Dec 31, 2018, 9:41 pm
Last edit by: alexj7
CAUTION - TURNAROUND
"One customer did have issues. Wang Guanran, who documents his travels on hktravelblog.com, had his plans to travel to New York on Wednesday cut short when he was prevented from flying by immigration officials in Vietnam... he was detained by Vietnamese immigration officials, who said it was illegal to return to his city of origin while in transit." - Source:SCMP, 2 January 2019
Also https://rapidtravelchai.boardingarea...-direct-turns/
Visa Information: check out the Vietnam visa/VOA thread in the Asia forum. You can get either a visa on arrival where you get the stamp on arrival) or a "looseleaf" visa in advance from a VN Consulate in the US (which allows you to go straight to the immigration queue). There are sometimes lines for the VOA stamp and so the loosleaf approach can save you some time.
Seat Assignments
per NWPlatinum below - Cathay blocks out all seats except for 2D for some reason. I never understood the reasoning behind this but in any event just contact them for a seat assignment and they’ll let you have your choice. They like to block out seats for people with bassinets and babies. But you can usually get 2A, which is the best see if you’re solo traveler. Just say I want seat 2A and I’ll move if requested at the airport (never was asked to move)
Basic Visa Options for US Citizens
1. One month, one entry
2. One month, multiple entries
3. Three months, one entry
4. Three months, multiple entries
5. One year, multiple entries
Everyone needs an e-visa approval before boarding if they will enter the country. (e.g. clear customs). Connecting flights - even on separate tickets - do not require a visa IF IF IF the connecting airline has a counter in the transit area. (The airline may have their own rules.) Going back to the same country is not allowed without clearing customs first.
Expect the visa check at your point of departure. (Computer will flag your ticket.) The actual stamp is received on arrival (in most cases). (There is also the possibility of a visa insert with no need to go to 'visa on arrival'.)
Official Site: Embassy of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam in the United States
Lounge Access (Access Requirements)
JFK - AA Flagship First (F Departure)
ORD - British Airways Club / First Lounge T5 (J / F departures). AA Flagship lounge T3 (logistics in this post)
BOS
SFO - CX Lounge Terminal A (F or J Departure)
YVR - CX Lounge Gate 67
HKG
HAN - Song Hong Lounge (KA) or ACV/NIA Business Lounge (KA)
DAD
Current status:
- Deal is no longer active (can't book this anymore)
Mainstream media coverage:
- Cathay Pacific says it will honour first and business-class tickets sold in error in move that could cost it millions [SCMP, 2 January 2019]
