Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Apr 18, 2020, 11:59 am
#961
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: DL DM/MM
Posts: 2,271
I booked one of these tickets but cancelled within the 24-hour penalty-free period. I called AF to cancel the ticket, and agent processed it and issued me a refund number. She told me to wait up to 3 weeks for the refund to appear on my bank statement. It's been well over a month now, and nothing has shown up on my credit card. I called AF (and a DL agent picked up), and agent told me that it's queued up. I get that AF is probably backed up in terms of refund requests, but this is ridiculous. Given the global situation at the moment, you'd think that they'd staff the refunds department with more personnel to handle the volume of requests. Then again, given the shadiness of KL/AF only offering vouchers for cancelled flights--that is, until the DOT stepped in with an explicit directive requiring that airlines refund passengers for cancelled flights--I'm wondering if KL/AF is just trying to hold onto people's money for as long as possible...
Apr 18, 2020, 12:02 pm
#962
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: STR-BUD-ZRH-MUC-FRA
Posts: 210
Yes Viktor is premature "Kindergarten" but he has installed the emergency government (rule by decret w/o parlament) for unlimited time - unlimited if you understand this word? As Viktor has shown the recent years he is a guy who won't be influenced by anybody (or even the EU, for him they are jewish enimies)
Last edited by Tenere; Apr 18, 2020 at 12:09 pm
Apr 18, 2020, 12:08 pm
#963
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: STR-BUD-ZRH-MUC-FRA
Posts: 210
I booked one of these tickets but cancelled within the 24-hour penalty-free period. I called AF to cancel the ticket, and agent processed it and issued me a refund number. She told me to wait up to 3 weeks for the refund to appear on my bank statement. It's been well over a month now, and nothing has shown up on my credit card. I called AF (and a DL agent picked up), and agent told me that it's queued up. I get that AF is probably backed up in terms of refund requests, but this is ridiculous. Given the global situation at the moment, you'd think that they'd staff the refunds department with more personnel to handle the volume of requests. Then again, given the shadiness of KL/AF only offering vouchers for cancelled flights--that is, until the DOT stepped in with an explicit directive requiring that airlines refund passengers for cancelled flights--I'm wondering if KL/AF is just trying to hold onto people's money for as long as possible...
Apr 18, 2020, 12:41 pm
#964
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: DL DM/MM
Posts: 2,271
Totally -- that's why this whole situation is super dodgy. AF/KL has lately shown that they're not trustworthy. Because the DOT regulates anything that touches US soil, AF/KL are subject to these rules, and at the moment, they are violating a regulation. I think there are several ways to go about addressing this issue, including being patient, filing a complaint with the DOT, and/or calling the credit card company and do a charge back. For those who might be struggling financially, especially given the global economic downturn and those who might have been furloughed or laid off, it's ridiculous that the airlines continue to hold onto people's money (interest free) for what feels like an indefinite and undefined amount of time.
Apr 18, 2020, 12:49 pm
#965
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: STR-BUD-ZRH-MUC-FRA
Posts: 210
Totally -- that's why this whole situation is super dodgy. AF/KL has lately shown that they're not trustworthy. Because the DOT regulates anything that touches US soil, AF/KL are subject to these rules, and at the moment, they are violating a regulation. I think there are several ways to go about addressing this issue, including being patient, filing a complaint with the DOT, and/or calling the credit card company and do a charge back. For those who might be struggling financially, especially given the global economic downturn and those who might have been furloughed or laid off, it's ridiculous that the airlines continue to hold onto people's money (interest free) for what feels like an indefinite and undefined amount of time.
It is also illegal to stop paying your suppliers after the payment terms have been achieved - companies do it anyway! As long as there is no judge, this will work -and most companies are willing to risk the court case as it's better than loosing cash!
It's sad but it's true!
With the airlines you can try to do charge-back with creditcard after you have set 7 days deadline for payment after cancelation confirmation received. I'm afraid that sooner or later airlines won't anymore confirm cancelations in order not to risk the creditcard charge back...
Last edited by Tenere; Apr 19, 2020 at 6:03 am
Apr 18, 2020, 1:19 pm
#966
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: M&M
Posts: 992
I am not worried about not being able to fly to BUD in June. There should be no issue for me entering the country as Dutch national and there's a daily flight which still operates out of Eindhoven to position me. My intention is still to fly this thing in June. I'll see about the rest of the segments later on.
