Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Jul 10, 2022, 7:03 am
#3032
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
It seems the availability is more open for flights operated by ITA/ AZ however getting all flights under dl codes might be an issue (otherwise the automated/ quick reprice under a waiver code will not work), otherwise I inventory is very limited). Making an agent like Orbitz to apply that waiver is an unreal challenge too i guess.... And a DL agent a month ago told me same - all coronavirus waiver has expired.
Still want to try to change one of my open tickets...
Still want to try to change one of my open tickets...
Jul 10, 2022, 7:30 am
#3033
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,811
Try different DL offices outside the US. Some agents will only say "Call DL in the US", others may be willing to help.
Jul 11, 2022, 3:33 am
#3036
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
To confusion i was referring to 'rapid reprice' scheme referred to in Bulletin 6 (which says the waiver code should be automatically added to the endorsement box) and not to the actual itinerary auto-repricing (which should use current fares, for unused tickets at least). For one of my itineraries the waiver code did not work (the DL agent kindly told me) and I think the reason is that it contained flights not permitted by the Bulletin as reaccommodation flights (ie AF marketed and operated).
(Added): Actually having looked into that it seems rapid reprice in Travelport is same as automated exchange in other GDSs. In any case my thought was that applying rapid reprice with a waiver should result in quick/ automated even exchange.
(Added): Actually having looked into that it seems rapid reprice in Travelport is same as automated exchange in other GDSs. In any case my thought was that applying rapid reprice with a waiver should result in quick/ automated even exchange.
Jul 11, 2022, 5:25 am
#3037
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: M&M
Posts: 992
They are not that hung up about the AFKLDL code issue because it makes no sense to them either. I was allowed to do AF prime overwater without any issues (agent discussed it w/whomever and said "sure it's ok"). Definitely not a problem for shorthaul flights. They don't seem to be that flexible about VS or AZ; they denied me DL coded VS on another ticket even though the original itinerary had just that.
Re: rapid reprice: but wouldn't rapid reprice require Travelport to be able to pull up the original fare details that are a goner now?
Re: rapid reprice: but wouldn't rapid reprice require Travelport to be able to pull up the original fare details that are a goner now?
Jul 16, 2022, 12:51 pm
#3038
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 114
I am turning to this board again for help with this ticket since you folks have been extremely knowledgeable and helpful in the past. I got the ticket reissued before Mar/27/2022 and have recently flown the first segment BUD-CDG-DTW-SEA.
The return is in the next few weeks and through AMS and the last leg is AMS-BUD on KLM. I am thinking of changing the already issued ticket to take a break of a few days in AMS by moving the US-AMS flight to a few days earlier.
1) Is this still allowed? The original allowed changes to the itinerary as long you had flown at least the first segment.
2) Do I have to maintain the same intermediate airports in the US on way to Europe or can I change them? I will keep origin airport and the destination the same, as well as keep itinerary through AMS.
Which bulletin is now applicable to this? Is it 6 or 11?
As well if you need any help with CDG/ORY/BUD (or public transportation in these cities) please ask me.
The return is in the next few weeks and through AMS and the last leg is AMS-BUD on KLM. I am thinking of changing the already issued ticket to take a break of a few days in AMS by moving the US-AMS flight to a few days earlier.
1) Is this still allowed? The original allowed changes to the itinerary as long you had flown at least the first segment.
2) Do I have to maintain the same intermediate airports in the US on way to Europe or can I change them? I will keep origin airport and the destination the same, as well as keep itinerary through AMS.
Which bulletin is now applicable to this? Is it 6 or 11?
As well if you need any help with CDG/ORY/BUD (or public transportation in these cities) please ask me.
Jul 16, 2022, 12:55 pm
#3039
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,811
Just call/message them and try.
If you keep it in I class and the same cities, I don’t think you will face any issues. If you try to change the routing, I think that would also be allowed, but if they will do it… Just give it a few tries.
However, I don’t know if they will let you add a stopover. But just try.
If you keep it in I class and the same cities, I don’t think you will face any issues. If you try to change the routing, I think that would also be allowed, but if they will do it… Just give it a few tries.
However, I don’t know if they will let you add a stopover. But just try.
Jul 16, 2022, 2:26 pm
#3040
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: M&M
Posts: 992
1) Is this still allowed? The original allowed changes to the itinerary as long you had flown at least the first segment.
2) Do I have to maintain the same intermediate airports in the US on way to Europe or can I change them? I will keep origin airport and the destination the same, as well as keep itinerary through AMS.
2) Do I have to maintain the same intermediate airports in the US on way to Europe or can I change them? I will keep origin airport and the destination the same, as well as keep itinerary through AMS.
2) No, you can route any which way you want (as long as within MPM and transfer restrictions which was 2 transfers on DL online in the US). Unlimited number of stopovers are allowed at any intermediate point.
The problem you're likely going to face is the fare has expired from the GDS' so agents might have trouble looking you the fare rules. Insist, persist, give them all the details you can (see sticky at top) and you shall have your way eventually. Trying to speak to the international reissue desk might expedite things.
(also the poster above is telling you incorrect information)
Jul 17, 2022, 5:45 pm
#3041
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 114
1) Yes.
2) No, you can route any which way you want (as long as within MPM and transfer restrictions which was 2 transfers on DL online in the US). Unlimited number of stopovers are allowed at any intermediate point.
