[PREM FARE GONE] AF Business Class LAX - LHR $1515
Dec 21, 2017, 11:53 am
#692
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
Just out of principle - a merchant shouldn't take cash that they know they aren't entitled to and do whatever they want to do with the cash and refund on their own terms. No different than a person with high solvency borrowing money in a bind and not proactively paying back within reasonable timeframe. Just rude when an individual does that.
It's more efficient and cheaper for the merchant to just simply decline the payment than having the cash come on the books then a ledger entry tracking the cash has to be formed in the system, which is why I am surprised DL took the cash then again they are moving on this very slowly.
Dec 21, 2017, 11:53 am
#693
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 79
Why in God's name should anyone's financial situation matter? No one should pay interest on a purchase they didn't receive because a refund took an inadequately long amount of time.
Dec 21, 2017, 11:54 am
#694
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YKZ
Programs: AC MM SE, Marriott Titanium - Lifetime Plat 2nd Class, National Executive, Avis PP
Posts: 681
Missed their call today but just received the standard email :
Dear Captain Canuck
I have tried to call you today regarding the reservation you made with Air France on 19 December.
Due to a system error, your tickets for travel on Air France in First Class has to be cancelled. Consistent with DOT policy and guidelines, you are entitled to a full refund. Please note that the credit may not appear in your statement for another 24 to 48 hours.
In addition, you may request a refund of any reasonable, actual, and verifiable out-of-pocket expenses that were made in reliance upon the ticket purchase, upon presentation of receipts.
Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this misunderstanding may have caused.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Care Europe
My flight was actually purchased here in Canada, not the US, so "DOT policy and guidelines" do not apply to my reservation, but rather the Canadian equivalent.
I will assume that it would be roughly the same scenario for those of us North of the border ?
CC
Dear Captain Canuck
I have tried to call you today regarding the reservation you made with Air France on 19 December.
Due to a system error, your tickets for travel on Air France in First Class has to be cancelled. Consistent with DOT policy and guidelines, you are entitled to a full refund. Please note that the credit may not appear in your statement for another 24 to 48 hours.
In addition, you may request a refund of any reasonable, actual, and verifiable out-of-pocket expenses that were made in reliance upon the ticket purchase, upon presentation of receipts.
Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this misunderstanding may have caused.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Care Europe
My flight was actually purchased here in Canada, not the US, so "DOT policy and guidelines" do not apply to my reservation, but rather the Canadian equivalent.
I will assume that it would be roughly the same scenario for those of us North of the border ?
CC
Dec 21, 2017, 12:01 pm
#695
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In between BRU, AMS, DUS and LUX...
Programs: AF/KL Plat, BA Gold, A3 Gold, IHG Diamond, MR Gold, HH Diamond, ALL Platinum
Posts: 1,044
Missed their call today but just received the standard email :
Dear Captain Canuck
I have tried to call you today regarding the reservation you made with Air France on 19 December.
Due to a system error, your tickets for travel on Air France in First Class has to be cancelled. Consistent with DOT policy and guidelines, you are entitled to a full refund. Please note that the credit may not appear in your statement for another 24 to 48 hours.
In addition, you may request a refund of any reasonable, actual, and verifiable out-of-pocket expenses that were made in reliance upon the ticket purchase, upon presentation of receipts.
Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this misunderstanding may have caused.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Care Europe
My flight was actually purchased here in Canada, not the US, so "DOT policy and guidelines" do not apply to my reservation, but rather the Canadian equivalent.
I will assume that it would be roughly the same scenario for those of us North of the border ?
CC
Dear Captain Canuck
I have tried to call you today regarding the reservation you made with Air France on 19 December.
Due to a system error, your tickets for travel on Air France in First Class has to be cancelled. Consistent with DOT policy and guidelines, you are entitled to a full refund. Please note that the credit may not appear in your statement for another 24 to 48 hours.
In addition, you may request a refund of any reasonable, actual, and verifiable out-of-pocket expenses that were made in reliance upon the ticket purchase, upon presentation of receipts.
Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this misunderstanding may have caused.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Care Europe
My flight was actually purchased here in Canada, not the US, so "DOT policy and guidelines" do not apply to my reservation, but rather the Canadian equivalent.
