Phantom OW Pricing

Old Sep 14, 17, 3:19 pm
  #1  
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Phantom OW Pricing

I have been searching for two business class round trip or one way from YYZ to several destinations in Russia next June.

Google flights brings up pretty good pricing for 2 J tickets-- $3k one way or $6k RT.

Routing tends to be BA to LHR, AY to HEL, and AY connecting on to Russia.

Pricing only seems to be through AY link, but when clicking on the link AYs website is unresponsive.
The BA and AA links are all double that pricing.

Has anyone seen anything similar?
Does this sound like something that I can get to ticket or is it just phantom pricing?

Thanks!
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Old Sep 14, 17, 3:23 pm
  #2  
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Wrong forum.
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Old Sep 14, 17, 3:27 pm
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Wrong forum and we need more information.
please post google flights link
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Old Sep 14, 17, 3:28 pm
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It does sound like something you can get. I have gotten ~2.4k for RT YYZ-SIN through similar routing. YYZ-LHR-HEL-SIN. Russia should be cheaper.

Have you tried directly booking with AY? That's what I did when it was time to book.

Browsing through Google Flights, I have found cheaper prices for June trips, but it isn't for every date. Are you locked into your date? I saw one that went all the way to AY pricing at 2402.22 CAD ~ $2,000 USD June 14-20.
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Old Sep 14, 17, 3:30 pm
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Originally Posted by nutwpinut View Post
It does sound like something you can get. I have gotten ~2.4k for RT YYZ-SIN through similar routing. YYZ-LHR-HEL-SIN. Russia should be cheaper.

Have you tried directly booking with AY? That's what I did when it was time to book.

Browsing through Google Flights, I have found cheaper prices for June trips, but it isn't for every date. Are you locked into your date? I saw one that went all the way to AY pricing at 2402.22 CAD ~ $2,000 USD June 14-20.
I'm seeing a lot of dates early June for ~$2k USD RT per person. YYZ-SVO

https://www.google.com/flights/#sear...=ONEWORLD;eo=e

Last edited by nutwpinut; Sep 14, 17 at 3:31 pm Reason: Added google flights link
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Old Sep 14, 17, 3:33 pm
  #6  
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Fare requests and planned trips for work or holiday etc. are not allowed in the Mileage Run Forum or anywhere on FlyerTalk. See the rules for posting in the Premium Fare Forum and the Mileage Run Forum.

I will keep this thread open only to respond to the issue of fare mapping/phantom fares. All other responses will be deleted.

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Old Sep 14, 17, 4:55 pm
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Originally Posted by Aroeder View Post
I have been searching for two business class round trip or one way from YYZ to several destinations in Russia next June.

Google flights brings up pretty good pricing for 2 J tickets-- $3k one way or $6k RT.

Routing tends to be BA to LHR, AY to HEL, and AY connecting on to Russia.

Pricing only seems to be through AY link, but when clicking on the link AYs website is unresponsive.
The BA and AA links are all double that pricing.

Has anyone seen anything similar?
Does this sound like something that I can get to ticket or is it just phantom pricing?

Thanks!

My example does not include Russia, but the info may help you understand the challenges

I've been following the YYZ-LHR-HEL-SIN/HKG fares on AY for about a year.

On specific dates combinations, the lowest fares (what AY calls Business Saver) have been:

SIN $3,402-3,408 CAD
HKG $3,421-3,428 CAD

The various routing options could be seen on GF and then when you click "Book with Finnair" it would take you right to the booking page with the dates you selected and an average of 5 flight combination options with BA & AY.

All were bookable on AY.

In the past 4-6 months, I noticed that while GF still shows them, once you get to the AY site, the fares are much higher, as in no Business Saver fares on the dates you selected. If you play around with the calendar, you might find on e of the lower fares.

I also felt that the fares were "phantom". So I called a few very experienced TAs including AX. They were getting prices that were well over $7,000. Nuts. Based on conversations, it seems that there may be an issue with married segments, there may be an issue with POS and also, agents who book using Sabre etc were getting the double prices, but they use that system and do not book on AY's website.

Of course I am not paying it so the agents suggested if it's bookable on AY, then do it there.

I also spoke with another TA who was able to book it although I did not ask if it was via the AY website or the TA system.


Finally, whereas GF was also showing the outbound AND the returns as YYZ-LHR-HEL-SIN/HKG (with various combinations of BA and AY), recently, GF now shows the outbound as YYZ-ORD-HEL-SIN/HKG.

When you look at AY's site, similar situation, the Business Saver is only available outbound via ORD.


So are the fares phantom?

I don't think so. AY (and perhaps BA) are obviously limiting what can be purchased out of YYZ and a Canadian POS.

And you will not find them on most days. You have to be flexible with your schedule. And, sometimes, there is an extra stop in BKK on the HEL-SIN leg.


Otherwise, I agree with the mod that the OP doesn't belong in the MR forum, but I thought I'd help answer the questions based on my own research and experience.
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Old Sep 14, 17, 8:22 pm
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I'm fairly certain this isn't a phantom fare, and I speak from personal experience: I flew this exact route twice this past summer. Both were via HEL; one was on BA via LHR as well as HEL, and the other was a YYZ-HEL nonstop on AY. One ticket was US$1,950 r/t, and the other was $1,750 - both at times when there were zero discounted J fares between North America and anywhere in Europe (or from any US city to Moscow). I also bought both of them less than three weeks ahead of time.

I have no idea why they're showing up as phantom fares -- maybe because you're trying to buy them so far ahead of time? -- but I also have no idea why these fares are pretty routinely available, from what I've seen, even in the middle of peak travel season. Also, just FYI, similar fares are available ex-YUL as well.

Edit: To clarify, the exact route I flew was YYZ-SVO (one via LHR, both via HEL).

Last edited by kirker; Sep 14, 17 at 8:23 pm Reason: noted
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