The problem you're likely going to face is the fare has expired from the GDS' so agents might have trouble looking you the fare rules. Insist, persist, give them all the details you can (see sticky at top) and you shall have your way eventually. Trying to speak to the international reissue desk might expedite things.
(also the poster above is telling you incorrect information)
2) No, you can route any which way you want (as long as within MPM and transfer restrictions which was 2 transfers on DL online in the US). Unlimited number of stopovers are allowed at any intermediate point.
The problem you're likely going to face is the fare has expired from the GDS' so agents might have trouble looking you the fare rules. Insist, persist, give them all the details you can (see sticky at top) and you shall have your way eventually. Trying to speak to the international reissue desk might expedite things.
(also the poster above is telling you incorrect information)
I am assuming the fare rules of the original ticket permit the unlimited stopovers (and have nothing to do with the Bulletin 6/11 anymore.)
HAWAII fare I2FFHU rules.pdf - Google Drive
The agent couldn't get the exception to apply automatically, I am waiting on manual review now.
Jul 17, 2022, 5:48 pm
#3042
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,811
That's an interesting statement, considering that I suggested contacting the airline.
Even if it's allowed by the original fare rules, after dealing with Delta myself and seeing the reports from this thread, I wouldn't be so confident that one can get everything implemented per the original fare rules. There were several reports from people who had flown the first segments being unsuccessful making changes.
That doesn't mean it's not worth trying. I got all my tickets changed exactly the way I wanted them - I even got the BUD segments dropped from one booking, starting at CDG and arriving into AMS.
Even if it's allowed by the original fare rules, after dealing with Delta myself and seeing the reports from this thread, I wouldn't be so confident that one can get everything implemented per the original fare rules. There were several reports from people who had flown the first segments being unsuccessful making changes.
That doesn't mean it's not worth trying. I got all my tickets changed exactly the way I wanted them - I even got the BUD segments dropped from one booking, starting at CDG and arriving into AMS.
Jul 18, 2022, 4:35 pm
#3043
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: M&M
Posts: 992
Correct. If the fare had change fees etc the bulletin might matter but since by fare rules the ticket was fully flexible you can disregard it. There's also no need for any kind of exceptions for the same reason. They might insist on recalculating the ticket (ie whether you go over MPM so they can collect like $3 extra or different airport taxes apply, etc). The only provision that applies from any of the bulletins is travel has to be done by Dec 31 2022.
Jul 18, 2022, 6:58 pm
#3044
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 114
Correct. If the fare had change fees etc the bulletin might matter but since by fare rules the ticket was fully flexible you can disregard it. There's also no need for any kind of exceptions for the same reason. They might insist on recalculating the ticket (ie whether you go over MPM so they can collect like $3 extra or different airport taxes apply, etc). The only provision that applies from any of the bulletins is travel has to be done by Dec 31 2022.
Much better experience than the time when I had to actually revive the ticket and had to HUCA to get them to use the old fare rules.
Jul 20, 2022, 12:54 pm
#3045
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
Called DL for an Orbitz issued ticket, asked to get connected to international manual reissue desk (have to call US working hours as I understand) and the agent told me she could see some notes when I tried to explain I would like to use the same origin/ destination rebooking option. I was not sure what the notes were saying but the next agent I called told me exactly what the notes are about: these were basically about Bullitin 6 INT provisions - even exchange for same fare.
The second agent wanted to reclaculate the price as of now before I asked him to check the notes.
Suprisingly neither agent tried to tell me this is the agent ticket and the system will not allow them to make changes or smth similar (normally this requires 'i will pay USD 50 takeover fee' to move further).
My problem seems to be just availability now, but this is first world problem somewhat if anything else is resolved (just did not expect a nice suprise in the form of the 'notes').
Not sure where the notes come from actually: it could be because I called Orbitz earlier to confirm with DL that they can apply Bulletin 6 INT. I have not called Orbitz yet to actually check if they received any clerance from Delta on that matter. Initially the Orbiz agent insisted the reprice/ new ticket is the only option as many would expect.
Added: successfully changed the ticket - the agent was very knowledgable on how to search for complex itinerary availability, used different methods from what I understand. Well done!
? Would be actually interesting to know if all DL tickets have these 'notes' or not. Be sure to ask to check the notes if you call!
The second agent wanted to reclaculate the price as of now before I asked him to check the notes.
Suprisingly neither agent tried to tell me this is the agent ticket and the system will not allow them to make changes or smth similar (normally this requires 'i will pay USD 50 takeover fee' to move further).
My problem seems to be just availability now, but this is first world problem somewhat if anything else is resolved (just did not expect a nice suprise in the form of the 'notes').
Not sure where the notes come from actually: it could be because I called Orbitz earlier to confirm with DL that they can apply Bulletin 6 INT. I have not called Orbitz yet to actually check if they received any clerance from Delta on that matter. Initially the Orbiz agent insisted the reprice/ new ticket is the only option as many would expect.
Added: successfully changed the ticket - the agent was very knowledgable on how to search for complex itinerary availability, used different methods from what I understand. Well done!
? Would be actually interesting to know if all DL tickets have these 'notes' or not. Be sure to ask to check the notes if you call!
Last edited by Keter; Jul 21, 2022 at 12:50 am