Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Dec 21, 2020, 10:54 am
#2251
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 170
Quoting the link (https://www.aviateworld.com/media/30...-flowchart.pdf) to a KLM iMessage agent, the agent simply said - these rules are travel agency rules, for KLM bookings, the policy on KLM's website applies. KLM's policy, i.e. fare difference only waived for new departure dates within 30 days of original departure.... 
Last edited by hkgg; Dec 21, 2020 at 10:55 am Reason: added link
Dec 21, 2020, 10:58 am
#2252
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: TLV
Posts: 522
Quoting the link (https://www.aviateworld.com/media/30...-flowchart.pdf) to a KLM iMessage agent, the agent simply said - these rules are travel agency rules, for KLM bookings, the policy on KLM's website applies. KLM's policy, i.e. fare difference only waived for new departure dates within 30 days of original departure....
Dec 21, 2020, 11:10 am
#2253
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,456
In short, I was told (at different times in the chat) I couldn’t change because I never booked the itinerary that I had, bulletin 6 didn’t apply because there was already one change made that happened after 27 March, new fare rules now apply and lastly because I already made a voluntary change once.
I have a call back scheduled so maybe the info will be different with a phone call. For reference my first change was due to the departure date arriving and travel wasn’t possible. I’m trying to change again because it’s for 2 Jan.
I have a call back scheduled so maybe the info will be different with a phone call. For reference my first change was due to the departure date arriving and travel wasn’t possible. I’m trying to change again because it’s for 2 Jan.
Last edited by etiene; Dec 22, 2020 at 3:03 am Reason: Mobile keyboards make for bad English.
Dec 21, 2020, 6:48 pm
#2254
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 170
original departure as booked in March. I booked on KLM’s website in March 2020 for December 2020. Trying to change to October 2021. I class found, but agents on all the KLM channels I tried all insisted on a fare difference to be collected..
Dec 22, 2020, 1:13 am
#2255
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: BRU / SCQ / LUX
Programs: Iberia, BAEC GOLD/ Priority Club : ROYAL Amb / Miles and More: SEN
Posts: 913
I have trouble finding I class for october.and November on KLM.
Just read to try matrix so I will do that. Does some of you see some dates on Expertflyer with I class?
Just read to try matrix so I will do that. Does some of you see some dates on Expertflyer with I class?
Dec 22, 2020, 8:08 am
#2256
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: TLV
Posts: 522
I too was having trouble finding I class late next year and eventually figured I'd settle on August for now, where I did find. But that doesn't matter because AFKL are persistent in their refusal to change again. Last week I got this response when I asked to move 30 days out again to end of January:
And then this morning if I asked again to move to end of January or to August, pointing out the class-to-class information, but received this:
The voucher part is nonsense, of course, since the ticket is refundable. Since my trip is now booked to begin in a few days, I think I'm ready to give up on it and go for a refund. I do have a second ticket for mid January which I haven't modified at all yet, and it does have cancellations and schedule changes. So there's still hope for that one.
We have reviewed your reservation and we can't offer you the change you are requesting for free. The fare on this ticket is not available and a recalculation has to be done with a regular fare and we won't be able to offer you the same prices which you paid on this ticket anymore.
As your ticket was issued on the 14th March 2020, it cannot reissued for any date after the 14th MAR 2021. The alternative is to request a voucher with the credit paid for the tickets so you can make a new booking within 12months of the issuance of the vouchers to any destination with Air France, KLM or Delta.
Dec 22, 2020, 4:22 pm
#2258
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: AA Exp
Posts: 836
Edit: I rebooked my flight, but was also offered to park the booking instead
Dec 23, 2020, 2:09 am
#2259
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 102
When I asked Delta to 'park' my ticket I also got the answer that only an e-credit was available and that when I wanted to rebook a fare difference would apply. I didn't push the issue since I already have enough other credit/changed flights that I need to use.
Instead I opted for a refund, which also proved interesting. According to the agent's system the ticket was non-refundable. She checked the fare rules, after I asked her to, and concluded that the ticket was indeed refundable. So no big issue in my case, but it might be relevant for people that run into the same issue.
I do have to give Delta compliments for the fast refund. I applied for the refund last Sunday and the my credit card was credited on Monday!
Instead I opted for a refund, which also proved interesting. According to the agent's system the ticket was non-refundable. She checked the fare rules, after I asked her to, and concluded that the ticket was indeed refundable. So no big issue in my case, but it might be relevant for people that run into the same issue.
I do have to give Delta compliments for the fast refund. I applied for the refund last Sunday and the my credit card was credited on Monday!
