Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Feb 18, 2021, 4:14 am
#2371
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
Please carefully check that the tickets are actually properly parked. I called KLM - so not a Delta-ticket - last November to park a ticket. When I called last week to rebook I was told that my ticket had not been parked at all and that I was a no-show... Agent was helpful and remedied the issue, but still...
Feb 18, 2021, 9:49 am
#2372
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
Guys I need your help again as KLM refuse to rebook with historical fares. (KL ticket stock)
Actually I have flown the first segment from BUD to AMS.
Now my flight is scheduled pretty soon which is impossible to do so I asked KLM a couple of times to rebook me to a later date which they would only do with an extreme high fare difference.
As far as I understood and the way its written in the wiki I should be able to rebook this ticket with historical fares once the ticket is partially used.
I found the following fare rules: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1veP...pD4v-2kiT/view
Can anyone underline again which exact section is the one where its written that in my case I can rebook with historical fares?
and: I think these are the rules downloaded somewhere from DL, is there a specific KLM document with these rules as well?
I also would highly appreciate any recommendations or tips on what to do best.
Thank you guys!
Actually I have flown the first segment from BUD to AMS.
Now my flight is scheduled pretty soon which is impossible to do so I asked KLM a couple of times to rebook me to a later date which they would only do with an extreme high fare difference.
As far as I understood and the way its written in the wiki I should be able to rebook this ticket with historical fares once the ticket is partially used.
I found the following fare rules: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1veP...pD4v-2kiT/view
Can anyone underline again which exact section is the one where its written that in my case I can rebook with historical fares?
and: I think these are the rules downloaded somewhere from DL, is there a specific KLM document with these rules as well?
I also would highly appreciate any recommendations or tips on what to do best.
Thank you guys!
I checked with a person having access to Amadeus and I was told he could not find the fares. All were good before we realised the requests were not correct. The fares are still there in Amadeus archive. Moreover he was able to price a new itinerary using those historic fares (using ticketing date override of course).
It is still a mystery to me how exactly these fares are blocked technically.
A Delta agent told me these are 'promo' fares and are only honored as booked, any changes trigger repricing. He could I am not 100% convinced though as Delta is known for greater flexibility here. Also he could not find the fare but at least some of the requests he made to the system were wrong (as we found out together). At this point I am always crying for potentially overcharged passengers (on standard tickets) who has no idea on what fares is and how the itineraries are priced...).
Feb 21, 2021, 3:11 pm
#2373
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: RDU
Posts: 713
Does anybody know if there is a version newer than September 21, 2020 of the "Air France & KLM COVID-19 trade rebook procedure" flowchart, i.e. the AF/KL equivalent of DL Bulletin 6? Alternatively, what is the most up-to-date AF/KL COVID change policy available in https://www.agentconnect.biz which travel agents on this forum might be able to access?
I know that regardless of what the current policy is, it very much comes down to individual agents when trying to make a change, but at least I'd like to know what the AF policy is prior to calling. In my case, I'm dealing with an AF ticket issued through Priceline with original travel dates last November. Last October after several cancellations, a competent Priceline agent moved the trip to this spring using the procedure from the flowchart linked above which he verified in agentconnect.biz while doing the class-to-class rebooking.
The reissued ticket again has several cancellations, but I don't know which flexibilities might exist this time, at least in theory. I could not find anything specific on the AF website, while the KL website still states under the "flights cancelled by the airline" section of their COVID information page "Is your new travel date 30 days before or after your original travel date? Then you can rebook for free within the same travel class (Economy Class or Business Class). However, outside of the period mentioned above, a fare difference might apply.". The first part of that answer essentially sounds like a description of the "cabin-to-cabin" rebooking option of the flowchart when a flight is cancelled, while the second part might be a very vague description of class-to-class rebooking, where the fare difference does apply if the same class isn't available.
Anyway, assuming AF has the same policy as KL, it seems that I could fairly confidently ask for rebooking within 30 days of the cancelled flights, but for anything beyond that it'd be great to know what the current policy is.
Also, the original flow chart did not mention that the COVID policy could only be applied once, and a number of reports in this thread indicate that people have applied the DL Bulletin 6 COVID exceptions more than once for a given ticket, but if anyone knows if AF does have any policy on this, that'd be great to know, too.
