Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Mar 18, 2020, 8:44 am
#496
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: MUC
Programs: TK Elite, FB Gold
Posts: 315
What is the arrangement for the carrier reimbursing out-of-pocket expenses made in reliance upon the ticket? Has anyone actually ever received this reimbursement from an airline? If yes what exactly can you get covered:
- Hotel/rental car booking at your destination
- Airport Hotel the night before travel (e. g. for 6:30am BUD departures)
- Feeder flights to/from the point of departure
...
- Hotel/rental car booking at your destination
- Airport Hotel the night before travel (e. g. for 6:30am BUD departures)
- Feeder flights to/from the point of departure
...
Mar 18, 2020, 8:54 am
#498
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Programs: BA, JAL
Posts: 689
I left the next day after buying it. But in case the airline cancels the ticket after it has been partly used I assume you would still receive a full refund? And I guess the airline is not responsible for transporting you back but you could try recovering the cost of a replacement return flight under the DoT provisions for reimbursement of out-of-pocket expenses?
Another poster, gave some details about the difficulty in claiming. In general, the chances of a cancellation after flying are low.
Would EU261 be involved and valid if you book within 14 days? My assumption is it would be, but I might be wrong.
I would think that they cannot cancel within 14 days of flight if the cancelled leg is either outbound out of Europe (any airline), or a European carrier (metal) returning to EU without owing you compensation. The legal argument is better discussed by someone with more knowledge than me.
Mar 18, 2020, 9:20 am
#499
Join Date: Mar 2018
Programs: DL DM, FB Gold
Posts: 296
this is not about flight delays. But I think it’s great that you are so self confident.Here some background reading for you:
- Sometimes, due to computer errors, airlines may offer a fare by mistake. For example, an airline may accidentally list a first-class ticket from New York to Dubai for $1, a price far lower than the typical fare price. When this happens, airlines may cancel any reservations booked at the mistaken fare price, but airlines are required to reimburse consumers for the full ticket price, all optional services purchased, and any reasonable, actual, and verifiable out-of-pocket expenses that were made in reliance upon the ticket purchase (for example, non-refundable hotel or rental car reservations). https://www.transportation.gov/indiv.../buying-ticket
Mar 18, 2020, 9:22 am
#500
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PlatMM, BA and Alaska Emerald, HHonors DIA, Accor, Marriott Titanium, IHG Plat Amb, UA Silver, AA
Posts: 4,515
Beyounged, when you were trying to change on DL.com, the new fare would not show "HUF 0" -- it would show the same fare as your paid. For me, I found an outbound 8 days earlier that did work (BUD-STT) and it showed HUF187,100, which is what I paid. The other days showed HUF1,150,000 etc. Just confirming that Delta doesn't show HUF 0 for anything.
However, when looking at a KLM booking I have, their website does show "US$0" when making changes. So it depends which airline's website you're on for what to look for.
However, when looking at a KLM booking I have, their website does show "US$0" when making changes. So it depends which airline's website you're on for what to look for.
Mar 18, 2020, 9:28 am
#501
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: MUC
Programs: TK Elite, FB Gold
Posts: 315
Mar 18, 2020, 9:41 am
#502
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
You must be new to this. No, this isn’t proof of anything.
IF they want to cancel the tickets, it can take them anywhere from 2 days to 6 weeks. And that is during normal times. I guess that in these Co-Vid times, they probably have other things on their minds.
Of course, as long as the tickets aren’t cancelled, they remain valid and everyone can fly.
IF they want to cancel the tickets, it can take them anywhere from 2 days to 6 weeks. And that is during normal times. I guess that in these Co-Vid times, they probably have other things on their minds.
Of course, as long as the tickets aren’t cancelled, they remain valid and everyone can fly.
Mar 18, 2020, 9:46 am
#503
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 205
My question is, what happens when someone asks the airline to rebook/change a segment and that change gets made by the airline (e.g. due to an agent being too busy to care about your particular fare). Does this constitute a situation in which the airline received information about the fare, did not cancel and would therefore be unable to cancel in the future?
Mar 18, 2020, 10:01 am
#504
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
Mar 18, 2020, 10:13 am
#505
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 205
"Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States (...)"
