Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Feb 15, 2022, 11:25 pm
#2956
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 776
the question is : does the fare rule allow to add a stopover.
We already know it allow change without fee and using historical fares, but not sure how it works relating to add free stopover on the way (knowing the fare has unlimited free stopover)
Feb 18, 2022, 12:25 pm
#2957
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Dark Side Of The Moon
Programs: SQ, DL
Posts: 11
I was able to add a free stopover to my outbound and return flights. Original outbound, August 2021, was BUD->CDG->SFO on Air France with a 2.5 hour layover in CDG. Was able to add a 3 day stopover in CDG without any issues. Return flights are in August 2022. Original return flights in December 2021, which I cancelled, were SFO->DTW->AMS->BUD on Delta with layovers in DTW and AMS. Since it was a voluntary cancellation and with no "I" class being available on the requested travel dates on Delta, a nice ticketing specialist at Delta found me "I" class flights on Air France, SFO->CDG->BUD for August. A few weeks ago I found "I" class availability on Delta. Took a chance and called Delta to see if I could change my flights back to SFO->DTW->AMS->BUD. Explained to the ticketing specialist that at the time of rebooking there were no "I" class availability and I wanted to experience Delta One suites and if she could also add a 3 day stopover in AMS. Without any pushback she made the changes and added the stopover in AMS. From my own experience it is possible to add a stopover but YMMV.
Mar 10, 2022, 10:08 am
#2958
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
Moved our second trip up from October to April due to unexpected availability on my wife's part. We'd flown the first legs from BUD a few weeks ago, so this was an after departure change. It took two goes on messenger. The original tickets were originally booked as BUD-AMS//AMS-DTW-SDF//BNA-MSP-AMS//AMS-BUD, but it turns out that this fared with DTW as the break point. I changed the "destinations" to BNA and LEX respectively not long after booking, and reroutes to try to preserve D1 Suites had long since removed DTW from the routing when it was parked in July 2020. Upon reinstatement in November, the parked "destinations" were booked without mention of DTW, however, when it came to changing the flights now the first two agents were insistent that the routing had to go through DTW to avoid a reprice.
It seemed fairly evident that they were just throwing out possible reasons rather than having a certain answer why repricing was happening. I was variously told that I couldn't have more than two connections [I already did], that there was a change fee, that changeable fares were repriced even after departure, and that seasonality and/or stopovers could not be changed. Quoting them the fare rules just caused them to move to a different excuse, and one even annotated the PNR that I was "arguing [my] interpretation of the fare rules" - I presume after I pointed out that only I was quoting the rules, and they were not.
The first agent having basically told me to pay the difference or sod off, off I sodded. I untook the second attemp forearmed with backup options routing us through DTW. The second agent here provided some of the above excuses, but did seem willing to try some other options once I "resigned myself" to hitting DTW. She then went on break/off shift and I was picked up by a fantastic third agent who was only too happy to help. Suggested some routings that hadn't seemed to have I space for me, but first tried my backup - which also improved the trip for us, since Nashville was only ever a random tourist stop. Finally that worked...! There was a little extra to pay, so she called me to get the payment details and we ended up having a bit of a chat. She was curious how I knew so much about the fare, so I had to give credit to the teamwork here. She also confirmed that she had been looking up the 2020 fares for repricing, and I offhandedly mentioned that I thought my original request should have refared with the break in NYC and little price change. She went off and looked that up [the previous agent had been the one to do so originally], returning to mention that it should indeed have worked and might even have been a bit cheaper. Having been at it for a good few hours - and also having improved the trip from the original version anyway - I declined her offer to try it. Quite what the first two agents had been refaring against, I'm not sure - I wonder if it could have been the fares from the time of the reinstatement?
So now we have AMS-ORD//MDW-DTW-LEX//LEX-DCA//IAD-CDG-AMS//AMS-BUD coming up, allowing us to visit various people we've not seen since The Before Times. Some notes by way of advice [to justify this lengthy story]:
It seemed fairly evident that they were just throwing out possible reasons rather than having a certain answer why repricing was happening. I was variously told that I couldn't have more than two connections [I already did], that there was a change fee, that changeable fares were repriced even after departure, and that seasonality and/or stopovers could not be changed. Quoting them the fare rules just caused them to move to a different excuse, and one even annotated the PNR that I was "arguing [my] interpretation of the fare rules" - I presume after I pointed out that only I was quoting the rules, and they were not.
The first agent having basically told me to pay the difference or sod off, off I sodded. I untook the second attemp forearmed with backup options routing us through DTW. The second agent here provided some of the above excuses, but did seem willing to try some other options once I "resigned myself" to hitting DTW. She then went on break/off shift and I was picked up by a fantastic third agent who was only too happy to help. Suggested some routings that hadn't seemed to have I space for me, but first tried my backup - which also improved the trip for us, since Nashville was only ever a random tourist stop. Finally that worked...! There was a little extra to pay, so she called me to get the payment details and we ended up having a bit of a chat. She was curious how I knew so much about the fare, so I had to give credit to the teamwork here. She also confirmed that she had been looking up the 2020 fares for repricing, and I offhandedly mentioned that I thought my original request should have refared with the break in NYC and little price change. She went off and looked that up [the previous agent had been the one to do so originally], returning to mention that it should indeed have worked and might even have been a bit cheaper. Having been at it for a good few hours - and also having improved the trip from the original version anyway - I declined her offer to try it. Quite what the first two agents had been refaring against, I'm not sure - I wonder if it could have been the fares from the time of the reinstatement?
