Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Jan 25, 2021, 2:40 pm
#2327
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
2 further calls down the line and I'm unable to get anyone on AF who will do this change for me... Previously asked for an exorbitant fee. The guy today didn't even say anything just "sent my request to the tarification department"...
I suspect that this is because my itinerary has now switched around completely (was meant to travel BUD-JFK but the dates on the outbound have been pushed back by 10 days to the point that my itinerary is now JFK-BUD...)
Do you have any wording that can help or bulletins I can refer to? When calling Delta it was great to have that info around and produced results. For AF, mentioning INVOL change didn't help. One guy even said I could only do "within 2-3 days of travel date" not even the 30 day thing.
How many HUACAs does it take to get someone helpful
I suspect that this is because my itinerary has now switched around completely (was meant to travel BUD-JFK but the dates on the outbound have been pushed back by 10 days to the point that my itinerary is now JFK-BUD...)
Do you have any wording that can help or bulletins I can refer to? When calling Delta it was great to have that info around and produced results. For AF, mentioning INVOL change didn't help. One guy even said I could only do "within 2-3 days of travel date" not even the 30 day thing.
How many HUACAs does it take to get someone helpful
have you tried the messenger function?
Jan 25, 2021, 4:08 pm
#2328
Join Date: Nov 2016
Programs: Nectar Card
Posts: 1,092
Jayy-zusss, she sure sounds like it! Congrats on the new itinerary.
Btw, did you happen to call in during weekday business hours (when it is assumed the more-skilled or more-senior agents are manning the phones)? Or was it a totally different time?
Btw, did you happen to call in during weekday business hours (when it is assumed the more-skilled or more-senior agents are manning the phones)? Or was it a totally different time?
Jan 25, 2021, 8:44 pm
#2329
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
I called in on 1/1 in the early PM. She was Chinese, TX based. I would send her flowers and wine if I could.
Jan 26, 2021, 8:54 am
#2330
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: LAX,BUD
Programs: AA EXP,SPG G
Posts: 249
Looks like time to throw in the towel or me.
Ticket was changed twice last year and once again the 1st pushing it a month out. Talked to NL office,Czech office and the Hungarian one, they all refused to do and even exchange for summer and sent it to the back office for manual calculation (+EUR2000/ per ticket). The Hungarian guy was pretty straightforward saying that since it was an error fare (his words) no way they'll allow to push it and "KLM would rather refund the money rather than let people fly in business this cheap over the summer months". Guess will call Budapest tomorrow as he said they are the ones dealing with cash refunds. Pretty bummed as they are J/D tickets and was really hoping someone would make it work...
Ticket was changed twice last year and once again the 1st pushing it a month out. Talked to NL office,Czech office and the Hungarian one, they all refused to do and even exchange for summer and sent it to the back office for manual calculation (+EUR2000/ per ticket). The Hungarian guy was pretty straightforward saying that since it was an error fare (his words) no way they'll allow to push it and "KLM would rather refund the money rather than let people fly in business this cheap over the summer months". Guess will call Budapest tomorrow as he said they are the ones dealing with cash refunds. Pretty bummed as they are J/D tickets and was really hoping someone would make it work...
Jan 27, 2021, 2:42 am
#2331
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Somewhere between BHX and HUY
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Eurobonus Silver, ALL Gold
Posts: 1,674
Jan 27, 2021, 3:05 am
#2332
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Somewhere between BHX and HUY
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Eurobonus Silver, ALL Gold
Posts: 1,674
And here it drops:
I think it's time to give up... word must have gotten out according to other posters as well. Pretty scummy that they changed my BUD-JFK to a JFK-BUD and expect me to suck it up. Would anyone have anything further to suggest before I finally throw the towel?
At least I managed to get the delta ticket saved.
I think it's time to give up... word must have gotten out according to other posters as well. Pretty scummy that they changed my BUD-JFK to a JFK-BUD and expect me to suck it up. Would anyone have anything further to suggest before I finally throw the towel?
At least I managed to get the delta ticket saved.
Jan 27, 2021, 6:01 am
#2334
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Somewhere between BHX and HUY
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Eurobonus Silver, ALL Gold
Posts: 1,674
At least this is remotely entertaining...
I absolutely hate it when I do a massive rant about how I'm a disgruntled customer and their response is "Thank you for your message"
What I'm trying to do here is get them to at least give me 30 days, so I can try my luck with further cancellations until I'm vaccinated and allowed to travel again, in roughly 2022!
I absolutely hate it when I do a massive rant about how I'm a disgruntled customer and their response is "Thank you for your message"
What I'm trying to do here is get them to at least give me 30 days, so I can try my luck with further cancellations until I'm vaccinated and allowed to travel again, in roughly 2022!
Jan 27, 2021, 6:27 am
#2335
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Somewhere between BHX and HUY
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Eurobonus Silver, ALL Gold
Posts: 1,674
And they've now offered me a flight for the 29th-6th, which I cannot take of course, but I guess that's one thing at least...
