Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Aug 24, 2020, 6:02 am
#1741
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 53
etiene, thanks for the comprehensive summary. Much clearer now. I think my course of action will be monitoring how things are looking for Hawaii around November and then making a decision. Worst case, I will fly the first leg (granted that Orban lets me in) and then change the rest of the itin to a later date. One more question about that: would I be bound by the ticket validity of 1 year, meaning travel would need to be completed by sometime in March (a year after we all bought this) or could it be up to EOS?
I think that won't be easy to do when we already started to fly the first segment. Especially to calculate the difference for flown segments.
I guess for these people they will extend any rules which say that we have to fly within 12 months.
However that's only speculation
Aug 24, 2020, 6:03 am
#1742
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,471
etiene, thanks for the comprehensive summary. Much clearer now. I think my course of action will be monitoring how things are looking for Hawaii around November and then making a decision. Worst case, I will fly the first leg (granted that Orban lets me in) and then change the rest of the itin to a later date. One more question about that: would I be bound by the ticket validity of 1 year, meaning travel would need to be completed by sometime in March (a year after we all bought this) or could it be up to EOS?
Aug 24, 2020, 8:58 am
#1743
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: DUS
Posts: 318
Just a data point, if anything: schedule changes over the weekend butchered my inbound KOA-SEA-MSP-AMS by adding one more stop in DTW and an impossible connection. Was excited to have been booked on the A359 on DTW-AMS at first but the itin looked really dreadful. Taking that opportunity, I was able to change this into KOA-SEA-AMS with the second leg conveniently having been swapped to A330-900neos last weekend as well. No charges, of course, and took around 45 mins beginning to end via the chat on their website. Jackpot for me, if only we can fly it in January.
Aug 24, 2020, 6:30 pm
#1744
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 114
I have this flight upcoming in Sep. but Hungary does not seem to be letting US citizens in. What are the options for this fare? Ideally I would like to push this ticket out by a year (Sep/21) and keep the same fare. I called Delta and spoke to them and the guy said I would need to pay any fare difference, but I don't trust him. He was too much of a smooth talker. Thanks for your help if your respond to this.
Meanwhile I will read the other posts in this thread. I have not kept up.
Edit: I see the link to the virus policy (https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...ulletin-4.html) TY
Meanwhile I will read the other posts in this thread. I have not kept up.
Edit: I see the link to the virus policy (https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...ulletin-4.html) TY
Last edited by sarpotd; Aug 24, 2020 at 6:48 pm
Aug 25, 2020, 12:32 pm
#1749
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
For my (DL stock) BUD-AMS, AMS-SEA-LIH, KOA-SEA-MSP-AMS, AMS-BUD booking for January, I am also facing uncertainty in regards to being able to fly this, or rather: near-certainty that I can't, considering the way things are looking with travel to and from the US and particularly policies for Hawaii....
Aug 25, 2020, 2:20 pm
#1750
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: DL DM/MM
Posts: 2,272
I'm a little worried that this might cause the ticketing dept or revenue management to start flagging these tickets. I'm wondering if HUACA is usually the best course of action in these types of situations.
Aug 25, 2020, 3:27 pm
#1751
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
BTW - anyone know what happens if an airline changes flights enumeration approach - what if a trip is no longer priceable (under old rules)? Manual reissue only?
