a stop on the return in MSP?
3) Has anyone been able to add a stopover to their ticket? The fare rules do say "unlimited free stopovers" and also that any stopovers do NOT trigger the HIP....
My idea is:
BUD-JFK/ATL (new stopover, it was previously all the way to STT)
ATL/JFK-STT (stop)
STT-MSP (stop)
MSP-BUD
4) Thoughts? Thanks!
Jun 16, 2020, 10:49 am
#1430
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
Unless you've linked to the wrong page, that's not new [last update 28/05] - I don't see anything changed about it either.
Thanks for that-- seems to be changing almost daily!
So in addition to this being a fully flexible ticket in terms of refunds and cancellations even without Covid-19 issues, DL now allows travel later into the year on all tickets, all the way to Sept 2022 you'd save the "change fees" which there aren't any on this ticket....
But in trying to change for anything after Sept 30, "Fare difference will apply" makes me worried DL agents won't rebook for later dates without trying to reprice the ticket, especially on a voluntary change.
I just luckily had my first flight (BUD-MXP) drop from my reservation, so that now I have a broken reservation, might be easier to fix than my previous issue that I'd hesitated calling about (JFK-STT nonstop was cancelled and I was rebooked onto JFK-ATL-STT). A couple detailed questions:
1) The fare rules say "2 transfers permitted in each direction" . What's my "destination" according to the fare rules? STT or MSP?
My original ticket was: BUD-MXP-JFK-STT (stop)-- STT-ATL-MSP (stop)-- MSP-AMS-BUD
2) So, was the ticket BUD-MSP with a stop in STT? Or, was it constructed as BUD-STT, with a stop on the return in MSP?
3) Has anyone been able to add a stopover to their ticket? The fare rules do say "unlimited free stopovers" and also that any stopovers do NOT trigger the HIP....
My idea is:
BUD-JFK/ATL (new stopover, it was previously all the way to STT)
ATL/JFK-STT (stop)
STT-MSP (stop)
MSP-BUD
4) Thoughts? Thanks!
So in addition to this being a fully flexible ticket in terms of refunds and cancellations even without Covid-19 issues, DL now allows travel later into the year on all tickets, all the way to Sept 2022 you'd save the "change fees" which there aren't any on this ticket....
But in trying to change for anything after Sept 30, "Fare difference will apply" makes me worried DL agents won't rebook for later dates without trying to reprice the ticket, especially on a voluntary change.
I just luckily had my first flight (BUD-MXP) drop from my reservation, so that now I have a broken reservation, might be easier to fix than my previous issue that I'd hesitated calling about (JFK-STT nonstop was cancelled and I was rebooked onto JFK-ATL-STT). A couple detailed questions:
1) The fare rules say "2 transfers permitted in each direction" . What's my "destination" according to the fare rules? STT or MSP?
My original ticket was: BUD-MXP-JFK-STT (stop)-- STT-ATL-MSP (stop)-- MSP-AMS-BUD
2) So, was the ticket BUD-MSP with a stop in STT? Or, was it constructed as BUD-STT, with a stop on the return in MSP?
3) Has anyone been able to add a stopover to their ticket? The fare rules do say "unlimited free stopovers" and also that any stopovers do NOT trigger the HIP....
My idea is:
BUD-JFK/ATL (new stopover, it was previously all the way to STT)
ATL/JFK-STT (stop)
STT-MSP (stop)
MSP-BUD
4) Thoughts? Thanks!
- Those are additive - so it's two in the US and two in Europe [and one in France and in Hawai'i].
- Almost certain your destination would be STT - MSP wasn't a valid destination for this fare/price [can be checked on ExpertFlyer - I'd looked that up before due to my own flights]. ATL was valid - I believe - so you could have been ticketed to there [since you were originally going JFK-STT].
- Don't think we have good info on whether they're willing to add new stopovers in - should be trivial to argue for the ones you had. Come to think of it, I did manage to add a stopover - by requesting to add the inter-island flight in Hawai'i to my open-jaw. That was a permitted change to the return leg though - rather than in the act of pushing the dates later into the calendar [that trip's December anyway].