- Cathay Pacific error sees $16,000 flights sold for $675 [The Guardian, 2 January 2019]
- Bloomberg article by Kyunghee Park
- South China Morning Post article by Danny Lee
- Follow up article from Danny Lee SCMP with individual anecdotes and analyst comments.
- Oriental Daily Hong Kong & Macao news article discussing the fare via lens of airline "mismanagement" (Chinese)
Post your trip dates and itinerary here:
Please use (+1) to denote you are in F and can guest someone (or more than 1 person) into the F lounges in HKG.
January:
1/9: KA 294 HAN-HKG - tonykline1947 (+1)
1/10: CX 888 HKG-YVR - tonykline1947 (+1)
1/18: KA 296 HAN-HKG - SOWK
1/19: CX 888 HKG-YVR - SOWK
1/21: KA 227 DAD-HKG - Governator
1/21: KA 227 DAD-HKG - usairchairman (+1)
1/21: CX 840 HKG-JFK - usairchairman (+1)
1/21: CX 846 HKG-JFK - Governator
1/22: CX 845 JFK-HKG - Governator
1/23: KA 220 HKG-DAD - Governator (won't fly this one)
1/23: CX5227 DAD-HKG rbAA
1/23: CX840 HKG-JFK rbAA (can guest at Wing FC or Pier FC as I have 5hrs+)
1/26: CX 227 DAD-HKG - Synd(+1)
1/26: CX 846 HKG-JFK - Synd(+1)
1/29 KA 227 DAD-HKG - miffSC
1/29 CX 846 HKG-JFK - miffSC
1/30: CX 831 JFK-HKG - Synd (+1)
1/30: CX 865 JFK - YVR - HKG - ss2k(+1) can guest someone at JFK Flagship dining (i think)
February:
2/1: CX 220 - HKG - DAD - Synd (+1) - will try not to fly this one
2/1: CX 220 - HKG - DAD - ss2k (+1) - will probably stay in DAD for couple of days if anyone wants to join
2/2: CX865 JFK-YVR-HKG rbAA (can guest at JFK AA FL FC)
2/3 - KA 227 - DAD-HKG - swgsword, Pochama
2/3 - CX 840 - HKG-JFK - Pochama
2/4 - CX 888 - HKG-YVR-JFK - swgsword (+1, also FL at JFK)
2/4: CX5220 HKG-DAD rbAA (tight connection :50 so no lounge time unless I misconnect)
2/10: CX 764 SGN-HKG - zebes
2/11: CX 806 HKG-ORD - zebes
2/15: CX 831 JFK-HKG - usairchairman (+1)
2/15: CX 812 HKG-BOS - AnttiV
2/16: KA 220 HKG-DAD - usairchairman (+1)
2/18 CX 872 HKG-SFO - princesakura (+1)
2/19: KA 296 HAN-HKG - IncaTrails
2/19: CX 812 HKG-BOS - IncaTrails
2/22: CX 811 BOS-HKG - AnttiV
March:
3/01: CX 807 ORD-HKG - zebes
3/01 CX ### HAN-HKG - billbligh (+3)
3/02 CX888 HKG-YVR (0100) billybligh(+3)
3/03: CX 767 HKG-SGN - zebes
3/03: CX 764 SGN-HKG - zebes
3/04: CX 806 HKG-ORD - zebes
3/05: CX1790 HAN-HKG - dordal
3/06: CX872 HKG-SFO - dordal
3/08: CX 873 SFO-HKG - princesakura
3/11: KA 223 DAD-HKG - SiempreBCNJFK
3/12: CX 888 HKG-YVR-JFK - SiempreBCNJFK
3/12: CX 865 YVR-HKG - SOWK
3/13: CX 1791 HKG-HAN - SOWK
3/14: CX 5227 DAD-HKG - Hudute
3/14: CX 840 HKG-JFK - Hudute
3/15: CX 5527 DAD-HKG - Frebay (+1)
3/15: CX 840 HKG-JFK - Frebay (+1)
3/15: CX 845 JFK-HKG - SiempreBCNJFK
3/16: KA 228 HKG-DAD - SiempreBCNJFK
3/17: KA 227 DAD-HKG - SiempreBCNJFK
3/17: CX 890 HKG-EWR - SiempreBCNJFK
3/18: CX 872 HKG-SFO - princesakura (+1)
3/20: CX ### HKG-JFK - tcormier (+2)