I will assume that it would be roughly the same scenario for those of us North of the border ?
CC
Dec 21, 2017, 12:04 pm
#696
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP, IHG Diamond, IC Amb
Posts: 5,508
Every one's ready for the show?
Arrived at SFO for the AF0083 1515 departure PST at 1240.
Went to drop of my two luggages to the counter (yes, back home with a lot of gifts for Xmas)
Agent took my passport and BP.
Time passed and still typing in her computer. Never a good thing when you're already checked in and agent type and type and type.
One good, and one bad news..
Let me start with the bad one : I do get a F ticket that IS confirmed no problem there, but those 4 seats are taken by other PAX (and more profitable one hopefully for AF).
Good news is I got two option offered : wether get DWNGRD to C with 75% refund of the outbound part of my ticket (around 550ishEUR as per agent told me) and 800EUR voucher valid on AF/DL/KL for a year if I accept not to pursue AF with EU law.
Or cancel my itinerary + 800EUR voucher if I accept not to pursue AF with EU law.
Choice has been easy for me as I need to be in Europe before Xmas, flew C.
She told me my seat, 1L, is confirmed on my return, March 10th 2018.
Result : paid 1289ishEUR less around 550EUR (will believe it when I will see it on CC statement tho) and 800EUR voucher.
And still flew C to LHR and possibly F to SFO back.
Called AF Platinum line to see if I can get something more from them for the fact that F was overbooked on my way to LHR.
They couldn't do more than add the miles lost difference between C and F plus 8000 Miles to my FB account, witch is more than what I expected (reads a "no sire you had a nice price we cannot do anything on this one).
I think you can get all of that and ask for more again, so I felt a bite bad afterward. Will probably give those miles to UNICEF or MSF when they will be posted.
Just so you know, from the ETKT I received first (the one I posted showing a fare of 7700ishEUR) and the new one I received yesterday morning, I noticed couples of differences :
Under fare :
Used to be : 7700ishEUR
Now : FORFAIT
Don't know what that means, if some one knows.
Also, look at form of payment :
Used to be : NR + CCCA
Now : CCCA + NR + CA
NR is net fare, CCCA is credit card I think but no clue for CA?
On my booking page on AF.fr site, said I need to call AF if I want to change my flights or CXX.
Was curious so I inquired at AF lounge (was not granted F lounge as I didn't flew F sadly) to change my return to let say Febuary 12-13-14th, 2018 and make GF a nice surprise!
2mins later, he was surprised for Premičre ETKT but :
NOT changeable nor refundable --> basically you don't fly on March, 10th, you lost your money.
For me that's part of the "deal".
When you book an error fare, as long as you can fly, you can't really ask for more. AKA NH error fare was the same more or less.
Conditions are now stricter than they used to be, but won't complain about that.
As I flew business didn't took any pic. Will post some on my return if I am able to board F this time..!
Dude!!!! This is AWESOME!!!!!
CONGRATS!!!!
Dec 21, 2017, 12:04 pm
#697
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,026
Of course, I would pay off the balance even though I know I have credit coming back. I wouldn't buy something I know I can't afford. I hope you don't think that low of me.
Just out of principle - a merchant shouldn't take cash that they know they aren't entitled to and do whatever they want to do with the cash and refund on their own terms. No different than a person with high solvency borrowing money in a bind and not proactively paying back within reasonable timeframe. Just rude when an individual does that.
It's more efficient and cheaper for the merchant to just simply decline the payment than having the cash come on the books then a ledger entry tracking the cash has to be formed in the system, which is why I am surprised DL took the cash then again they are moving on this very slowly.
Witness the fact that many of us still have valid itineraries in our accounts.
For smaller merchants, there would be a cost here also. Amex doesn't refund fees to smaller merchants. So if you buy a $100 item at a smaller store with Amex, the merchant receives $96.50. If you return it, Amex pulls back $100 from the merchant. Net loss of $3.50.
I'm guessing Delta doesn't have that same deal with Amex, but it's possible they do lose something here that could have been avoided.