Booking Class
>$LB1HISTORY
001 BUDHNL 16JAN21 DL USD 39.00 I2FFHU STAY---/-- BK-I
FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES
-------- ---------------------- ----------
I2FFHU BUSINESS UNRESTRICTED FARES I
I2FFHU BETWEEN EUROPE AND AREA 1 APPLIES FOR ROUND TRIP FARES
BOOKING CODE EXCEPTIONS
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES WITHIN
USA FLTS 6311-6336
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES WITHIN USA FLTS
6311-6336
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES BETWEEN
USA-CANADA FLTS 6311-6336
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES BETWEEN USA-CANADA
FLTS 6311-6336
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES WITHIN
CANADA FLTS 6311-6336
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES WITHIN CANADA FLTS
6311-6336
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES WITHIN
USA FLTS 7000-7224
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES WITHIN USA FLTS
7000-7224
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES BETWEEN
USA-CANADA FLTS 7000-7224
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES BETWEEN USA-CANADA
FLTS 7000-7224
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES WITHIN
CANADA FLTS 7000-7224
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES WITHIN CANADA FLTS
7000-7224
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES WITHIN
USA FLTS 7377-7429
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES WITHIN USA FLTS
7377-7429
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES BETWEEN
USA-CANADA FLTS 7377-7429
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES BETWEEN USA-CANADA
FLTS 7377-7429
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES WITHIN
CANADA FLTS 7377-7429
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES WITHIN CANADA FLTS
7377-7429
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES WITHIN
USA FLTS 7558-7597
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES WITHIN USA FLTS
7558-7597
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES BETWEEN
USA-CANADA FLTS 7558-7597
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES BETWEEN USA-CANADA
FLTS 7558-7597
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES WITHIN
CANADA FLTS 7558-7597
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES WITHIN CANADA FLTS
7558-7597
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES WITHIN
USA FLTS 7632-7661
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES WITHIN USA FLTS
7632-7661
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES BETWEEN
USA-CANADA FLTS 7632-7661
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES BETWEEN USA-CANADA
FLTS 7632-7661
VIA DL I REQUIRED WHEN AVAILABLE I- FARES WITHIN
CANADA FLTS 7632-7661
VIA DL Y REQUIRED I- FARES WITHIN CANADA FLTS
7632-7661
VIA DL I PERMITTED I- FARES
VIA DL F PERMITTED I- FARES WITHIN USA
VIA DL F PERMITTED I- FARES BETWEEN USA-CANADA
VIA DL F PERMITTED I- FARES WITHIN CANADA
VIA DL P/W PERMITTED I- FARES WITHIN AREA 1
VIA DL Y PERMITTED I- FARES WITHIN AREA 1
VIA DL I REQUIRED I- FARES
Aug 25, 2020, 3:35 pm
#1752
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: KL PFL; BA Gold; A3 Silver; EY Silver; SU Silver
Posts: 2,488
Has anyone been able to fly the first segment and was able to do any changes with historical pricing?
e.g. the starting airport from the inbound flight? (I want to change the inbound flight from HNL to OGG (arriving in HNL))
I tried this a couple of days before and was asked to pay the difference of 2800Euro.
However I'll be flying the first segment on friday and will check it than anyway.
Unfortunately all those changes must me done via messenger or Phone as I never had the possibility to do any changes on my itinerary on the KLM website.
Even when all flights where on time and no cancellations.
e.g. the starting airport from the inbound flight? (I want to change the inbound flight from HNL to OGG (arriving in HNL))
I tried this a couple of days before and was asked to pay the difference of 2800Euro.
However I'll be flying the first segment on friday and will check it than anyway.
Unfortunately all those changes must me done via messenger or Phone as I never had the possibility to do any changes on my itinerary on the KLM website.
Even when all flights where on time and no cancellations.
- Change return portion (or 2nd and further fare components) - historical set of fares applies
- Change outbound - reprice as of now
- Change other than outbound - historical set of fares applies if there is no change to fare construction points
The above is for DL plated tickets only.
Source: DL international general rules tariff (rule 22)
1. Unused tickets
a. When making changes to the outbound portion of an unused ticket, Delta will cancel the itinerary and start over, issuing a new ticket using current fares subject to all applicable fare rules. If the unused fare is nonrefundable, the value of the original ticket, less the change fee, may be applied toward the purchase of the new ticket. If the unused fare is refundable, the value of the original ticket may be applied toward the purchase of a new ticket.
b. When making changes to the continuing/return portion of unused tickets, Delta will apply one of the following procedures resulting in the lowest fare:
i. Attempt to keep the fares as ticketed, using historical fares in effect on the date of the original ticket issue date and maintaining the original fares and origin/destination for all fare components. Delta will validate all fare rules at the time of reissue.
-OR-
ii. Reprice the itinerary using historical fares in effect on the date of the original
ticket issue date, validating all fare rules and booking code provisions at the
time of reissue with no changes to the first fare component.
-OR-
iii. Cancel the itinerary and start over, issuing a new ticket using current fares with
all fare rules validated. If the unused fare is nonrefundable, the value of the
original ticket less the change fee may be applied toward the purchase of a
new ticket. For refundable fares, the value of the original ticket may be applied
toward the purchase of a new ticket.
a. When making changes to the outbound portion of an unused ticket, Delta will cancel the itinerary and start over, issuing a new ticket using current fares subject to all applicable fare rules. If the unused fare is nonrefundable, the value of the original ticket, less the change fee, may be applied toward the purchase of the new ticket. If the unused fare is refundable, the value of the original ticket may be applied toward the purchase of a new ticket.
b. When making changes to the continuing/return portion of unused tickets, Delta will apply one of the following procedures resulting in the lowest fare:
i. Attempt to keep the fares as ticketed, using historical fares in effect on the date of the original ticket issue date and maintaining the original fares and origin/destination for all fare components. Delta will validate all fare rules at the time of reissue.