3/20: CX 888 HKG-(YVR)-JFK - captainstubing (+1)
3/22: CX 831 JFK-HKG - captainstubing
3/22: CX 840 HKG-JFK - jongesander (+1)
3/25: CX 899 EWR-HKG - SiempreBCNJFK
3/26: KA 226 HKG-DAD - SiempreBCNJFK
3/26: CX 845 JFK-HKG - swgsword
3/27: KA 220 HKG-DAD - swgsword (+1)
3/27: KA ### HAN-HKG - Mauibaby2008
3/27: CX ### HKG-JFK - Mauibaby2008
3/28: CX 766 SGN-HKG - SiempreBCNJFK
3/28: CX 846 HKG-JFK - SiempreBCNJFK
3/29: CX 5296 HAN-HKG - LHG
3/29: CX 872 HKG-SFO - LHG
3/29: CX 807 ORD-HKG - zebes
3/31: CX 767 HKG-SGN - zebes
April:
4/3 CX 845 JFK-HKG - miffSC
4/4 KA 220 HKG-DAD - miffSC
4/6 KA 294 HAN-HKG - frisbfreek
4/7 CX 830 HKG-JFK - frisbfreek (+1)
4/13: KA 294 HAN-HKG - bostonbali (+1)
4/13: KA 294 HAN-HKG - swgsword
4/14: CX 888 HKG-YVR-JFK bostonbali (+1)
4/14: CX 888 HKG-YVR-JFK swgsword (+1)
4/19: KA 298 HAN-HKG shek3112
4/19: CX 846 HKG-JFK shek3112 (+3)
4/19: CX 806 HKG-ORD Oshkosh105 (+1)
4/20: CX 807 ORD-HKG Oshkosh105
4/29: CX 845 JFK-HKG shek3112 (+3)
4/30: KA 299 HKG-HAN shek3112 (may change)
4/30: KA 221 DAD-HKG - driveswith (+1)
May:
5/1: CX 888 HKG-YVR - driveswith (+1)
5/1: CX 888 YVR-JFK - driveswith (+1)
5/8: CX 845 JFK-HKG - driveswith (+1)
5/8: KA 221 DAD-HKG - zip10001
5/8: CX 840 HKG-JFK - zip10001
5/10: CX 873 SFO-HKG - dordal
5/11: CX5297 HKG-HAN - dordal
5/11: KA 296 HAN-HKG - james_yuen (+1)
5/12: CX 888 HKG-YVR - james_yuen (+1)
5/12: CX 5294 HAN-HKG - dordal
5/13: CX 872 HKG-SFO - dordal
5/13: BA 28 HKG-LHR - driveswith (+1)
5/15 CX865 YVR-HKG - james_yuen (+1)
5/16 KA 299 HKG-HAN - james_yuen (+1)
5/19: CX 845 JFK-HKG - Frebay (+1)
5/20: CX 5224 HKG-DAD - Frebay (+1)
5/21: KA 296 HAN-HKG - AndrewT84
5/22: CX 872 HKG-SFO - AndrewT84
5/24: CX 811 BOS-HKG - IncaTrails
5/25: KA 297 HKG-HAN - IncaTrails
5/28: CX 764 SGN-HKG - JetSetDave
5/28: CX 858 HKG-SEA - JetSetDave
5/30: CX 841 JFK-HKG - zip10001
5/31: KA 224 HKG-DAD - zip10001
5/31: CX 5294 (KA) HAN-HKG maverikbc (+1)
June:
6/1: CX 888 HKG-YVR maverikbc (+1)
6/2: KA 221 DAD-HKG - sgan317 (+2)
6/2: CX 840 HKG-JFK - sgan317 (+2)
6/2: KA 221 DAD-HKG - greendx
6/2: CX 840 HKG-JFK - greendx
6/3: CX 888 HKG-JFK - JALOO5-Flyer
6/8: KA 296 HAN-HKG - Mrow (+1)
6/8: CX 846 HKG-JFK - Mrow (+1)
6/8: CX 766 SGN-HKG - Quanh79 (+3)
6/8: CX 846 HKG-JFK - Quanh79 (+3)
6/8: KA 296 HAN-HKG - UAPremierGuy
6/8: CX 840 HKG-JFK - UAPremierGuy
6/8: KA 221 DAD-HKG - Evianon
6/8: CX 840 HKG-JFK - Evianon (+1)
6/9: KA 294 DAD-HKG - Frebay (+1)
6/10: CX 872 HKG-SFO - Frebay (+1)
6/10: CX 845 JFK-HKG - UAPremierGuy
6/11: CX 845 JFK-HKG - Evianon
6/12: KA 220: HKG-DAD - Evianon
6/12: CX 841 JFK-HKG - Mrow (+1)
6/12: CX 845 JFK-HKG - Hudute
6/13: KA 299 HKG-HAN - Mrow (+1)
6/13: CX 5220 HKG-DAD - Hudute
6/17: KA 225 DAD-HKG - CruisingAlitiude47
6/18: CX 830 HKG-JFK - CruisingAlitiude47
6/22: KA 294 HAN-HKG - FormallyKnownAs (+1)
