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[PREM FARE GONE] AF Business Class LAX - LHR $1515

[PREM FARE GONE] AF Business Class LAX - LHR $1515

Old Dec 20, 2017, 1:50 pm
  #571  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
Regardless, it is unlikely to "hide" the ticket's true origins [and if issued on AF stock, a new ticket number is unlikely]; you may be able to launder dirty money, but you can't launder a dirty ticket
You have a lot to learn about how airline systems work as you're incorrect in both statements...
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 1:51 pm
  #572  
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Originally Posted by mills1090
I realize that I won't be flying LAX-LHR on AF, my question is would they still cancel it if I changed it to planned trip xxx-yyy and it would just be a xxx-yyy rountrip, but refundable and changable. Basically would it retain as a refundable DL ticket?
Again - to what end?

Apart from the fact that I doubt you can change both origin and destination, in a completely unlimited and random manner as you appear to suggest [that would instead be achieved by cancelling, and offsetting the refund against the new fare], you cannot simply carry over/impose the conditions of your current ticket onto the new one. Any new ticket will have its own price and rules, and you cannot "overrule" that in any way that would be to your benefit by leveraging your current ticket.

It sounds like you think you may be able to "unlock" the "hidden" value of your ticket, i.e. put the nominal $20k towards a new ticket, hiding the fact that you are not really entitled to that value.

Otherwise - you are just talking about cancelling your ticket for a full refund, and somehow wanting to put the exact amount you paid back in Delta's pocket for the purchase of a "new" ticket under "normal" conditions. And I don't see the need/desire/benefit in doing that.

You will get a full refund; you cannot now do anything that "magnifies" the value of the money that will eventually come back to you.

Whether you choose to put that money back into another DL ticket is your call. You don't have to. There is no upside to doing that, if that is what you are trying to suss out.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 1:54 pm
  #573  
 
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Just received an email, in a disgusting format (different fonts, bizarre logos etc...) from "KLM customer service desk " with the title :Update on your recent Air France ticket purchase (KMM - reference removed)

And the following text :

Dear Customer,As discussed, due to a system error, your Air France La Premiere ticket(s) which was recently purchased in La Premiere class has/have to be cancelled and will be fully refunded, consistent with DOT guidelines and policy.

We apologize for this inconvenience.

Please feel free to contact Air France.com websupport 1-800-992-3932 for any further assistance in this matter.

We thank you for your understanding and wish you a pleasant day ahead.

Kind Regards,
Air France

Very bizarre. I never received any call nor talked to anyone at AF/KL/DL about this case. They also don't mention which of the two bookings is cancelled. No mention of any ticket number or booking reference. Complete amateurs really. Looks like a badly outsourced job, phishing email quality.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 1:54 pm
  #574  
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Originally Posted by FrankTalk
You have a lot to learn about how airline systems work as you're incorrect in both statements...
Well I can tell you that, having changed my ticket in this particular "deal", AF does NOT issue a new e-ticket number
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 1:54 pm
  #575  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
Again - to what end?

Apart from the fact that I doubt you can change both origin and destination, in a completely unlimited and random manner as you appear to suggest [that would instead be achieved by cancelling, and offsetting the refund against the new fare], you cannot simply carry over/impose the conditions of your current ticket onto the new one. Any new ticket will have its own price and rules, and you cannot "overrule" that in any way that would be to your benefit by leveraging your current ticket.

It sounds like you think you may be able to "unlock" the "hidden" value of your ticket, i.e. put the nominal $20k towards a new ticket, hiding the fact that you are not really entitled to that value.

Otherwise - you are just talking about cancelling your ticket for a full refund, and somehow wanting to put the exact amount you paid back in Delta's pocket for the purchase of a "new" ticket under "normal" conditions. And I don't see the need/desire/benefit in doing that.

You will get a full refund; you cannot now do anything that "magnifies" the value of the money that will eventually come back to you.

Whether you choose to put that money back into another DL ticket is your call. You don't have to. There is no upside to doing that, if that is what you are trying to suss out.
I understand that now based on the responses. The only upside now would be that I don't have to wait or pursue a refund and future bookings are done, but that doesn't really matter. I was unclear on whether a refundable ticket stays refundable when rebooked... and now I know the answer is no. It was a simple question.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 1:55 pm
  #576  
 
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Originally Posted by yutuyu


I already have my BP for the today flights.
Checked in yesterday evening.
Will be at airport 3h+ before departure in case I need to negotiate or make some calls.

