Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Oct 17, 2020, 10:00 am
#2041
Used to be guidogh
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: FB Ultimate, Hertz Platinum, Star Aliiance Gold
Posts: 364
The rules dont actually mention historic fares,, they are even more clear:
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED
There is no debate about this. This means same price used when you bought the ticket. I will fly the first segment soon also, and I will not accept a change in price other then maybe 50 euros max or so, which is possible..
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT WHEN TKT WAS ISSUED
There is no debate about this. This means same price used when you bought the ticket. I will fly the first segment soon also, and I will not accept a change in price other then maybe 50 euros max or so, which is possible..
I am looking to hear from anyone, and lets build a strong case to help eachother push all our dates forward to times where we can actually fly it again.
Oct 17, 2020, 11:24 am
#2042
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YYC
Posts: 2,073
Allright, I have flown the first Segment BUD-AMS, and contacted KLM to change the datges of the other fligths. As expected they cam up with a 2500$ fare difference or so. I have pointed out that according to the fare rules the shoudl use the prices in effect at the time of booking. So they say that is what they did. So its is clear thqat they have manually amended the Historical price, which is clearly cheating. So in order to proof this, I actually am looking for somebody who has bought this fare with departure in febrary of june to one of the following destinations: SEA/SLC/LAX.SAN/SFO/LAS/PHX. because with that I can proof that the actual booked price at the time of booking was different than what they are asking now. If somebody has this, please reach out to me on PM or so. We can discuss hwo we proceed. PLease note that if this will be succesful, this will create a great precedent for everyone who has flown the first segment, because we can then proof than the historic fare has been changed after issueing the ticket, which is offcourse pure pure pure fraud.
I am looking to hear from anyone, and lets build a strong case to help eachother push all our dates forward to times where we can actually fly it again.
I am looking to hear from anyone, and lets build a strong case to help eachother push all our dates forward to times where we can actually fly it again.
Oct 17, 2020, 11:29 am
#2043
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,468
Allright, I have flown the first Segment BUD-AMS, and contacted KLM to change the datges of the other fligths. As expected they cam up with a 2500$ fare difference or so. I have pointed out that according to the fare rules the shoudl use the prices in effect at the time of booking. So they say that is what they did. So its is clear thqat they have manually amended the Historical price, which is clearly cheating. So in order to proof this, I actually am looking for somebody who has bought this fare with departure in febrary of june to one of the following destinations: SEA/SLC/LAX.SAN/SFO/LAS/PHX. because with that I can proof that the actual booked price at the time of booking was different than what they are asking now. If somebody has this, please reach out to me on PM or so. We can discuss hwo we proceed. PLease note that if this will be succesful, this will create a great precedent for everyone who has flown the first segment, because we can then proof than the historic fare has been changed after issueing the ticket, which is offcourse pure pure pure fraud.
I am looking to hear from anyone, and lets build a strong case to help eachother push all our dates forward to times where we can actually fly it again.
I am looking to hear from anyone, and lets build a strong case to help eachother push all our dates forward to times where we can actually fly it again.
Oct 18, 2020, 12:01 am
#2044
Used to be guidogh
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: FB Ultimate, Hertz Platinum, Star Aliiance Gold
Posts: 364
They re-priced the original fare in their own system. which is clearly fraudulent.
Oct 18, 2020, 12:09 am
#2045
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,468
Evidence would be nice, but if you avoid changing destination (so same fare precisely) you only need logic to prove their claim bogus.
Oct 18, 2020, 12:19 am
#2046
Used to be guidogh
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: FB Ultimate, Hertz Platinum, Star Aliiance Gold
Posts: 364
I understood that. But you paid the original fare (whatever it was) - if you keep the routing the same the only add/collect would be fx changes and changes to tax elements which clearly wouldn’t amount to thousands (even if the HUF has taken a hit).
Evidence would be nice, but if you avoid changing destination (so same fare precisely) you only need logic to prove their claim bogus.
Evidence would be nice, but if you avoid changing destination (so same fare precisely) you only need logic to prove their claim bogus.