Then, due to the policy update (https://www.transportation.gov/sites...05082015_0.pdf):
"“As a matter of prosecutorial discretion, the Enforcement Office will not enforce the requirement of section 399.88 with regard to mistaken fares occurring on or after the date of this notice so long as the airline or seller of air transportation: (1) demonstrates that the fare was a mistaken fare; and (2) reimburses all consumers who purchased a mistaken fare ticket for any reasonable, actual, and verifiable out-of-pocket expenses that were made in reliance upon the ticket purchase, in addition to refunding the purchase price of the ticket. These expenses include, but are not limited to, non-refundable hotel reservations, destination tour packages or activities, cancellation fees for non-refundable connecting air travel and visa or other international travel fees.”
So, in my view, this fare should be covered concerning the expenses (non-ref. hotel reservations etc.) mentioned. However, as always, it might be a hassle to really push the airline to honor this policy.
edit: regarding enforcing the policy: you would need to file a DOT complaint (can this be done online) to pressure the airline.
Last edited by altalk08; Mar 18, 2020 at 10:26 am
Mar 18, 2020, 10:37 am
#506
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PlatMM, BA and Alaska Emerald, HHonors DIA, Accor, Marriott Titanium, IHG Plat Amb, UA Silver, AA
Posts: 4,515
I'm baffled by all of the people who are already pulling out the supporting documents about error fares being cancelled when not one thing has happened. Also, Delta has generally NOT cancelled them in the past. True, these are crazy days-- but that also could mean that DL was offering some crazy good fares. So, wow, relax everyone.
Mar 18, 2020, 10:38 am
#507
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
Thanks, so should be any itinerary touching the US by my read.
In answer to your above: I don't know that there are any specific rules about the carrier having "touched" it so it's safe. In essence I think they can cancel at any point [pursuant to the above provisions] but I would guess that after a few weeks talking to frontline agents ought to be safe - hardly their job to go around policing what people have paid and the revenue folks will have had their chance to cancel them if they are so inclined. The fact that this is in HUF might help too, depending on whether the system shows agents an equivalent USD amount - if not they may well not realise that they are looking at a very low fare.
That they pulled Hawai'i on Saturday and left the Lower 48 available until Sunday suggests to me that they were at least happy with the latter set.
In answer to your above: I don't know that there are any specific rules about the carrier having "touched" it so it's safe. In essence I think they can cancel at any point [pursuant to the above provisions] but I would guess that after a few weeks talking to frontline agents ought to be safe - hardly their job to go around policing what people have paid and the revenue folks will have had their chance to cancel them if they are so inclined. The fact that this is in HUF might help too, depending on whether the system shows agents an equivalent USD amount - if not they may well not realise that they are looking at a very low fare.
That they pulled Hawai'i on Saturday and left the Lower 48 available until Sunday suggests to me that they were at least happy with the latter set.
Mar 18, 2020, 10:43 am
#508
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
I'm baffled by all of the people who are already pulling out the supporting documents about error fares being cancelled when not one thing has happened. Also, Delta has generally NOT cancelled them in the past. True, these are crazy days-- but that also could mean that DL was offering some crazy good fares. So, wow, relax everyone.
Mar 18, 2020, 10:48 am
#509
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: YVR/LAX/PVG/TPE
Posts: 759
Beyounged, when you were trying to change on DL.com, the new fare would not show "HUF 0" -- it would show the same fare as your paid. For me, I found an outbound 8 days earlier that did work (BUD-STT) and it showed HUF187,100, which is what I paid. The other days showed HUF1,150,000 etc. Just confirming that Delta doesn't show HUF 0 for anything.
However, when looking at a KLM booking I have, their website does show "US$0" when making changes. So it depends which airline's website you're on for what to look for.
However, when looking at a KLM booking I have, their website does show "US$0" when making changes. So it depends which airline's website you're on for what to look for.
Mar 18, 2020, 11:35 am
#510
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 205
I'm baffled by all of the people who are already pulling out the supporting documents about error fares being cancelled when not one thing has happened. Also, Delta has generally NOT cancelled them in the past. True, these are crazy days-- but that also could mean that DL was offering some crazy good fares. So, wow, relax everyone.