6/22: CX 830 HKG-YVR - FormallyKnownAs (+1)
6/22: CX 888 HKG-JFK - FormallyKnownAs (+1)
6/22: KA 221 DAD-HKG ZohyeahZ (+2)
6/22: CX 840 HKG-JFK ZohyeahZ (+2)
6/28: CX 865 JFK-HKG - greendx
6/30: KA 220 HKG-DAD - greendx
July:
7/3: CX 857 SEA-HKG - JetSetDave
7/4: CX 767 HKG-SGN - JetSetDave
7/4: KA 294 HAN-HKG - Majuki
7/4 CX 872 SFO-HKG - princesakura
7/5: CX 872 HKG-SFO - Majuki
7/5: KA 227 DAD-HKG - afirm (+1)
7/6: CX 888 HKG-YVR-JFK- afirm (+1)
7/7: CX 841 JFK-HKG - afirm (+1)
7/8: KA 224 HKG-DAD - afirm (+1)
7/8: KA 296 HAN-HKG - terryversay (+1)
7/8: CX 840 HKG-JFK - terryversay (+1)
7/8: CX 872 - HKG-SFO - princesakura
7/9: CX 841 JFK-HKG - JALOO5-Flyer
7/11: CX 873 SFO-HKG - AndrewT84
7/12: KA 297 HKG-HAN - AndrewT84
7/12: CX 845 JFK-HKG - CruisingAltitude47
7/13: KA 220 HKG-DAD - CruisingAltitude47
7/14: KA 221 DAD-HKG - nutty92 (+2)
7/14: CX 840 HKG-JFK - nutty92 (+2)
7/14: CX 1764 SGN-HKG - chitink (+2)
7/15: CX 806 HKG-ORD - chitink (+2)
7/17: CX 840 HKG-JFK - danfl44 (+1)
7/20: CX 865 JFK-HKG zOhYeahz (+2)
7/22: KA 224 HKG-DAD zOhYeahz (+2)
7/25: CX 841 JFK-HKG - danfl44 (+1)
7/27: CX ### JFK-HKG - tcormier (+2)
7/30: KA 221 DAD-HKG - driveswith (+1)
7/31: CX 888 HKG-YVR - driveswith (+1)
7/31: CX 888 YVR-JFK - driveswith (+1)
August:
8/5: KA 225 DAD-HKG - sriegert
8/6: CX 888 HKG-JFK - sriegert
8/6 KA 221 DAD-HKG - aradisc (+1)
8/7 CX 888 HKG-YVR-JFK - aradisc (+1)
8/7: KA 221/840 DAD-HKG-JFK Brituchenite
8/9: CX 845 JFK-HKG - Quanh79 (+1)
8/9: CX767 HKG-SGN - Quanh79 (+1)
8/10 CX 840 HKG-JFK - thefilipinotraveler (+1)
8/11 CX 841 JFK-HKG - driveswith (+1)
8/11 KA 294 DAD-HKG - pochi
8/12 KA 225 DAD-HKG - Dancrane (+1)
8/12 CX 888 HKG-JFK - pochi (+1)
8/13 CX 830 HKG-JFK - Dancrane (+1)
8/17 CX 851 SFO-HKG - princesakura
8/17 CX 841 JFK-HKG - pochi (+1)
8/17 KA 297 HKG-HAN - thefilipinotraveler (+1)
8/18 CX 845 JFK-YVR-HKG - swgsword
8/19 KA 299 HKG-HAN - swgsword (+1)
8/19 CX 841 JFK-HKG - Dancrane (+1)
8/20 KA 224 HKG-DAD - Dancrane (+1)
8/23 CX 845 JFK-HKG - sriegert
8/23 CX812 HKG-BOS - paul4471 (+2)
8/24 - KA 220 HKG-DAD - sriegert
8/24 CX1790/VN592 HAN-HKG ritesa (+1)
8/25 CX888 HKG-YVR ritesa (+1)
8/26 CX 872 HKG-SFO - princesakura
8/27 CX865 YVR-HKG ritesa (+1)
8/30: CX835 JFK-HKG - terryversay (+1)
8/30: CX830 HKG-JFK - JALOO5-Flyer (+1)
8/31: KA297 HKG-HAN - terryversay (+1)
8/30 KA299 HKG-HAN ritesa (+1)
8/30: CX865CX5/220 JFK-YVR-HKG-DAD Brituchenite
8/30: KA/CX ### HAN-HKG-JFK-DCA - GlobalNelson
September:
9/1: CX 766 SGN-HKG - quinzinho (+1)
9/1: AA 192 / CX 7686 HKG-LAX - quinzinho (+1)
9/1: AA 303 LAX-IAD - quinzinho (+1)
9/1: CX 873 SFO-HKG - Majuki
9/1: CX 1791 HKG-HAN - paul4471 (+2)
9/2: KA 297 HKG-HAN - Majuki
9/6: AA 1139 IAD-LAX - quinzinho (+1)
9/7: AA 193 / CX 7685 LAX-HKG - quinzinho (+1)
9/8: CX 767 HKG-SGN - quinzinho (+1)