In the mean time, got woke up by a call from AF Platinum line based in Roissy concerning my second booking, the one I made on AF.us.
They told me AF.us is canceling bookings one after the others, but they will try there best to re-issue it by their dept in France, so it won't be cancelled.
I don't know what to think about that, but at least they called me to let me know it "might" be cancelled.. Still showing on AF website.
Would love to hear how this ends up post flight (with photos).

Just noticed that AF has finally made it to my reservation and have killed it in system.

No phone call from friendly European agent to tell me they are sorry but "no flight for you"
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 1:56 pm
  #577  
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Originally Posted by thexfactor
I am not aware of a single airline that keeps the same tkt# when there is an add/collect/refund involved (which there would be). What makes you say it's unlikely in the case of AF?
These tickets were fully flexible and changeable.

No add/collect/refund necessary. Except when the underlying fare basis was repriced!

I've experienced numerous rebooks - sometimes onto non-partner airlines - on AFKL down through the years that were effected without the need to generate a new e-ticket number.

From my experience with the numerous rebooks performed by Alitalia in their attempts to unpick the FLR-DUS error fare from a year ago, each change caused a new e-ticket number -and they were able to trace each one back to its origins.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 1:59 pm
  #578  
 
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Originally Posted by Rowyourboat
Mine were canceled. Received a call from AF/KLM desk and a very polite agent explained the circumstances. Very helpful and I told her I understood and thanked her for the info.

When we (on FlyerTalk) were booking this fare, we knew it was a mistake. Maybe some of you didn't, but the majority knew that paying 10% of the ticket price is a mistake for a cabin that is notorious for being small and private. The bloggers propped it up as a mistake, and lots of people booked knowing this was an error fare and not a "sale". I know the DOT rules around this - if the airline can prove it was a mistake, then they're off the hook except for non-refundable expenses related to travel. So no shock here.

I think the right course of action is to lobby the DOT to start enforcing mistake fares. There was a cool USA Today article a while ago about how most people felt mistake fares shouldn't have to be honored, but those were the days when airlines were relatively friendlier. Now it's all about revenue optimization and squeezing any penny possible out of travelers, so we should be equally adamant in squeezing the airlines when we can.

When I book these fares, I know most of them will be overturned. I was upset and filed a DOT complaint at the VA fare because they took over a week to cancel it. AF was prompt, called, and did quite a bit in a short time to rectify the situation. So I'm not going to whine about what happened, but I'm not going to defend the airlines either. I want to figure out what it takes to get the DOT to change their policy and try to make that happen.
My only issue is that they COULD make accommodations and present alternative solutions which could turn into a win-win for everyone. For instance, they could offer to honor the fare in Business Class. $1500RT is a good deal in business but NOT a mistake fare (I once got an $1100 RT SFO-IST on AF that was legit). If they offered this as an option, I think most people would take it, giving AF goodwill and potential customers.

I did grab the ANA YVR-SYD mistake fare, which they honored (at similar "exchange rate" of $10:1 for what I paid what a normal biz fare would be), and I would now seek out their flights for (1) because I had a good experience on their flights, and (2) because I want to return the good will they showed me.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 2:02 pm
  #579  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
These tickets were fully flexible and changeable.

No add/collect/refund necessary. Except when the underlying fare basis was repriced!
Huh? We're talking about OPs proposed course of action to change his/her AF F-ticketed-and-operated itin to an AF-ticketed-and-DL-operated-itin (to supposedly maintain flexibility of original tkt).

Doing so would result in a new tkt#. No one suggested--certainly not me--that a change of the AF F ticket to the same AF F ticket (same basis, without add/collect) would result in a new tkt #, but again, that's not what we were discussing.

Originally Posted by irishguy28
I've experienced numerous rebooks - sometimes onto non-partner airlines - on AFKL down through the years that were effected without the need to generate a new e-ticket number.
To the extent you're referring to invol changes, that would be different.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 2:05 pm
  #580  
 
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too much effort. volume here is several thousand tickets.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 2:10 pm
  #581  
 
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Originally Posted by FoxFlyer
My only issue is that they COULD make accommodations and present alternative solutions which could turn into a win-win for everyone. For instance, they could offer to honor the fare in Business Class. $1500RT is a good deal in business but NOT a mistake fare (I once got an $1100 RT SFO-IST on AF that was legit). If they offered this as an option, I think most people would take it, giving AF goodwill and potential customers.