Dec 23, 2020, 2:33 am
#2260
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,456
When I asked Delta to 'park' my ticket I also got the answer that only an e-credit was available and that when I wanted to rebook a fare difference would apply. I didn't push the issue since I already have enough other credit/changed flights that I need to use.
Instead I opted for a refund, which also proved interesting. According to the agent's system the ticket was non-refundable. She checked the fare rules, after I asked her to, and concluded that the ticket was indeed refundable. So no big issue in my case, but it might be relevant for people that run into the same issue.
I do have to give Delta compliments for the fast refund. I applied for the refund last Sunday and the my credit card was credited on Monday!
Instead I opted for a refund, which also proved interesting. According to the agent's system the ticket was non-refundable. She checked the fare rules, after I asked her to, and concluded that the ticket was indeed refundable. So no big issue in my case, but it might be relevant for people that run into the same issue.
I do have to give Delta compliments for the fast refund. I applied for the refund last Sunday and the my credit card was credited on Monday!
I haven't reactivated mine yet, and I'm not sure if anyone has done so to a "parked" ticket - so there is little to guide us other than the Bulletin itself. There does seem to be a fair bit of YMMV for those who have rebooked without parking - so HUCA remains good advice. Werty7777's experience is a bit worrisome - as if they try to claim that ticketing date is whatever date the ticket was last reissued then I doubt anyone is holding a ticket from before April 17th given the number of timetable changes that have occured this year. I don't think we'll know until people try to reactive these tickets, and even then the inconsistent response may well be the only constant.
Dec 23, 2020, 2:45 am
#2261
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 775
To reiterate since the last mention will be a few pages back by now: from what I could glean while questioning on iMessage the process is to issue an eCredit at the "parking" stage. The unusual step derived from Bulletin 6 is done at the rebooking stage, whereby if you meet the various conditions [which should just be finding I class for the same itinerary on these fares] the agent can waive the fare difference and input the waiver code.
I haven't reactivated mine yet, and I'm not sure if anyone has done so to a "parked" ticket - so there is little to guide us other than the Bulletin itself. There does seem to be a fair bit of YMMV for those who have rebooked without parking - so HUCA remains good advice. Werty7777's experience is a bit worrisome - as if they try to claim that ticketing date is whatever date the ticket was last reissued then I doubt anyone is holding a ticket from before April 17th given the number of timetable changes that have occured this year. I don't think we'll know until people try to reactive these tickets, and even then the inconsistent response may well be the only constant.
I haven't reactivated mine yet, and I'm not sure if anyone has done so to a "parked" ticket - so there is little to guide us other than the Bulletin itself. There does seem to be a fair bit of YMMV for those who have rebooked without parking - so HUCA remains good advice. Werty7777's experience is a bit worrisome - as if they try to claim that ticketing date is whatever date the ticket was last reissued then I doubt anyone is holding a ticket from before April 17th given the number of timetable changes that have occured this year. I don't think we'll know until people try to reactive these tickets, and even then the inconsistent response may well be the only constant.
However, at time of rebooking, a new ticket will be issued with a classic 1 year validity and a issue date after April 17th. In this case, I think it would be more difficult to rebook under bulletin 6 but rather bulletin 10 (which not waive fare difference).
I have an itinerary right now (October moved to february to Montreal —> already many cancellation and unflyable “paid” with e-credit). The e-ticket expiration is 21st October 2021 (1y from reissue) and I guess it would be a hard fight to get it moved to 2022 without paying a huge fare difference.
Time will tell !
Dec 23, 2020, 3:14 am
#2262
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,456
Most of the Delta issued ticket had a validity until December 31st 2022 (it was visible on the website and discussed here a few pages back). So I do not think it will be something they would use.
However, at time of rebooking, a new ticket will be issued with a classic 1 year validity and a issue date after April 17th. In this case, I think it would be more difficult to rebook under bulletin 6 but rather bulletin 10 (which not waive fare difference).
I have an itinerary right now (October moved to february to Montreal —> already many cancellation and unflyable “paid” with e-credit). The e-ticket expiration is 21st October 2021 (1y from reissue) and I guess it would be a hard fight to get it moved to 2022 without paying a huge fare difference.
Time will tell !
However, at time of rebooking, a new ticket will be issued with a classic 1 year validity and a issue date after April 17th. In this case, I think it would be more difficult to rebook under bulletin 6 but rather bulletin 10 (which not waive fare difference).