9/7: KA 221 DAD-HKG - ChiefNWA
9/7: CX 840 HKG-JFK - ChiefNWA
9/9: VN592-CX840 HAN-HKG-JFK - Zebranz
9/14: KA296-CX810 HAN-HKG pschafer+1 in J
9/14: CX 851 SFO-HKG - princesakura
9/26: CX 764 SGN-HKG - Phrantic
9/27: CX 806 HKG-ORD - Phrantic
9/28: CX 845 JFK-HKG - Pochama
9/29: KA 220 HKG-DAD - Pochama
9/30: CX ### JFK-HKG - Mauibaby2008
October:
10/01: KA ### HKG-HAN - Mauibaby2008
10/05: CX855-KA299 YVR-HKG-HAN - pschafer+1 in J
10/08 CX5221 - CX890 DAD-HKG-EWR MCI777
10/10 CX841 - CX5224 JFK-HKG-DAD MCI777
10/10: CX865-KA297 JFK-HKG-HAN - Zebranz
10/11: CX 865 JFK-HKG - ChiefNWA
10/12: KA 220 HKG-DAD - ChiefNWA
10/12: CX 873 SFO-HKG - dordal
10/13: CX5299 HKG-HAN
10/15: VN594-CX840 SGN-HKG-JFK - Zebranz
10/16-17: KA221J/CX888A DAD-HKG-YVR-JFK - Shareholder
10/19 CX865 YVR-HKG maverikbc (+1)
10/20 CX1791 (VN) HKG-HAN maverikbc (+1)
10/25: CX/KA ### DCA-JFK-HKG-HAN - GlobalNelson
10/30: CX 831 JFK-HKG - SiempreBCNJFK
10/31: CX 721 HKG-SGN - SiempreBCNJFK
November:
11/1: CX 831 JFK-HKG - sgan317 (+2)
11/1: KA/CX ### HAN-HKG-YVR - GlobalNelson
11/2: KA 220 HKG-DAD - sgan317 (+2)
11/4-6: CX865A/KA220J (CX5220J) JFK-HKG-DAD - Shareholder
11/7: CX 807 ORD-HKG - chitink (+1)
11/7: CX841-CX799 JFK-HKG-SGN - Zebranz (changed due to CX Cxl CX845)
11/8: CX 721 HKG-SGN - chitink (+1)
11/8: CX 845 JFK-HKG - nutty92 (+2)
11/9: KA 228 HKG-DAD - nutty92 (+2)
11/11: KA296-CX872 HAN-HKG-SFO - Zebranz
11/12: CX 1764 SGN-HKG - chitink (+1)
11/13: CX 806 HKG-ORD - chitink (+1)
11/17: KA 227 DAD-HKG - Paul5795 (+1)
11/18: CX 872 HKG-SFO - Paul5795 (+1)
11/26: CX 807 ORD-HKG - chitink (+1)
11/26: CX873-KA295 SFO-HKG-HAN - Zebranz (might abandon KA295)
11/27: CX 721 HKG-SGN - chitink (+1)
11/29: KA296 HAN-HKG - JAeX
11/30: CX872 HKG-SFO - JAeX
11/30: KA 227 DAD-HKG-Tennislover9
11/30: CX 846 HKG-JFK-Tennislover9
11/30: CX726 SGN-HKG- stephem (+4)
11/30: CX858 HKG-SEA- stephem (+4)
December:
12/02: HKG-SFO CX872- uclabruin82
12/14: KA 294 HAN-HKG - calcjr23 (+1)
12/15: CX 830 HKG-JFK - calcjr23 (+1)
12/15: CX873 SFO-HKG - Paul5795
12/17: KA226 HKG-DAD - Paul5795
12/18: CX 807 ORD-HKG - Phrantic
12/19: CX 865 YVR-HKG - FormallyKnownAs (+1)
12/19: CX 841 JFK-HKG - FormallyKnownAs (+1)
12/19: CX 865 JFK-YVR - calcjr23 (+1)
12/20: CX 865 YVR-HKG - calcjr23 (+1)
12/20: KA 295 HKG-HAN - FormallyKnownAs (+1) may abandon
12/20: CX 767 HKG-SGN - Phrantic
12/20: CX 845 JFK-HKG-Tennislover9
12/20: CX857 SEA-HKG- stephem (+4)
12/21: CX799 HKG-SGN- stephem (+4)
12/21: KA 228 HKG-DAD-Tennislover9 (may abandon)
12/21: KA 297 HKG-HAN - calcjr23 (+1)
12/21: CX873 SFO-HKG - JAeX
12/23: KA297 HKG-HAN - JAeX
12/24: CX 873 SFO-HKG - Frebay (+1)
12/24: KA 295 HKG-HAN - Frebay (+1)
12/24: CX 873 SFO-HKG - UCLABruin82
FARES (YMMV) listed alphabetically - F booked into J/A; J booked into I,D,C.