So now we have AMS-ORD//MDW-DTW-LEX//LEX-DCA//IAD-CDG-AMS//AMS-BUD coming up, allowing us to visit various people we've not seen since The Before Times. Some notes by way of advice [to justify this lengthy story]:
- Persistence and HUCA clearly key, especially since trying to point out how the fare rules contradict what the agent is saying seemed to fall entirely on deaf ears.
- Neither ITA nor ExpertFlyer were matching what they agents had exactly, so you might have to ask them for suggestions.
- Third agent did say the overwater legs had to be on DL codes, so no XP bonuses AIUI.
- I added two stopovers with this change, don't know exactly what bumped the price up though [about €80 each].
Mar 14, 2022, 3:31 pm
#2959
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: NYC
Posts: 117
So I'm having issues "un-parking" my 006 ticket to book flights this year.
After going back and forth with a bunch of various CSR through iMessage, I was finally routed to the "international reissues department."
They said that International bulletin 5 and 6 have expired and no longer applies, and that I can only use the eCredit based on the value I paid. I tried to explain that it clearly states in Bulletin 6 that as long as I can find the fare code I, that it should not trigger a reprice, but they just kept saying there was nothing they could do about it and that that bulletin no longer applies and there isn't an updated bulletin. I successfully unparked a ticket on 6/2021, so not sure why 9 months later I'm getting the runaround
Any advice on this? How on earth can they just expire a bulletin that states we can book the flights through 12/31/22? Am I in the wrong here?
Thanks in advance!
After going back and forth with a bunch of various CSR through iMessage, I was finally routed to the "international reissues department."
They said that International bulletin 5 and 6 have expired and no longer applies, and that I can only use the eCredit based on the value I paid. I tried to explain that it clearly states in Bulletin 6 that as long as I can find the fare code I, that it should not trigger a reprice, but they just kept saying there was nothing they could do about it and that that bulletin no longer applies and there isn't an updated bulletin. I successfully unparked a ticket on 6/2021, so not sure why 9 months later I'm getting the runaround
Any advice on this? How on earth can they just expire a bulletin that states we can book the flights through 12/31/22? Am I in the wrong here?
Thanks in advance!
Mar 14, 2022, 3:45 pm
#2960
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
So I'm having issues "un-parking" my 006 ticket to book flights this year.
After going back and forth with a bunch of various CSR through iMessage, I was finally routed to the "international reissues department."
They said that International bulletin 5 and 6 have expired and no longer applies, and that I can only use the eCredit based on the value I paid. I tried to explain that it clearly states in Bulletin 6 that as long as I can find the fare code I, that it should not trigger a reprice, but they just kept saying there was nothing they could do about it and that that bulletin no longer applies and there isn't an updated bulletin. I successfully unparked a ticket on 6/2021, so not sure why 9 months later I'm getting the runaround
Any advice on this? How on earth can they just expire a bulletin that states we can book the flights through 12/31/22? Am I in the wrong here?
Thanks in advance!
After going back and forth with a bunch of various CSR through iMessage, I was finally routed to the "international reissues department."
They said that International bulletin 5 and 6 have expired and no longer applies, and that I can only use the eCredit based on the value I paid. I tried to explain that it clearly states in Bulletin 6 that as long as I can find the fare code I, that it should not trigger a reprice, but they just kept saying there was nothing they could do about it and that that bulletin no longer applies and there isn't an updated bulletin. I successfully unparked a ticket on 6/2021, so not sure why 9 months later I'm getting the runaround
Any advice on this? How on earth can they just expire a bulletin that states we can book the flights through 12/31/22? Am I in the wrong here?
Thanks in advance!
Mar 14, 2022, 4:18 pm
#2961
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: NYC
Posts: 117
I don’t think so - I got similar in November. Not sure it was anything but trying again that got it booked - clearly the bulletin applied when you parked it, so Delta shouldn’t be able to just change that (especially without telling you!). I suspect you just need to find an agent familiar with it, and that newer agents think it sounds like too good to be true so reject even the bulletin in front of them.
Mar 14, 2022, 4:52 pm
#2962
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: DXB
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, BA Silver, A3 Gold, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 2,811
You could try insisting that the ticket falls under EU261. Which grants you a right to a free rebooking in case the flight was canceled.
Mar 14, 2022, 9:14 pm
#2963
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: NYC
Posts: 117
Also - when I referenced my original ticket number and locator number, a couple of agents stated that I used a travel agency or website other than delta.com (Even though I purchased directly through delta.com!) They have record that it was purchased from CONNEXIONS LOYALTY TRAVEL SOLUTI, BOISE ID. What the what? Even though I tell them I have e-mail confirmation, it falls on deaf ears.