I did grab the ANA YVR-SYD mistake fare, which they honored (at similar "exchange rate" of $10:1 for what I paid what a normal biz fare would be), and I would now seek out their flights for (1) because I had a good experience on their flights, and (2) because I want to return the good will they showed me.
+1.
AF/KL is already not my airline of choice for long haul flights, just for intra-EU travel. I might have accepted a change of the ticket to business class if they would have proposed or even called me, perhaps a way to gain a new long haul customer. Now I am not even sure I want to use them anymore, even for short haul flights. The lack of customer service here is just astonishing in my opinion. I actually wonder how many people have made a booking of this "mistake fare". I guess we are not talking about thousands...
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 2:13 pm
  #582  
 
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I just received a call from AF. There was not really an opportunity to negotiate on any level. It was a purely informational call that my ticket had been cancelled due to system error, the agent politely apologized and hung up. It is clear they are just trying to get through this as quickly as possible.

I am pleased at how efficiently they handled the situation by calling me within 24 hours and harbor no ill feelings towards them as a result.

I also received the following e-mail a few moments after the call.

Dear Customer,

As discussed, due to a system error, your Air France La Premiere ticket which was recently purchased in La Premiere class has/have to be cancelled and will be fully refunded, consistent with DOT guidelines and policy.

We apologize for this inconvenience.


Please feel free to contact Air France.com websupport 1-800-992-3932 for any further assistance in this matter.

We thank you for your understanding and wish you a pleasant day ahead.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 2:16 pm
  #583  
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Originally Posted by thexfactor
Huh? We're talking about OPs proposed course of action to change his/her AF F-ticketed-and-operated itin to an AF-ticketed-and-DL-operated-itin (to supposedly maintain flexibility of original tkt).
It was not possible to make that change online (trust me, I looked and changed mine; the only options that were automatically presented were only all-AF replacements); to get a human involved would have, I am almost certain, have obtained your/their desired outcome [involving DL segments] by cancelling, refunding, and booking a new ticket.

And whatever about the safeguards that may have been lacking to sell these tickets at this price in the first place, I sincerely doubt that you could have - or currently can if you are lucky enough to still have an active itinerary - to simply "change" this ticket into a totally different ticket, maintaining all the flexibility of the original, without someone (human or machine) noticing that there is a significant underpayment when attempting to do so.


Originally Posted by thexfactor
To the extent you're referring to invol changes, that would be different.
And also a voluntary, free-of-charge change I made to my one and only ticket yesterday before the fare was pulled.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 2:24 pm
  #584  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
It was not possible to make that change online (trust me, I looked and changed mine; the only options that were automatically presented were only all-AF replacements); to get a human involved would have, I am almost certain, have obtained your/their desired outcome [involving DL segments] by cancelling, refunding, and booking a new ticket.

And whatever about the safeguards that may have been lacking to sell these tickets at this price in the first place, I sincerely doubt that you could have - or currently can if you are lucky enough to still have an active itinerary - to simply "change" this ticket into a totally different ticket, maintaining all the flexibility of the original, without someone (human or machine) noticing that there is a significant underpayment when attempting to do so.

And also a voluntary, free-of-charge change I made to my one and only ticket yesterday before the fare was pulled.
I was able to prompt the DL.com change flight tool to price out new segments, which raised the question in my mind. Whether that tool would allow me to execute a change, might be subject to safe gaurds or errors, but I was able to get to the checkout page FWIW, but decided against taking any action as the desired outcome wouldn't work because I would be subject to new fare rules.
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Old Dec 20, 2017, 2:27 pm
  #585  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
It was not possible to make that change online (trust me, I looked and changed mine; the only options that were automatically presented were only all-AF replacements); to get a human involved would have, I am almost certain, have obtained your/their desired outcome [involving DL segments] by cancelling, refunding, and booking a new ticket.

And whatever about the safeguards that may have been lacking to sell these tickets at this price in the first place, I sincerely doubt that you could have - or currently can if you are lucky enough to still have an active itinerary - to simply "change" this ticket into a totally different ticket, maintaining all the flexibility of the original, without someone (human or machine) noticing that there is a significant underpayment when attempting to do so.




And also a voluntary, free-of-charge change I made to my one and only ticket yesterday before the fare was pulled.

Yeah, somehow I think we're talking passed each other, but for the sake of the thread, I'll leave it be.

I've been around the block, and I've never seen a voluntary change to a ticket (resulting in add/collect/refund) that maintained same number. You claim you've had it multiple times.

If you're recollection is correct, great, I've learned something.
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