- DAD-IAD: ~$1,483 (F)
- DAD-JFK: ~$675 (J) ~$845 (F)
- DAD-SFO: ~$931 (J)
- HAN-BOS: ~$1,120 (J) ~$1,200 (F)
- HAN-IAD: ~$1,000 (J) ~$1,400 (F)
- HAN-JFK: ~$1,324 (J) ~$1,444 (F)
- HAN-SFO: ~$1,240 (F)
- HAN-YVR: ~$768 (J) ~$988 (F)
- SGN-JFK: ~$1,849 (F)
- SGN-ORD: ~$1,115 (F)
- SGN-SEA: ~$1,109 (J)
[Premium Fare Gone]: CX: Vietnam to North America from $674 (J) and $1100 (F)
Jan 1, 2019, 11:41 pm
#511
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,777
Another issue: I don't agree that everybody knew with 100% confidence that it's an error fare. Perhaps CX had some intention to lure US customers to flying them more often, given increasing competition in both the high and low end segments? Perhaps this deal was akin to Chase Sapphire's mega sign-in bonus--the intention was not to sell this particular credit product, but to use it as a door-opener to new high-end customers. In fact, my mind was more inclined to think that the second rationale was more likely. They desperately need new, affluent customers.
Jan 1, 2019, 11:45 pm
#512
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: CGK
Posts: 2,375
stopover, not connection, as in there being a more significant amount of time in between flights than would a connection entail. This would usually be >24 hours
Jan 1, 2019, 11:56 pm
#513
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
Programs: TINDER GOLD, STARBUCKS GOLD, COSTCO EXECUTIVE!!
Posts: 3,989
What are the chances you think that Cathay would honor the J bookings but not the F bookings?
I have duplicates and have an hour left for free cancellation on all the bookings, and can't seem to decide whether to take the chances of that risk or eat the $250 cancel fee in the event Cathay honors both.
I have duplicates and have an hour left for free cancellation on all the bookings, and can't seem to decide whether to take the chances of that risk or eat the $250 cancel fee in the event Cathay honors both.
Jan 2, 2019, 12:02 am
#515
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Little dot in Asia
Programs: AA-EP, TK-*G, HL-DM, HY-GLO, MR-LTP
Posts: 25,932
Initially, Hong Kong Airlines was going to decline the mistake fares until they were exposed to the DOT rules as tickets started in USA and there are rules for tickets sold ex-USA. It is for that reason that they honoured 5,000 sold tickets in Business Class.
On the other hand, for the CX case, the tickets are ex-Vietnam so the same rules are not applicable and I have a feeling that CX will not honour some of these tickets. I think the best thing would be to downgrade the passengers to either:
a) Premium Economy with a surcharge
b) downgrade to Economy Class or
c) cancel the booking with no penalty.
Let's see what the outcome is but don't hold your breathe.
On the other hand, for the CX case, the tickets are ex-Vietnam so the same rules are not applicable and I have a feeling that CX will not honour some of these tickets. I think the best thing would be to downgrade the passengers to either:
a) Premium Economy with a surcharge
b) downgrade to Economy Class or
c) cancel the booking with no penalty.
Let's see what the outcome is but don't hold your breathe.
Jan 2, 2019, 12:07 am
#516
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
Programs: TINDER GOLD, STARBUCKS GOLD, COSTCO EXECUTIVE!!
Posts: 3,989
This would make sense for them financially, but it doesn't make overall sense to do. This fare was not limited to a point of sale - you could ticket this anywhere. I also highly doubt Vietnamese regulation being anything other than consumer-friendly.
Jan 2, 2019, 12:12 am
#517
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,402
Jan 2, 2019, 12:15 am
#518
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Clinging to the edifices of a decadent past from the biggest city in America nobody really cares about.
Programs: (ಠ_ಠ)
Posts: 9,077
Well said, and I think I am of the same mind.
As I said in my prior post, if CX issued a mea culpa and offered up some options, I'd be willing to listen (and honestly, would anyone reasonable person not be willing to listen?).
Speaking solely for myself, I do enjoy traveling and would very much like to fly the trips I've booked. However, if CX is facing a genuine hardship from their firesale I certainly don't begrudge them trying to do something to ameliorate their hardship.