I think it's time for me to throw the towel and concede.
I'm not based in the US so not comfortable with suing, + AF/KL is the most local airline to me and I don't want to be blacklisted - I also need to argue a status extension with them next month and I don't expect that to be fun either...
To be fair they've always been decent to me in the past, and I know very well this ticket was too good to be true.
Will keep an eye on this thread for the next couple of days just in case someone has some magic advice that will fix all my problems, then request the refund.
I think it's time for me to throw the towel and concede.
I'm not based in the US so not comfortable with suing, + AF/KL is the most local airline to me and I don't want to be blacklisted - I also need to argue a status extension with them next month and I don't expect that to be fun either...
To be fair they've always been decent to me in the past, and I know very well this ticket was too good to be true.
Will keep an eye on this thread for the next couple of days just in case someone has some magic advice that will fix all my problems, then request the refund.
Jan 27, 2021, 6:32 am
#2336
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
For those who managed to save on taxes by changing the tickets online this is the new addition to the DL Bulletin 6 INT:
Please note: Effective on January 1, 2021, the suspension to exempt collection of the U.S. Transportation Tax (US) and the Flight Segment Tax (ZP) issued as part of the CARES Act has expired. Any tickets issued between March 28, 2020 and December 31, 2020 that were exempt from the U.S. Transportation Tax (US) and the Flight Segment Tax (ZP) that need to be reissued will be subject to collection of these taxes, if the ticket qualifies. Travel agents will need to reprice the itinerary and collect the current US and ZP taxes, if applicable.
Jan 29, 2021, 2:34 pm
#2337
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 412
Well, ok I roll back my quesion. I made a phone call to DL. I was prepared for a battle but to my surprise it was super easy and fast. My tickets were on DL stock, first, for summer 2020, then after cancellation, changed to mid-February 2021, which is obviously not possible to fly for EU-based citizens. I managed to change again to late August 2021 in the original reservation class I. My piece of advice:
- be nice and be prepared: e.g. start with spellig your reservation with ICAO Phonetic Alphabet Table
- check the availability of class I for all your flights (and the number of seats), prepare the exact dates: this you can do only with a tool like expertflyer (5 day trial mode is enough), ITA is absolutely not reliable for this task
- call and if your flight was cancelled or significantly altered, you should succeed
- be nice and be prepared: e.g. start with spellig your reservation with ICAO Phonetic Alphabet Table
- check the availability of class I for all your flights (and the number of seats), prepare the exact dates: this you can do only with a tool like expertflyer (5 day trial mode is enough), ITA is absolutely not reliable for this task
- call and if your flight was cancelled or significantly altered, you should succeed
Last edited by man4business; Jan 29, 2021 at 5:01 pm Reason: after a phone call
Jan 30, 2021, 3:03 pm
#2338
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: SE+, OWS
Posts: 373
i changed my flights 5 days ago with intention of having a schedule change later... well, i already got 2 schedule changes today 
. small tip for you guys: always book the flights that are not operating at the current time, so you can rebook and change your flights for free in the future..
. small tip for you guys: always book the flights that are not operating at the current time, so you can rebook and change your flights for free in the future..
Jan 30, 2021, 4:39 pm
#2339
Join Date: Nov 2016
Programs: Nectar Card
Posts: 1,092
i changed my flights 5 days ago with intention of having a schedule change later... well, i already got 2 schedule changes today . small tip for you guys: always book the flights that are not operating at the current time, so you can rebook and change your flights for free in the future..
. small tip for you guys: always book the flights that are not operating at the current time, so you can rebook and change your flights for free in the future..Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the suggestion...?
Jan 31, 2021, 1:14 am
#2340
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
Well, ok I roll back my quesion. I made a phone call to DL. I was prepared for a battle but to my surprise it was super easy and fast. My tickets were on DL stock, first, for summer 2020, then after cancellation, changed to mid-February 2021, which is obviously not possible to fly for EU-based citizens. I managed to change again to late August 2021 in the original reservation class I. My piece of advice:
- be nice and be prepared: e.g. start with spellig your reservation with ICAO Phonetic Alphabet Table
- check the availability of class I for all your flights (and the number of seats), prepare the exact dates: this you can do only with a tool like expertflyer (5 day trial mode is enough), ITA is absolutely not reliable for this task
- call and if your flight was cancelled or significantly altered, you should succeed
- be nice and be prepared: e.g. start with spellig your reservation with ICAO Phonetic Alphabet Table
- check the availability of class I for all your flights (and the number of seats), prepare the exact dates: this you can do only with a tool like expertflyer (5 day trial mode is enough), ITA is absolutely not reliable for this task
- call and if your flight was cancelled or significantly altered, you should succeed
Great that you managed it though - did you search for married segments or just individual legs? Married segment to OGG and LIH look terrible late in the schedule, so it might be a huge advantage if the agents work off the individual segments (my other trip to BNA/LEX doesn’t look like it will be any trouble).
