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-   -   [PREM FARE GONE] AF Business Class LAX - LHR $1515 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-discussion/1883560-prem-fare-gone-af-business-class-lax-lhr-1515-a.html)

bodory Dec 24, 17 8:11 pm


Originally Posted by golfingboy (Post 29210330)


I believe the argument is the airlines have a much longer grace period, or lack thereof, than we do when it comes to erroneous bookings.

Still, they cancelled the tickets in a 24-hour window.

Honestly I would have been more than happy to fly with them (even in J in the 77W would have been nice for that price).

We lost.

Fair game.

End of the story.

btonkid12345 Dec 25, 17 7:16 pm


Originally Posted by bodory (Post 29212338)
Still, they cancelled the tickets in a 24-hour window.

Honestly I would have been more than happy to fly with them (even in J in the 77W would have been nice for that price).

We lost.

Fair game.

End of the story.

They didn't cancel everyone's tickets inside 24 hours. And they still have yet to notify some folks. And still no refund.

Completely unfair and one-sided game.

palmanfr Dec 26, 17 4:57 am

One week later, still no news from my money on my two reservations. While I received after 72 hours an automatic email indicating the refund on my amex (one email per passenger on the booking), I haven't received anything for my other booking. In both cases, no credit showed on my credit card statement. I guess I will call amex in a couple days of nothing moves...

Madone59 Dec 26, 17 6:55 am


Originally Posted by palmanfr (Post 29215562)
One week later, still no news from my money on my two reservations. While I received after 72 hours an automatic email indicating the refund on my amex (one email per passenger on the booking), I haven't received anything for my other booking. In both cases, no credit showed on my credit card statement. I guess I will call amex in a couple days of nothing moves...

My purchase was no longer pending on AMEX about two days after it was cxled - odd that yours is still around.

bodory Dec 26, 17 8:04 am


Originally Posted by btonkid12345 (Post 29214662)
Completely unfair and one-sided game.

Don't play it then ;)

Gabrca Dec 26, 17 10:31 am

I filed for EU261 for a flight later this week, so will see what they say. I know they'll be some discussion on this board if its the "right" thing to do, or if it even counts as a cancellation, but by reading all of Air Frances EU261 conditions, I believe it does, and I'm curious to see the general interpretation of EU261 when it comes to these fares within 2 weeks of departure.

See message to AF below

On December 19th I booked a First Class Ticket from XXX-XXX, which was confirmed with a ticket number XXXXXXXXXXXX issued for travel on December 30th.
The following day, December 20th, I was informed that the ticket was being cancelled by Air France as the fare filed for this flight was a mistake, despite a ticket number being issued.

So while the fare filed by Air France was in error (made by them), since a ticket was issued in full, and cancelled by Air France within two weeks of departure, all the conditions for EU 261, as listed on Air Frances website have been met for compensation.

Conditions -
Flight on Air France: YES
Confirmed Reservation: YES
Fare Available to the Public: YES this was a publicly available fare for approximately 12 hours and purchased on Air France website.
Traveling to/from EU: YES

Cancellation assistance required by EU 261 for flights cancelled within 2 weeks of departure:

1. Rerouting to your final destination under comparable transport conditions as soon as possible as indicated by the carrier, or at a later date at your convenience - NOT OFFERED

2. Reimbursement for the part, and/or parts, of your journey that were not made, and for the part, and/or parts, already made if you do not wish to continue with your initial travel plans and you wish to return to your first point of departure, as noted on your ticket - OFFERED VIA TELEPHONE

Cancellation compensation required by EU 261 for flights cancelled within 2 weeks of departure:

1.Non-EU flights of more than 3,500 km: *€600 - NOT Offered
-------

Thanks for your assistance in this matter. Due to the nature of the ticket, and the cancellation of my confirmed ticket within 2 weeks of departure this meets all conditions of EU261.

paranoiatx Dec 26, 17 12:21 pm


Originally Posted by Gabrca (Post 29216163)
I filed for EU261 for a flight later this week, so will see what they say. I know they'll be some discussion on this board if its the "right" thing to do, or if it even counts as a cancellation, but by reading all of Air Frances EU261 conditions, I believe it does, and I'm curious to see the general interpretation of EU261 when it comes to these fares within 2 weeks of departure.

