Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Jun 14, 2020, 12:55 pm
#1411
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Surrey
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, Eurostar CB, IHG Spire, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz President Circle
Posts: 435
I contacted KL via WhatsApp.. Could be worth trying other channels. But its for travel around Xmas so current waivers don't apply
Jun 14, 2020, 1:18 pm
#1413
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: DL DM/MM
Posts: 2,270
Jun 14, 2020, 1:20 pm
#1414
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,456
Correction: think AF/KL may have allowed that, not sure it still does. (And can we please have the original thread back!)
Last edited by etiene; Jun 14, 2020 at 1:42 pm
Jun 14, 2020, 1:31 pm
#1415
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: DL DM/MM
Posts: 2,270
This totally makes sense. Right now, I received an email notifying me of cancellations for some of my flights. Do you think it's safe to assume that the waiver applies to me because it's a cancellation on their part?
Jun 14, 2020, 1:41 pm
#1416
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,456
I think AF/KL had something about shifting to December or later as long as you had the right class - didn’t see in now from a quick look at KL though.
Jun 14, 2020, 1:56 pm
#1417
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: TXL
Programs: A3 Silver
Posts: 1,116
Jun 14, 2020, 5:37 pm
#1418
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: DFW
Posts: 310
Just a guess, the other thread may have been deleted due to more discussions about covid entry/exit requirements? Not sure.
FYI, two tips for people trying to reach Delta, I was able to schedule a callback by pretending to book a new flight. Presumably, once you had a res agent on the line they would be able to assist with existing reservations as well. I was quoted a 5hr 48 min wait time, and they actually called me back in about 5.5 hours. Calling in with the existing reservation PNR resulted in an apology and a hangup all 8 of the times I tried, at various hours of the day.
Ultimately, I was able to get service for my reservation by texting 33582. A great agent helped me out in about 4 hours. Messages back and forth took about 10 minutes to get a response after an agent came on the line, and the agent was having trouble seeing the itinerary I wanted on the AF A350 and DL suites, but was able to manually sell it in the end and I got the flights I wanted in Sept and Oct.
One other note: when reissuing the ticket, many agents will default to stating "this ticket will still be nonrefundable, nontransferable, and any further changes would result in penalties and fare differences." I pushed back by asking about the original fare rules and whether they apply, and the backtracked and acknowledged that the ticket is refundable. This is valuable because as far as I can tell, it's the only official communication from Delta that the ticket is in fact fully flexible, so if I run into any issues with seeking a refund or fare difference waiver I have documentation to fall back on.
Good luck to those with cancelled flights/reservations. If you booked with Delta, I would feel confident in your ability to reinstate and change your reservation as needed.
FYI, two tips for people trying to reach Delta, I was able to schedule a callback by pretending to book a new flight. Presumably, once you had a res agent on the line they would be able to assist with existing reservations as well. I was quoted a 5hr 48 min wait time, and they actually called me back in about 5.5 hours. Calling in with the existing reservation PNR resulted in an apology and a hangup all 8 of the times I tried, at various hours of the day.
Ultimately, I was able to get service for my reservation by texting 33582. A great agent helped me out in about 4 hours. Messages back and forth took about 10 minutes to get a response after an agent came on the line, and the agent was having trouble seeing the itinerary I wanted on the AF A350 and DL suites, but was able to manually sell it in the end and I got the flights I wanted in Sept and Oct.
One other note: when reissuing the ticket, many agents will default to stating "this ticket will still be nonrefundable, nontransferable, and any further changes would result in penalties and fare differences." I pushed back by asking about the original fare rules and whether they apply, and the backtracked and acknowledged that the ticket is refundable. This is valuable because as far as I can tell, it's the only official communication from Delta that the ticket is in fact fully flexible, so if I run into any issues with seeking a refund or fare difference waiver I have documentation to fall back on.
Good luck to those with cancelled flights/reservations. If you booked with Delta, I would feel confident in your ability to reinstate and change your reservation as needed.