-OR-
ii. Reprice the itinerary using historical fares in effect on the date of the original
ticket issue date, validating all fare rules and booking code provisions at the
time of reissue with no changes to the first fare component.
-OR-
iii. Cancel the itinerary and start over, issuing a new ticket using current fares with
all fare rules validated. If the unused fare is nonrefundable, the value of the
original ticket less the change fee may be applied toward the purchase of a
new ticket. For refundable fares, the value of the original ticket may be applied
toward the purchase of a new ticket.
Aug 25, 2020, 7:36 pm
#1754
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 114
I would appreciate some feedback here. From the bulletin that Etienne included earlier
https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...ulletin-4.html
It is clear that I can change the ticket to sometime next year (ideally I would like to change it to Sep(Bud/US) and Dec(US/Bud) as it is for the current year but the schedule is not open yet) without paying the fae difference. However, the agent says that I have to pay the fare difference even if I change it to Jun/Jul 2021. The best I can do is get eCredit and use it towards a new ticket. Is this correct?
Applicable Booking Class
Rebook permitted as indicated below:
I have already escalated to the supervisor once and I did not get the crisp and clear message that gave me the confidence I was getting the right advice. The supervisor was not even aware of this bulletin 4. She was looking @ this page:
https://www.delta.com/us/en/travel-u...irementsChange to a different flight:
Any advice? Also is there a way to escalate it to corporate to have someone competent take a look and see why there is a difference in advice. Maybe I am confusing things up?
https://pro.delta.com/content/agency...ulletin-4.html
It is clear that I can change the ticket to sometime next year (ideally I would like to change it to Sep(Bud/US) and Dec(US/Bud) as it is for the current year but the schedule is not open yet) without paying the fae difference. However, the agent says that I have to pay the fare difference even if I change it to Jun/Jul 2021. The best I can do is get eCredit and use it towards a new ticket. Is this correct?
Applicable Booking Class
Rebook permitted as indicated below:
- If new travel originates February 25, 2020 through September 30, 2020, book in same class if available. If same class is not available, ok to rebook in the next class available up to and including Y class for main cabin fares, or the highest available class for premium fares/cabins, P class for Premium Economy fares, F class for First Class fares and J class for Delta OneŽ fares (cabin to cabin), if necessary.
- Fare differences and change fee will be waived provided the ticket is reissued on/before September 30, 2020. In addition, PNR must be documented with OSI (where required by GDS) and the applicable waiver code used and documented on ticket.
- Fare differences and change fee will be waived provided the ticket is reissued on/before September 30, 2020. In addition, PNR must be documented with OSI (where required by GDS) and the applicable waiver code used and documented on ticket.
- If new travel originates October 1, 2020 through September 30, 2022, rebook permitted in same class of service as originally ticketed. (class to class).
- Fare differences and change fee will be waived provided all travel is complete and ticket is reissued on/before September 30, 2022. In addition, PNR must be documented with OSI (where required by GDS) and the applicable waiver code used and documented on ticket.
- If same class is not available, rebook in new class of service. Any difference in fare between original ticket and the new ticket must be collected. Change fee will be waived provided all travel is complete and ticket is reissued on/before September 30, 2022. In addition, PNR must be documented with OSI (where required by GDS) and the applicable waiver code used and documented on ticket.
- Fare differences and change fee will be waived provided all travel is complete and ticket is reissued on/before September 30, 2022. In addition, PNR must be documented with OSI (where required by GDS) and the applicable waiver code used and documented on ticket.
I have already escalated to the supervisor once and I did not get the crisp and clear message that gave me the confidence I was getting the right advice. The supervisor was not even aware of this bulletin 4. She was looking @ this page:
https://www.delta.com/us/en/travel-u...irementsChange to a different flight:
- If you select this option, you may make a one-time change and we will waive any applicable change fee or Award redeposit fee.*
- To change your flight, visit My Trips on delta.com, select the flight you wish to change and then click on "Modify Flight."
- Choose "Start Flight Change" and select which flight you would like to change to search for a new flight.
- Note that the change fee or Award redeposit fee will be waived; however, if there is a difference in price, a difference in fare may apply.*
Any advice? Also is there a way to escalate it to corporate to have someone competent take a look and see why there is a difference in advice. Maybe I am confusing things up?
Last edited by sarpotd; Aug 25, 2020 at 7:48 pm
Aug 26, 2020, 12:41 am
#1755
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ
Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D
Posts: 1,976
Does DL agents know how to "park" my ticket after canceling the flights? I talked to a DL rep about "park" option, instead of a straight cancelation, and his answer is I will receive e-credits for future booking if I cancel my flights now.