See message to AF below

On December 19th I booked a First Class Ticket from XXX-XXX, which was confirmed with a ticket number XXXXXXXXXXXX issued for travel on December 30th.
The following day, December 20th, I was informed that the ticket was being cancelled by Air France as the fare filed for this flight was a mistake, despite a ticket number being issued.

So while the fare filed by Air France was in error (made by them), since a ticket was issued in full, and cancelled by Air France within two weeks of departure, all the conditions for EU 261, as listed on Air Frances website have been met for compensation.

Conditions -
Flight on Air France: YES
Confirmed Reservation: YES
Fare Available to the Public: YES this was a publicly available fare for approximately 12 hours and purchased on Air France website.
Traveling to/from EU: YES

Cancellation assistance required by EU 261 for flights cancelled within 2 weeks of departure:

1. Rerouting to your final destination under comparable transport conditions as soon as possible as indicated by the carrier, or at a later date at your convenience - NOT OFFERED

2. Reimbursement for the part, and/or parts, of your journey that were not made, and for the part, and/or parts, already made if you do not wish to continue with your initial travel plans and you wish to return to your first point of departure, as noted on your ticket - OFFERED VIA TELEPHONE

Cancellation compensation required by EU 261 for flights cancelled within 2 weeks of departure:

1.Non-EU flights of more than 3,500 km: *600 - NOT Offered
-------

Thanks for your assistance in this matter. Due to the nature of the ticket, and the cancellation of my confirmed ticket within 2 weeks of departure this meets all conditions of EU261.

Just to be clear, your flight was not cancelled. Your ticket was cancelled. Those are two different things.

irishguy28 Dec 26, 17 3:14 pm

Again, EC261/2004 requires an undisputed valid ticket.

It is of no use to you in contesting an "error fare" cancellation.

The airline will probably take heart that you have placed your bet on the wrong consumer protection legislation. If you were to fight this and quote the law at them, you would be better served by quoting precedent in breach-of-contract cases.

PaulInTheSky Dec 26, 17 8:38 pm

Very interesting to see DL/AF proactively canceled the tickets of the itineraries that definitely fell under DOT rules.

It appears that:

1. DL/AF is not afraid of DOT anymore.
2. DL/AF does not care about the customers.
3. In the future, DL will cancel any fares that smell 'fishy' or 'mistake' to them.

Bad day to be a customer.

invalyd Dec 27, 17 5:49 am


Originally Posted by PaulInTheSky (Post 29217725)
Very interesting to see DL/AF proactively canceled the tickets of the itineraries that definitely fell under DOT rules.

It appears that:

1. DL/AF is not afraid of DOT anymore.
2. DL/AF does not care about the customers.
3. In the future, DL will cancel any fares that smell 'fishy' or 'mistake' to them.

Bad day to be a customer.

Please explain how did this fall under DOT rules? It was clearly a mistake, anyone on this forum knows that.

DL literally just honored a NZ fare a few weeks ago and has an incredible track record with these types of situations when they don't involve tickets that cost $15,000 a piece.


Global321 Dec 27, 17 7:58 am


Originally Posted by invalyd (Post 29218588)


Please explain how did this fall under DOT rules? It was clearly a mistake, anyone on this forum knows that.

DL literally just honored a NZ fare a few weeks ago and has an incredible track record with these types of situations when they don't involve tickets that cost $15,000 a piece.


1. At least one person on this thread said this was an exclusive fare. Maybe it was b.s. Maybe not.
2. BA is running a fare in first now at $3k. And while this is 1/2 that, it is certainly not a $15k fare.
3. Right now, you can buy this LAX-LHR fare on AF First - without any sales - for ~$8k. Not $15k.
4. Emarites has been running First class fares all the way to the middle east for as low as $3k - $4k (from East/West Canada).
5. AF First class sale right now is $6k to DC, $7k to NYC and SFO. NOT $15k.
6. Earlier this year, AF was running a First Class Fare from the USA to Spain for ~$3k.