Again, their gov't is saying they expect cases to peak early-mid summer. What makes you think 1) they're wrong and 2) they're going to lift restrictions before then? Also what do you lose by not rebooking a cancelled flight departing in June right now?
Apr 18, 2020, 1:38 pm
#967
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: STR-BUD-ZRH-MUC-FRA
Posts: 210
and please remember that the current leader Viktor isnot a person who is interested to let foreign guest in country who want to fly from BUD only.
That reason might be very last one he would agree to let you in!
That reason might be very last one he would agree to let you in!
Apr 19, 2020, 12:04 pm
#968
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
I just opened a recent FAQ of Aeroflot for agents and it says that IATA Resolution 017f (section C) requires that changes to other than first ticket COUPON before departure only triggers current fares repricing. The change from 'first fare component' to 'first coupon' was on 17 April 2018. Can anyone confirm this is the case or shall be the case?
Unfortunately most IATA resolutions are not available for free access.
Added: from another communication I can see that 17 April 2018 was the date SU updated its rules to conform with IATA resolution, however, the resolution itself was updated earlier (or maybe have always saing 'flight' or 'coupon').
Unfortunately most IATA resolutions are not available for free access.
Added: from another communication I can see that 17 April 2018 was the date SU updated its rules to conform with IATA resolution, however, the resolution itself was updated earlier (or maybe have always saing 'flight' or 'coupon').
Last edited by Keter; Apr 19, 2020 at 12:12 pm
Apr 19, 2020, 12:28 pm
#969
Join Date: Mar 2018
Programs: DL DM, FB Gold
Posts: 296
I don't think it has. As of today you can only enter Hungary if you are either a HU citizen or a EAA citizen who's also a permanent resident of HU. With the usual exceptions for crew, etc. of course.
Apr 20, 2020, 11:53 am
#970
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 205
Well... maybe "doomsayer" Tenere will be right after all. The Czech government apparently contemplates to close borders for a full year (https://news.expats.cz/weekly-czech-...t-milos-zeman/). If Hungary follows suit, which I think Orban is capable of, this could get interesting.
Apr 20, 2020, 12:41 pm
#971
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: STR-BUD-ZRH-MUC-FRA
Posts: 210
Well... maybe "doomsayer" Tenere will be right after all. The Czech government apparently contemplates to close borders for a full year (https://news.expats.cz/weekly-czech-...t-milos-zeman/). If Hungary follows suit, which I think Orban is capable of, this could get interesting.
Apr 20, 2020, 12:54 pm
#972
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: VIE/PRG
Programs: FB Platinum, Marriott Platinum Elite
Posts: 1,592
Don’t worry about Zeman. He is walking trash and his populist words aren’t taken seriously here in Czech. As previous poster said, now I’m not worried about Europe (examples as Spain or Italy aside) but what’s going to be like in Hawaii?
Apr 20, 2020, 4:42 pm
#973
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 244
If it's a Delta ticket: Their waiver allows free changes for travel up until 6/30 if you keep the new travel dates before 6/30. This includes change fee and fare difference. If you want to rebook for Feb 2021 the change fee would definitely be waived but I guess it depends on the agent whether they would charge a fare difference (and if so, it could be that the fare difference is 0).
https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisori...e-requirements
- For international travel originally scheduled to depart March through September 30, 2020, all change fees are waived.
- You can rebook your trip to the same destination for travel departing before September 30, 2020, with no difference in fare applied.
- For trips rebooked to the same destination for travel departing October 1, 2020 – September 30, 2022, there will be no change fees. If there is a difference in price, the fare difference will apply.
Apr 20, 2020, 7:03 pm
#974
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PlatMM, BA and Alaska Emerald, HHonors DIA, Accor, Marriott Titanium, IHG Plat Amb, UA Silver, AA
Posts: 4,513
As of 4/17, it's been extended to 9/30:
https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisori...e-requirements
https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisori...e-requirements
- For international travel originally scheduled to depart March through September 30, 2020, all change fees are waived.
- You can rebook your trip to the same destination for travel departing before September 30, 2020, with no difference in fare applied.
- For trips rebooked to the same destination for travel departing October 1, 2020 – September 30, 2022, there will be no change fees. If there is a difference in price, the fare difference will apply.