Oct 18, 2020, 1:08 am
#2047
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,468
Unfortunatly this "logic"goes above the paygrade of any KL-Agent, at least in The Netherlands. Because they can only apply the fares they get in their system, which is obviously the new higher fare. So this has to be done via a complaint or request to Customer care. But if Expertflyer can easily reproduce that fare, so can KLM back-office.
Oct 18, 2020, 12:39 pm
#2049
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
Unfortunatly this "logic"goes above the paygrade of any KL-Agent, at least in The Netherlands. Because they can only apply the fares they get in their system, which is obviously the new higher fare. So this has to be done via a complaint or request to Customer care. But if Expertflyer can easily reproduce that fare, so can KLM back-office.
Customer care is what helped me long time ago in a similar situation - but they only were able to change dates, changing routing in this situation probably way out of luck.
Said all that negative sh*t - All don't give up and please report your success here in this thread!
Last edited by Keter; Oct 18, 2020 at 1:38 pm Reason: some mistakes fixed
Oct 18, 2020, 1:22 pm
#2050
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
331 days only.
For anyone that needs to rebook a 006 ticket, the detailed waiver rules are here: https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...etin-5---.html
It doesn't look like many DL agents are actually familiar with the the "Class to Class" rebooking rules, especially for new travel dates beyond 3/31/2021. If you are quoted a huge fare difference and that you keep the original O&D and booking class (J and I), please ask the agent to check these waivers in details.
For anyone that needs to rebook a 006 ticket, the detailed waiver rules are here: https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...etin-5---.html
It doesn't look like many DL agents are actually familiar with the the "Class to Class" rebooking rules, especially for new travel dates beyond 3/31/2021. If you are quoted a huge fare difference and that you keep the original O&D and booking class (J and I), please ask the agent to check these waivers in details.
The step by step policy exception finder is here
The policy (updated September 29) is here
Change of origin/ destination is under CURRENT fares.
What the policy is silent about is rerouting and adding stopover - that's what i wanted to do later due to the limitations of online booking engines... Let's see how it works.
Added: and yes, no flight cancellation is required.
Oct 18, 2020, 1:41 pm
#2051
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
OT: OMG its so different from BA Covid policy - even for cancelled flights no change fee/ no fare difference/ same origin destination rebooking is ONLY within the validity of the original ticket (mine expires mid JAN-2021...). Love 006
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Oct 18, 2020, 2:06 pm
#2052
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
The DL 'park' option only works for cancelled flights, right? I don't see any references to this option in a policy that applies to itineraries without cancelled flights (as posted above). Rather the option is there, but it asssumes the new travel will be repriced using current fares as I read that.
Oct 18, 2020, 2:09 pm
#2053
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,468
The DL 'park' option only works for cancelled flights, right? I don't see any references to this option in a policy that applies to itineraries without cancelled flights (as posted above). Rather the option is there, but it asssumes the new travel will be repriced using current fares as I read that.
Oct 18, 2020, 4:07 pm
#2054
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: AMS, JFK/EWR/LGA
Programs: Flying Blue/Platinum, TK/Elite Plus, QR/Platinum, LH/FTL, Marriott/Platinum
Posts: 293
Whenever I mention this "park it" option, the agents would tell me "sure, I'm happy to convert your ticket to an eVoucher of the same value", when told I simply want to "park it" and rebook later, all of the agents (several over chat and several over the phone, incl. 2 supervisors, one from the ticket desk) that I've spoken to firmly told me there's no such thing as "parking it" - either rebook before original date of departure and for new dates within 331 days, or eVoucher.
Oct 18, 2020, 11:20 pm
#2055
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,468
Whenever I mention this "park it" option, the agents would tell me "sure, I'm happy to convert your ticket to an eVoucher of the same value", when told I simply want to "park it" and rebook later, all of the agents (several over chat and several over the phone, incl. 2 supervisors, one from the ticket desk) that I've spoken to firmly told me there's no such thing as "parking it" - either rebook before original date of departure and for new dates within 331 days, or eVoucher.
Again, you can point out that for the December 2022 date to make any sense (it was extended to that too, so isn’t a mistake) then there must be some version of “parking” available. The novelty of that is definitely a pitfall though - we won’t know much until someone chooses to try the other half of the process.