While you are correct this fare is below any fare we have seen, it is $3k - $8k fare several times a year. So $1515 would be the lowest ever, but given AF sales as low as ~$3k - and Emarites at $3k - the fare could possibly not be a mistake. Unlikely, but not out of the question. And certainly NOT a $15k fare.

invalyd Dec 27, 17 9:44 am


Originally Posted by Global321 (Post 29218812)
1. At least one person on this thread said this was an exclusive fare. Maybe it was b.s. Maybe not.
2. BA is running a fare in first now at $3k. And while this is 1/2 that, it is certainly not a $15k fare.
3. Right now, you can buy this LAX-LHR fare on AF First - without any sales - for ~$8k. Not $15k.
4. Emarites has been running First class fares all the way to the middle east for as low as $3k - $4k (from East/West Canada).
5. AF First class sale right now is $6k to DC, $7k to NYC and SFO. NOT $15k.
6. Earlier this year, AF was running a First Class Fare from the USA to Spain for ~$3k.

While you are correct this fare is below any fare we have seen, it is $3k - $8k fare several times a year. So $1515 would be the lowest ever, but given AF sales as low as ~$3k - and Emarites at $3k - the fare could possibly not be a mistake. Unlikely, but not out of the question. And certainly NOT a $15k fare.

Most of your points are comparing apples and oranges. BA F is a far cry from AF. The Emirates fares were not from the US West Coast.
The AF $3k sale to Spain earlier this year was from NYC and the $6k sales originate in France. All completely different markets.

Perhaps $15k is a stretch, but the most reasonable comparison you've provided is $8k which is still 500% more than this so-called sale.

I'm shocked so many people are having such a hard time coming to terms that they won't be flying this ticket.

We're clearly in Stage 7 of this fare right now...


7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.

invalyd Dec 27, 17 9:47 am

double post

Global321 Dec 27, 17 10:22 am


Originally Posted by invalyd (Post 29219109)
Most of your points are comparing apples and oranges. BA F is a far cry from AF. The Emirates fares were not from the US West Coast.
The AF $3k sale to Spain earlier this year was from NYC and the $6k sales originate in France. All completely different markets.

Perhaps $15k is a stretch, but the most reasonable comparison you've provided is $8k which is still 500% more than this so-called sale.

I'm shocked so many people are having such a hard time coming to terms that they won't be flying this ticket.

We're clearly in Stage 7 of this fare right now...

I don't think there is anyone "having such a hard time" but on the other end of the spectrum is anyone saying this is a $15k fare! It can be had for $8k just about anytime and $5k occasionally.

You are not counting the actual $3k AF First Class sale fare earlier this year?
Yes, the ~$3k Emirates First Class was not available from LAX. It was available from YVR - a two-hour flight away. And on the return you could just stop in LAX. And it was MUCH farther than the AF fare. (Lucky is doing LAX-DXB-MXP-DXB-LAX in Emarites First for $3,170. While debatable, it is as good to many people - and better to some people - and it is much farther.

So ~$3k is a fair comparison. Bottom line, I agree $1.5k was a crazy good deal - better than anything seen before. But the ~$3k First Class Emirates above was never seen before, until it was. And the ~$3k AF First Class was not seen before, until it was.

Maybe AF went on the offensive to grab share from Emirates. Maybe it was a flash sale of 50% off the Emirates deal. Maybe it was a mistake. Given the crazy good airfares these days, nothing can automatically be considered a 'mistake'. I also accept that any ticket the airlines want to cancel, they pretty much can. (i.e. Swiss canceling First Class mileage tickets paid with the correct miles.) Unless one pushed the airline to court - or some other means/DOT - and wins, the airlines will continue to do what they want. And there is no reason to get too upset about it. It is what it is.

4GSM Dec 27, 17 10:26 am


Originally Posted by invalyd (Post 29219109)
Perhaps $15k is a stretch, but the most reasonable comparison you've provided is $8k which is still 500% more than this so-called sale.

500% is nothing in the airline pricing game, look at AF LAX-LHR economy class in February:

Fare basis VLJX87E4 - $129.00 R/T
Fare basis YFFWUS - $5608.00 R/T (yes, that's 4300% of the V fare)

Should I now assume that any ticket booked in V is a "mistake" fare and could get canceled???


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