- If you've had a cancellation, then I would just try contacting them and feeding them the flights you'd like. Be prepared to HUACA, and if a couple of attempts don't allow you to add the stopover then just take what you've got - it's pretty good already and the ability to push it out into next year is not something worth losing through being too demanding.
Jun 16, 2020, 3:34 pm
#1431
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: NL
Programs: FB Silver - STE, BAEC Bronze - OW Ruby
Posts: 178
My end-july DL BUD-HNL ticket vanished, a voucher shows in the voucher portal. No email received or other communication whatsoever. I can just get in touch with DL to have my ticket reinstated on a later date, correct?
Jun 16, 2020, 4:11 pm
#1432
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: DFW
Posts: 310
FYI for those trying to get in touch with Delta, according to TPG you will no longer able to request assistance via social media for the time being.
I actually think streamlining customer service channels can be a good thing, as it focuses the efforts of agents to fewer channels and theoretically could result in improved efficiency/reduced waits when reaching out via the official channels. Hopefully that's true.
I actually think streamlining customer service channels can be a good thing, as it focuses the efforts of agents to fewer channels and theoretically could result in improved efficiency/reduced waits when reaching out via the official channels. Hopefully that's true.
Jun 16, 2020, 10:31 pm
#1433
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 205
As to stopovers in Europe: would these look something like this: arriving from abroad in AMS, then AMS-PRG for a PRG stopover and then returning to AMS to fly AMS-BUD? Or do KL/AF/DL have some point to point routes in Europe that don't require the hub connection? Thanks.
Jun 17, 2020, 12:38 am
#1434
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
As to stopovers in Europe: would these look something like this: arriving from abroad in AMS, then AMS-PRG for a PRG stopover and then returning to AMS to fly AMS-BUD? Or do KL/AF/DL have some point to point routes in Europe that don't require the hub connection? Thanks.
Last edited by etiene; Jun 17, 2020 at 12:41 am Reason: Answered a couple of follow-on questions for altalk08.
Jun 17, 2020, 12:58 am
#1436
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
Hadn't DL intended to start JFK-PRG? If that's in the schedule for next year [and dates which work for you] then you could do [wherever]-JFK-PRG[stopover]-AMS-BUD. If they subsequently cancel/push back the direct flight then the third transfer would be their problem so I'm pretty sure the rules would be waived to give you US-AMS-PRG[stopover]-AMS-BUD. I would be very surprised if such thin routes actually start-up in Summer 2021 though, so you'd want to get that booked before the number crunchers decide that the earliest it may start up is Summer 2022.
Jun 17, 2020, 2:25 am
#1438
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: London / Amsterdam
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 223
Multiple people have reported that their booking went missing in the previous tread. Some had multiple bookings throughout the year and their July bookings got deleted but their December bookings were still intact.
My July booking got deleted. I finally managed to get through to customer service (iMessage) today and my booking got reinstated and moved to Sep 11 - Nov 1.
My July booking got deleted. I finally managed to get through to customer service (iMessage) today and my booking got reinstated and moved to Sep 11 - Nov 1.
Jun 17, 2020, 2:50 am
#1439
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
No need to be overly worried about December [yet] - this is just the rerouting algorithm giving up on an itinerary because so many flights have been axed due to COVID. Nobody has reported an issue getting reinstated, and it's nothing to do with this fare specifically.
Jun 17, 2020, 3:21 am
#1440
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: DUS
Posts: 318
Don't think we have good info on whether they're willing to add new stopovers in - should be trivial to argue for the ones you had. Come to think of it, I did manage to add a stopover - by requesting to add the inter-island flight in Hawai'i to my open-jaw. That was a permitted change to the return leg though - rather than in the act of pushing the dates later into the calendar [that trip's December anyway].
Last edited by svellmann; Jun 17, 2020 at 3:23 am Reason: shortened quoted text