I know that regardless of what the current policy is, it very much comes down to individual agents when trying to make a change, but at least I'd like to know what the AF policy is prior to calling. In my case, I'm dealing with an AF ticket issued through Priceline with original travel dates last November. Last October after several cancellations, a competent Priceline agent moved the trip to this spring using the procedure from the flowchart linked above which he verified in agentconnect.biz while doing the class-to-class rebooking.
The reissued ticket again has several cancellations, but I don't know which flexibilities might exist this time, at least in theory. I could not find anything specific on the AF website, while the KL website still states under the "flights cancelled by the airline" section of their COVID information page "Is your new travel date 30 days before or after your original travel date? Then you can rebook for free within the same travel class (Economy Class or Business Class). However, outside of the period mentioned above, a fare difference might apply.". The first part of that answer essentially sounds like a description of the "cabin-to-cabin" rebooking option of the flowchart when a flight is cancelled, while the second part might be a very vague description of class-to-class rebooking, where the fare difference does apply if the same class isn't available.
Anyway, assuming AF has the same policy as KL, it seems that I could fairly confidently ask for rebooking within 30 days of the cancelled flights, but for anything beyond that it'd be great to know what the current policy is.
Also, the original flow chart did not mention that the COVID policy could only be applied once, and a number of reports in this thread indicate that people have applied the DL Bulletin 6 COVID exceptions more than once for a given ticket, but if anyone knows if AF does have any policy on this, that'd be great to know, too.
Feb 22, 2021, 2:03 am
#2374
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
Also, the original flow chart did not mention that the COVID policy could only be applied once, and a number of reports in this thread indicate that people have applied the DL Bulletin 6 COVID exceptions more than once for a given ticket, but if anyone knows if AF does have any policy on this, that'd be great to know, too.
Feb 23, 2021, 3:55 pm
#2375
Join Date: May 2014
Location: WRO
Posts: 19
Did anyone have some luck rebooking parked tickets recently? I tried iMessage today and was told that rebooking without fare difference applies only to domestic flights and as ours are international, they have to collect the difference.
Feb 24, 2021, 1:44 am
#2377
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
I haven't yet, but I would point to Bulletin 6 - pretty hard to maintain their viewpoint if they actually read it. Might be a better play to HUACA and get a more willing agent though.
Feb 24, 2021, 2:05 am
#2378
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 14
Has anyone been successful using Bulletin 6 a second time? DL refused to do so.
A DL-representative also told me that my ticket is non-refundable (it has been AF before DL took over) and therefore DL can only give me e-credits. Can anyone give me a hint if this is true?
A DL-representative also told me that my ticket is non-refundable (it has been AF before DL took over) and therefore DL can only give me e-credits. Can anyone give me a hint if this is true?
Feb 24, 2021, 2:35 am
#2379
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
And as far as I can tell, Bulletin 6 doesn't say anything about the refund terms changing - one would think that the original rules would remain. AF website was certainly prone to showing these as non-refundable though, so maybe the wrong thing got copied over to DL when it got transferred?
Feb 24, 2021, 1:56 pm
#2380
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: AA Exp
Posts: 836
KLM has done this before for me, also concerning ‘normal’ tickets. Some agents offer this without even asking, other agents indeed tell me that it is not possible.
Feb 24, 2021, 2:00 pm
#2381
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: AA Exp
Posts: 836
I should have been more specific: When I called I was planning on rebooking, but during the call I decided to cancel. EUR 700 for business class to New York just does not sound as good now as it did a year ago...
Feb 25, 2021, 3:36 am
#2382
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 102
So their seems to be a mismatch between the rules and their systems.
Feb 27, 2021, 12:55 am
#2383
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
Feb 27, 2021, 4:33 am
#2384
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: TK Elite Plus, BA Silver, AF Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Spire
Posts: 58
During the chat with DL agent I asked her very clearly if the ticket would still be refundable after changes made on basis of B6. She replied yes. I saved the conversation just in case.
Feb 27, 2021, 6:51 am
#2385
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,345
I'm trying to find KLM I fare availability AMS-JFK on ITA for any time post-August but am not having any luck. I can find availability in reverse and can even find D fare availability on BUD-AMS RT route. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Any help?