Jun 14, 2020, 10:35 pm
#1419
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: YVR/LAX/PVG/TPE
Posts: 756
I called on last Saturday midnight pacific time, and waited for about 40 min. The agent said she could not issue a refund by herself and had to refer to refund department. Monday I got an email that states it had begun processing. So fingers crossed.
I intend to move the next one by just a few days, but not sure if it can happen or not, everything surrounding EU is changing fast, while entry/exit/transit info, especially for Hungary, is all over the place. Will delay calling as long as possible I guess.
I saved up a few pages of discussion on the old thread, hoping that I can gain some insight about everything surrounding this tix, but never would I know the entire thread could be gone. Dang it!
I intend to move the next one by just a few days, but not sure if it can happen or not, everything surrounding EU is changing fast, while entry/exit/transit info, especially for Hungary, is all over the place. Will delay calling as long as possible I guess.
I saved up a few pages of discussion on the old thread, hoping that I can gain some insight about everything surrounding this tix, but never would I know the entire thread could be gone. Dang it!
Jun 15, 2020, 5:35 am
#1421
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Surrey
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, Eurostar CB, IHG Spire, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz President Circle
Posts: 435
Jun 15, 2020, 5:44 am
#1422
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 205
via FB: no response
via Twitter: no reponse
Today I called, just saying there have been changes to my route (Delta schedule changes, but basically nothing changed apart from flight numbers) and mentioned the quarantine in HNL and if I could change the route to just YVR. Then she said she will be right back with options. I then asked if it was free of charge, it was, then I let her adjust one date and that was it. Received new etickets via email.
My two previous calls did not yield any success, by the way.
edit: Sadly, the amount of Flying Blue miles I will earn has been drastically reduced. But that is a caveat I am more than willing to accept.
via Twitter: no reponse
Today I called, just saying there have been changes to my route (Delta schedule changes, but basically nothing changed apart from flight numbers) and mentioned the quarantine in HNL and if I could change the route to just YVR. Then she said she will be right back with options. I then asked if it was free of charge, it was, then I let her adjust one date and that was it. Received new etickets via email.
My two previous calls did not yield any success, by the way.
edit: Sadly, the amount of Flying Blue miles I will earn has been drastically reduced. But that is a caveat I am more than willing to accept.
Last edited by altalk08; Jun 15, 2020 at 5:49 am
Jun 15, 2020, 5:50 am
#1423
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Surrey
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, Eurostar CB, IHG Spire, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz President Circle
Posts: 435
via FB: no response
via Twitter: no reponse
Today I called, just saying there have been changes to my route (Delta schedule changes, but basically nothing changed apart from flight numbers) and mentioned the quarantine in HNL and if I could change the route to just YVR. Then she said she will be right back with options. I then asked if it was free of charge, it was, then I let her adjust one date and that was it.
My two previous calls did not yield any success, by the way.
edit: Sadly, the amount of Flying Blue miles I will earn has been drastically reduced. But that is a caveat I am more than willing to accept.
via Twitter: no reponse
Today I called, just saying there have been changes to my route (Delta schedule changes, but basically nothing changed apart from flight numbers) and mentioned the quarantine in HNL and if I could change the route to just YVR. Then she said she will be right back with options. I then asked if it was free of charge, it was, then I let her adjust one date and that was it.
My two previous calls did not yield any success, by the way.
edit: Sadly, the amount of Flying Blue miles I will earn has been drastically reduced. But that is a caveat I am more than willing to accept.
Jun 15, 2020, 8:28 pm
#1425
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: AA Plat Pro; DL Gold; UA Silver; IHG Plat; Marriott Titanium; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 104
shoot can someone share a copy of the full fare basis I2FFHU in the previous format with the wording about fully refundable? orbitz quoting updated fare rules saying free to cancel and rebook but NOT free refund. shady change on behalf of AF / KLM.
Looking for fare basis info to re-dispute my charge again with chase. thanks!
Looking for fare basis info to re-dispute my charge again with chase. thanks!