1. Apology + Full Refund
2. Offer seating in PE
3. No refund but crediting flights as if they had been flown
I am not a lawyer but CX MUST deal with the following regulatory agencies:
1. Civil Aviation Administration of Vietnam
2. Civial Aviation Department of Hong Kong
3. Canadian Transportation Agency
4. US DOT (note: the current shutdown of the US Government may impact the reachability of the website) - for those customers going to the US.
5. (there may be others)
This is in addition to the small claims courts in the US and abroad of people who purchased tickets. The SCC is an interesting play as there may be 100's of different SCC venues - each with its own particular nuances - and if action is brought against CX, CX will need to defend, or pay someone to defend them. (For example in TX you cannot use the SCC to sue for specific performance - e.g. forcing CX to honor the ticket - but you can sue for replacement cost - e.g. it cost me $x,xxx to buy a replacement ticket and CX needs to reimburse me for that.)
They key here is if CX did move to unilaterally cancel tickets and [ x% ] of now-canceled-ticket-holders filed in their respective SCCs seeking damages, CX could be facing material costs from their legal team. Even if CX prevailed in all the SCCs, they'd still have to retain counsels (plural) to represent them across the various jurisdictions where action is brought. If only a handful of folks actually follow through then CX may be looking at a legal bill of a few thousand dollars plus whatever they get dinged for in the SCC itself or settle with out of court. But if 300 SCC suits were brought against multiple jurisdictions, CX could easily be facing a six-figure legal bill plus whatever they have to pay out per the SCC rulings.
This is not to say one should be licking their chops with glee at going to the SCC, but rather that when CX management reviews the situation the more credible the legal exposure they perceive as having to small-time-SCC courts will weigh in favor of working with customers to finding a mutually beneficial resolution.
I'd go a step farther and say the only way CX will honor the tickets is that the risk of NOT honoring them outweighs the cost of honoring them.
As I said in my prior post, if CX issued a mea culpa and offered up some options, I'd be willing to listen (and honestly, would anyone reasonable person not be willing to listen?).
Speaking solely for myself, I do enjoy traveling and would very much like to fly the trips I've booked. However, if CX is facing a genuine hardship from their firesale I certainly don't begrudge them trying to do something to ameliorate their hardship.
1. Apology + Full Refund
2. Offer seating in PE
3. No refund but crediting flights as if they had been flown
I am not a lawyer but CX MUST deal with the following regulatory agencies:
1. Civil Aviation Administration of Vietnam
2. Civial Aviation Department of Hong Kong
3. Canadian Transportation Agency
4. US DOT (note: the current shutdown of the US Government may impact the reachability of the website) - for those customers going to the US.
5. (there may be others)
This is in addition to the small claims courts in the US and abroad of people who purchased tickets. The SCC is an interesting play as there may be 100's of different SCC venues - each with its own particular nuances - and if action is brought against CX, CX will need to defend, or pay someone to defend them. (For example in TX you cannot use the SCC to sue for specific performance - e.g. forcing CX to honor the ticket - but you can sue for replacement cost - e.g. it cost me $x,xxx to buy a replacement ticket and CX needs to reimburse me for that.)
They key here is if CX did move to unilaterally cancel tickets and [ x% ] of now-canceled-ticket-holders filed in their respective SCCs seeking damages, CX could be facing material costs from their legal team. Even if CX prevailed in all the SCCs, they'd still have to retain counsels (plural) to represent them across the various jurisdictions where action is brought. If only a handful of folks actually follow through then CX may be looking at a legal bill of a few thousand dollars plus whatever they get dinged for in the SCC itself or settle with out of court. But if 300 SCC suits were brought against multiple jurisdictions, CX could easily be facing a six-figure legal bill plus whatever they have to pay out per the SCC rulings.
This is not to say one should be licking their chops with glee at going to the SCC, but rather that when CX management reviews the situation the more credible the legal exposure they perceive as having to small-time-SCC courts will weigh in favor of working with customers to finding a mutually beneficial resolution.
Originally Posted by Guy Betsy
The only way that CX will honor the tickets is probably only if the passengers are Vietnam citizens / residents and purchased through their own website in Vietnam.
Jan 2, 2019, 12:23 am
#519
Join Date: Nov 2013
Programs: AS Gold, Hyatt Diamond, Starriott LTPP
Posts: 341
Lots of internal, external, financial, government, consumer, etc. stakeholders at play. It's unlikely we'll ever hear the full story on the deliberations since part of the discussion will be how it's presented externally.