Dec 21, 2017, 12:10 pm
#698
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP, IHG Diamond, IC Amb
Posts: 5,508
Very strange indeed. If the merchant determines right away they will not provide goods/services and communicated that decision to the customer then shouldn't they manually decline the payment right away while its still pending?
Otherwise, would we be in the "right" to dispute any posted charges through the bank to block the payment from actually being paid to the merchant?
We shouldn't be subject to having to wait up to two statement cycles for the merchant to process the refund.
FWIW, my Citi Prestige MC still has my Air France purchases as pending.
Dec 21, 2017, 12:13 pm
#699
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
Dec 21, 2017, 12:15 pm
#700
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YKZ
Programs: AC MM SE, Marriott Titanium - Lifetime Plat 2nd Class, National Executive, Avis PP
Posts: 681
Dec 21, 2017, 12:18 pm
#701
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
Air France finally called me but the interaction was very strange... Just said this is Nancy calling from Air France which I replied with a hello and asked how her day was going. She said her day is going good and asked how was mine. I replied my day is going fine then she hung up 
Did they just hang up because they felt they can mark as call completed then move on to the next person?
Did they just hang up because they felt they can mark as call completed then move on to the next person?
Last edited by golfingboy; Dec 21, 2017 at 12:23 pm
Dec 21, 2017, 12:23 pm
#702
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
Bad, airline will provide copy's of FT thread and CTA will agree that you should have known it was a mistake (they are in airlines pocket to start) . Something about unilateral mistake doctrine. well it has been a few years since my last CTA complaint but i dont think much has changed. That's if they don't disclaim jurisdiction from the start since no part of the itin touches Canada. Mine was to Canada.
Last edited by CDKing; Dec 21, 2017 at 12:33 pm
Dec 21, 2017, 12:24 pm
#703
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,026
Air France finally called me but the interaction was very strange... Just said this is Nancy calling from Air France which I replied with a hello and asked how her day was going. She said her day is going good and asked how was mine. I replied my day is going fine then she hung up
Did they just hang up because they felt they can mark as call completed then move on to the next person?
Did they just hang up because they felt they can mark as call completed then move on to the next person?
I guess that record of the call is all they care about now.
Dec 21, 2017, 1:16 pm
#704
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: YUL, GVA, CTS
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Milage Plus
Posts: 62
Wait, you had a BP with a seat, came to the airport a bit under 3 hours before, and all 4 F seats "were taken?"
Doesn't make sense unless (i) you didnt actually have an assigned seat, (ii) all other F pax had arrived at the airport before you, (iii) you didn't actually have a confirmed F booking (it was manipulated in the back end at some point between OLCI and airport arrival), and agent was just "yessing" you.
Curiosity, did you happen to see if the 4 F seats were indeed occupied?
Doesn't make sense unless (i) you didnt actually have an assigned seat, (ii) all other F pax had arrived at the airport before you, (iii) you didn't actually have a confirmed F booking (it was manipulated in the back end at some point between OLCI and airport arrival), and agent was just "yessing" you.
Curiosity, did you happen to see if the 4 F seats were indeed occupied?
I didn't has the possibily to see F seats at all. When I boarded, curtains were already closed..
Dec 21, 2017, 1:21 pm
#705
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: YUL, GVA, CTS
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Milage Plus
Posts: 62
Glad to see that you made it through and were well taken care of here - we shall live vicariously through you on this one 
In regards to your query into the new fare code "Forfait" - en francais ca veut dire "crime" en anglais - it may just be a coincidence that they used that word, or our friends (term used very loosely) at Air france believe you have committed a crime by being able to take advantage of the fare that they offered you on this particular journey.
Please raise a glass of the best Champagne they have onboard to all of us other FT members on your return trip and Happy Holidays.
CC
In regards to your query into the new fare code "Forfait" - en francais ca veut dire "crime" en anglais - it may just be a coincidence that they used that word, or our friends (term used very loosely) at Air france believe you have committed a crime by being able to take advantage of the fare that they offered you on this particular journey.
Please raise a glass of the best Champagne they have onboard to all of us other FT members on your return trip and Happy Holidays.
CC
Je n'y manquerait pas, mais le meilleur champagne de C ne vaut certainement pas celui de F, donc je le ferais en Mars!
Joyeux Noel!