So i reference the ticket number that was issued when I parked the ticket and they have record of that. However, I'm finding issues agents aren't able to see the I fares I am finding through ITA MATRIX.
Mar 15, 2022, 1:35 am
#2964
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 776
Bulletin 6 apply only if your ticket was last reissued before April 17th 2020 and then directly parked at some time.
In my case, I was able to get a ticket reissued because of cancelled flights and will be flying to YVR next month. I have burnt my miles account to make it a family trip though 🤑
Mar 15, 2022, 1:49 am
#2965
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
Ecredit number and ticket number should be the same if you did not make any change. Did you already have changed your ticket to have different number ?
Bulletin 6 apply only if your ticket was last reissued before April 17th 2020 and then directly parked at some time.
In my case, I was able to get a ticket reissued because of cancelled flights and will be flying to YVR next month. I have burnt my miles account to make it a family trip though 🤑
Bulletin 6 apply only if your ticket was last reissued before April 17th 2020 and then directly parked at some time.
In my case, I was able to get a ticket reissued because of cancelled flights and will be flying to YVR next month. I have burnt my miles account to make it a family trip though 🤑
Mar 15, 2022, 7:26 am
#2966
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: M&M
Posts: 992
Tell them to quote you the text from bulletin 6 "book by", and ask them to go to the website where the bulletin clearly states "book by 31 Dec 2022". What has expired is the domestic bulletin 6, sometimes they confuse the two. Alternatively give them the waiver code (B3Z8F) and tell them to look it up by that.
Mar 15, 2022, 7:59 am
#2967
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
This is more or less correct, the actual rule is KL/AF/DL metal DL code or DL metal DL/KL/AF code if memory serves (pro.delta is not loading right now for some reason, can't check). Sometimes they do make an exception and let you use AF/AF and such but even they need to get a waiver for that. However there's a workaround: have your ff number scrubbed from the res and retro claim in FB with the appropriate flight number.
Mar 15, 2022, 8:20 am
#2968
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: NYC
Posts: 117
Ecredit number and ticket number should be the same if you did not make any change. Did you already have changed your ticket to have different number ?
Bulletin 6 apply only if your ticket was last reissued before April 17th 2020 and then directly parked at some time.
In my case, I was able to get a ticket reissued because of cancelled flights and will be flying to YVR next month. I have burnt my miles account to make it a family trip though 🤑
Bulletin 6 apply only if your ticket was last reissued before April 17th 2020 and then directly parked at some time.
In my case, I was able to get a ticket reissued because of cancelled flights and will be flying to YVR next month. I have burnt my miles account to make it a family trip though 🤑
What a mess.
Mar 15, 2022, 10:42 am
#2969
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 776
Unvoluntary changes are related to flight cancellation and it is therefore easier to call for EU261.
Mar 15, 2022, 1:52 pm
#2970
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: NYC
Posts: 117
Thanks all for the help - I finally was able to un-park my ticket despite the hiccups.
It took about 2 hours before I got a call-back, and then another 2 hours on the phone with a very patient and friendly agent (Brenda) to get my tickets reissued with new dates.
I figured out why my original locator number was showing up as if the ticket was purchased using a third party. When my ticket was initially reissued (when I parked in 10/2020) to a new locator and ticket #, the original locator must have been recycled, as the agent said someone else's name was listed on that locator now.
Agent was able to piece together everything based on my original ticket #. She had to go on hold numerous times to get clarification from her supervisor. Initially, even the supervisor said that I couldn't do an even-exchange. I mentioned INTL bulletin 6 and even read the section that states no price adjustments so long as fare classes don't change. I also gave her a separate ticket that I was successfully able to "un-park" for reference. She said I might have to pay additional taxes, but in the end, she was able to do it without any change in price.
If you have a confusing ticketing situation, phone call is much better to explain than iMessage.
It took about 2 hours before I got a call-back, and then another 2 hours on the phone with a very patient and friendly agent (Brenda) to get my tickets reissued with new dates.
I figured out why my original locator number was showing up as if the ticket was purchased using a third party. When my ticket was initially reissued (when I parked in 10/2020) to a new locator and ticket #, the original locator must have been recycled, as the agent said someone else's name was listed on that locator now.
Agent was able to piece together everything based on my original ticket #. She had to go on hold numerous times to get clarification from her supervisor. Initially, even the supervisor said that I couldn't do an even-exchange. I mentioned INTL bulletin 6 and even read the section that states no price adjustments so long as fare classes don't change. I also gave her a separate ticket that I was successfully able to "un-park" for reference. She said I might have to pay additional taxes, but in the end, she was able to do it without any change in price.
If you have a confusing ticketing situation, phone call is much better to explain than iMessage.
Last edited by pluu1285; Mar 15, 2022 at 1:54 pm Reason: clarifying points