I have an itinerary right now (October moved to february to Montreal —> already many cancellation and unflyable “paid” with e-credit). The e-ticket expiration is 21st October 2021 (1y from reissue) and I guess it would be a hard fight to get it moved to 2022 without paying a huge fare difference.
Time will tell !
- One booked for October, voluntarily changed [under the fare rules] before April 17th and reticketed due to cancellations and chasing D1 Suites [which I think ought to be involutary changes].
- One for December, voluntarily changed [under the fare rules] after April 17th [but same dates - added the inter-island leg] and various reticketings for cancellations [which were mostly just changed flight numbers in reality].
- One for December not voluntarily changed, but various reticketings due to cancellations [again several of which were just changed flight numbers].
In your case I think that you probably have waived the chance to rebook with Bulletin 6 by rebooking in October [under what I presume to have been EU261] - so as you say the new ticket doesn't meet the date limits for Bulletin 6. EU261 would seem to be more flexible [basically cabin-to-cabin if you argue it right and get a cooperative agent] if you're happy to rebook to flights open for booking at the time and had a cancellation. EU261 doesn't speak to pushing things past the booking window - presumably because noone anticipated a scenario in which we'd be unsure whether we actually travel at any time in the next 11 months...!
Dec 23, 2020, 3:16 am
#2263
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 102
To reiterate since the last mention will be a few pages back by now: from what I could glean while questioning on iMessage the process is to issue an eCredit at the "parking" stage. The unusual step derived from Bulletin 6 is done at the rebooking stage, whereby if you meet the various conditions [which should just be finding I class for the same itinerary on these fares] the agent can waive the fare difference and input the waiver code.
I haven't reactivated mine yet, and I'm not sure if anyone has done so to a "parked" ticket - so there is little to guide us other than the Bulletin itself. There does seem to be a fair bit of YMMV for those who have rebooked without parking - so HUCA remains good advice. Werty7777's experience is a bit worrisome - as if they try to claim that ticketing date is whatever date the ticket was last reissued then I doubt anyone is holding a ticket from before April 17th given the number of timetable changes that have occured this year. I don't think we'll know until people try to reactive these tickets, and even then the inconsistent response may well be the only constant.
I haven't reactivated mine yet, and I'm not sure if anyone has done so to a "parked" ticket - so there is little to guide us other than the Bulletin itself. There does seem to be a fair bit of YMMV for those who have rebooked without parking - so HUCA remains good advice. Werty7777's experience is a bit worrisome - as if they try to claim that ticketing date is whatever date the ticket was last reissued then I doubt anyone is holding a ticket from before April 17th given the number of timetable changes that have occured this year. I don't think we'll know until people try to reactive these tickets, and even then the inconsistent response may well be the only constant.
Dec 23, 2020, 3:25 am
#2264
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,456
Dec 23, 2020, 3:54 am
#2265
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 161
In short, I was told (at different times in the chat) I couldn’t change because I never booked the itinerary that I had, bulletin 6 didn’t apply because there was already one change made that happened after 27 March, new fare rules now apply and lastly because I already made a voluntary change once.
I have a call back scheduled so maybe the info will be different with a phone call. For reference my first change was due to the departure date arriving and travel wasn’t possible. I’m trying to change again because it’s for 2 Jan.
I have a call back scheduled so maybe the info will be different with a phone call. For reference my first change was due to the departure date arriving and travel wasn’t possible. I’m trying to change again because it’s for 2 Jan.
Supervisor came on asking same question of why I wanted to cancel. Told me that bulletin 6 didn’t apply because I already made the one change allowed by it. I again mentioned that the fare was seemingly unflyable based on border rules. She searched the rules and agreed but wouldn’t use bulletin 6 still because of the previous change. I advised that I had multiple cancellations and changes to the fare since it was booked including changes a few days prior. I acknowledged that they were minor of a few minutes of flight number changes but I’m sure the first change (I made) was caused by multiple changes/cancellations of flights. Went back on hold for a while as she researched.
Finally, she advised she was able to rebook this change as my one change based on bulletin 6 and moved the exact same itinerary flights until September 21 where I gave the availability.
In the end, though every agent isn’t on par with the next, Delta continues to impress me with their customer service skills on all my cancelled flights and ones I’m booking now with multiple ECredits attached to a fare or miles. At the end the agent said boy, “that’s one heck of a fare. The girls and I were laughing about it back here because we love to see customers getting a great fare.” I said thanks and that’s why I was trying so hard to retain it. If for some reason we still can fly in September, I’ll cancel as I feel I have worked the fare to the limits and happy with the outcome. Hope this helps!