Get out the popcorn! 🍿
Jan 2, 2019, 12:24 am
#520
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 478
There are two possible outcomes, and almost zero change of these tickets being flown as booked:
1. most likely outcome - all tickets are eventually canceled and refunded, although it's possible a few very close-in departures might slip through
2. another probable outcome - the Swissair solution - you check-in, and a very nasty, arrogant agent and/or supervisor hands you a boarding pass in coach with a sneer
1. most likely outcome - all tickets are eventually canceled and refunded, although it's possible a few very close-in departures might slip through
2. another probable outcome - the Swissair solution - you check-in, and a very nasty, arrogant agent and/or supervisor hands you a boarding pass in coach with a sneer
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29726969-post125.html
We'll see, what the outcome with CX gonna looks like.
Jan 2, 2019, 12:28 am
#521
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 786
Would members here on FlyerTalk really consider legal action on CX if they cancel the tickets and refund?
If this is the case I think is disgusting that some people would purse it, really how would you feel if you sold say your car but stuffed up the price or contract selling it for 20 x less that what it was worth and the buyer took you to court. I would be grateful if they honor the fare but if canceled would be understanding of the mistake. There is no blurred line in the price between the usual tickets for F.
If this is the case I think is disgusting that some people would purse it, really how would you feel if you sold say your car but stuffed up the price or contract selling it for 20 x less that what it was worth and the buyer took you to court. I would be grateful if they honor the fare but if canceled would be understanding of the mistake. There is no blurred line in the price between the usual tickets for F.
Jan 2, 2019, 12:40 am
#522
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YYC
Posts: 2,072
The really hilarious part is that some of these folks are carefully crafting their posts in hopes that the airline's legal department will read them and decide that they are legally bound to honor all of the error fare tickets. Happens every time.
Jan 2, 2019, 12:43 am
#523
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,777
Jan 2, 2019, 12:44 am
#524
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
Would members here on FlyerTalk really consider legal action on CX if they cancel the tickets and refund?
If this is the case I think is disgusting that some people would purse it, really how would you feel if you sold say your car but stuffed up the price or contract selling it for 20 x less that what it was worth and the buyer took you to court. I would be grateful if they honor the fare but if canceled would be understanding of the mistake. There is no blurred line in the price between the usual tickets for F.
If this is the case I think is disgusting that some people would purse it, really how would you feel if you sold say your car but stuffed up the price or contract selling it for 20 x less that what it was worth and the buyer took you to court. I would be grateful if they honor the fare but if canceled would be understanding of the mistake. There is no blurred line in the price between the usual tickets for F.
Has there ever been a case of someone in the US prevailing in court (SCC or otherwise) against an airline for failing to honor a mistake fare? I guess, sometimes (usually?) settlements are sealed, but is there a link to an actual decision anywhere? (For that matter, is there a decision where someone sued and lost?)
Jan 2, 2019, 12:53 am
#525
Join Date: Nov 2013
Programs: AS Gold, Hyatt Diamond, Starriott LTPP
Posts: 341
Would members here on FlyerTalk really consider legal action on CX if they cancel the tickets and refund?
If this is the case I think is disgusting that some people would purse it, really how would you feel if you sold say your car but stuffed up the price or contract selling it for 20 x less that what it was worth and the buyer took you to court. I would be grateful if they honor the fare but if canceled would be understanding of the mistake. There is no blurred line in the price between the usual tickets for F.
If this is the case I think is disgusting that some people would purse it, really how would you feel if you sold say your car but stuffed up the price or contract selling it for 20 x less that what it was worth and the buyer took you to court. I would be grateful if they honor the fare but if canceled would be understanding of the mistake. There is no blurred line in the price between the usual tickets for F.
To take your analogy of selling your car for 5% the price of what you intended, you would simply never make that mistake because you are manually selling one vehicle. However, if you choose to raise the stakes and sell millions of cars en masse to a global consumer base, you're benefiting from the volume, but you also take on the business risk of some of those transactions not turning out exactly the way they would have in a fully manual situation. Do you want to complete each car sale transaction automatically or manually review each one before confirmed? Does the cost of manual review make your labor costs uncompetitive? Is the risk of automating worthwhile? You would decide what safeguards to build in, and at what costs. These are all just business decisions.
Anyway, my personal opinion doesn't necessarily include all of the above, but there are valid arguments in both directions here.