Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Mileage Run Deals > Mileage Run Discussion
Reload this Page >

[PREM FARE GONE] FLR-HKG/ICN/NRT-DUS from 770 / J

[PREM FARE GONE] FLR-HKG/ICN/NRT-DUS from 770 / J

    Hide Wikipost
Old Jan 18, 17, 4:12 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: irishguy28
Wiki Link
Unofficial cancellation statement from Alitalia: see post #2414, or the original post in Italian on a similar Italian forum

COW8C fare rules available in post #147 (second box)
DOW8C fare rules available in post #150
IOWGE fare rules available in post #1241
IRTGE fare rules available in post #1555
CRTEU fare rules available in post #1589
DOWGE fare rules available in post #1601
IRT8C2 fare rules available in post #2105
Print Wikipost

Old Dec 31, 16, 6:17 am
  #3646  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 26,505
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
Close but not quite: the test to establish whether the contract can be voided for mistake would be whether the purchaser knew or should reasonably have known that it was a mistake. This is the typical common law test, though. Other legal systems have similar but not quite identical tests. You would have to be familiar with the Italian legal system to decide how Italian law deals with it.
Thanks.
KARFA is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 6:21 am
  #3647  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 26,505
Originally Posted by diego980 View Post
I began the legal way because the rate has been sold on all GDS not for 10 minutes but for more than 10 days

DOW8C
"SYSTEM DATES - CREATED 28NOV16 / 0419 EXPIRES 10DEC16 / 1117"

This will make it very difficult for alitalia justify it as a computer error

I believe that one of the objectives of this forum is to help other users to take advantage of the best deals, not to demolish in words anyone who tries a different path from that desired by the company (ie. reimburse more tickets as possible).

Many times I remboursed quickly some error-that I had bought, because the ticket did not interest me that much.

In this case I am Italian, the rate I got is for me very interesting (Japan EUR 630) and I have the tools to try to win the game with AZ, so I try.

We'll see how it goes!
So you looked at GDS prior to booking? I am not sure why an expiry dates in a fare makes you think there wasn't some mistake in the fare?

As I asked, did you know or should you reasonably have known it was or may be a mistake when you booked it? If you are looking at GDS it seems you are quite a sophisticated traveler so what did you think when you looked at GDS ans saw a one way business class fare which you used to book trips to the far corners of the earth? Is that what you usually see on GDS?

Last edited by KARFA; Dec 31, 16 at 6:32 am
KARFA is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 6:41 am
  #3648  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,849
Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
So you looked at GDS prior to booking? I am not sure why an expiry dates in a fare makes you think there wasn't some mistake in the fare?

As I asked, did you know or should you reasonably have known it was or may be a mistake when you booked it? If you are looking at GDS it seems you are quite a sophisticated traveler so what did you think when you looked at GDS ans saw a one way business class fare which you used to book trips to the far corners of the earth? Is that what you usually see on GDS?
Could have checked after. And again, we can be certain that the only mistake here is the price for the routing taken, and that's why AZ is taking action, not on principle to relief people of unnecessary travel between FLR and DUS.
Lack is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 6:45 am
  #3649  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 26,505
Originally Posted by Lack View Post
Could have checked after.
That's why I am asking to establish whether it was before or after.

And again, we can be certain that the only mistake here is the price for the routing taken, and that's why AZ is taking action, not on principle to relief people of unnecessary travel between FLR and DUS.
As I already noted, the mistake wasn't the price per se. But as I also noted, I didn't know what the mistake was when I booked, yet I reasonably knew something wasn't right and there was some mistake. I am interested in diego980's answer though.
KARFA is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 6:48 am
  #3650  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,091
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
You would have to be familiar with the Italian legal system to decide how Italian law deals with it.
Given the tortuous paths making the Italian legal system and its painfully slow & bygone nature, odds are that one could possibly compromise their will to live before a decision is even made, not to mention the subsequent referrals to local courts and the likes, which are highly likely to come into play. In a nutshell, I'd be more bothered about the when rather than the hows.

G
AlicorporateUK is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 7:41 am
  #3651  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,849
Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
As I already noted, the mistake wasn't the price per se. But as I also noted, I didn't know what the mistake was when I booked, yet I reasonably knew something wasn't right and there was some mistake. I am interested in diego980's answer though.
But the final outcome is that Alitalia is not happy about the price. Do you think they'd argue computer error if the price had another zero in it? Do they cancel the bookings (if there are any) with the 5k EUR surcharge or change them to a more direct way? Highly doubt it. They've just shown gross negligence handling their business and now they're crying wolf when someone exposed it.
Lack is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 7:45 am
  #3652  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Programs: BA Gold, EY Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Fairmont Platinum
Posts: 11,327
Originally Posted by AlicorporateUK View Post
Given the tortuous paths making the Italian legal system and its painfully slow & bygone nature, odds are that one could possibly compromise their will to live before a decision is even made, not to mention the subsequent referrals to local courts and the likes, which are highly likely to come into play. In a nutshell, I'd be more bothered about the when rather than the hows.

G
Just out of interest if I live in the UK and booked through a UK OTA then I would have thought the claim would been through the small claims court there?
onlysuites is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 7:52 am
  #3653  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: U.K.
Programs: UA 1K; QR P; HH D; MR G; IHG SpAmb
Posts: 686
Originally Posted by onlysuites View Post
Just out of interest if I live in the UK and booked through a UK OTA then I would have thought the claim would been through the small claims court there?
What would you be claiming for? Assuming you booked by credit card, it would be for them to sort out if the OTA doesn't.
a9504477 is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 7:57 am
  #3654  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,091
Originally Posted by onlysuites View Post
Just out of interest if I live in the UK and booked through a UK OTA then I would have thought the claim would been through the small claims court there?
You would indeed do the necessary (i.e. small claims court and the likes) in Britain. I was mainly referring to the post which made mention of the Italian legal system for a dispute initiated in Italy by a local resident.

G
AlicorporateUK is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 7:59 am
  #3655  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,849
Originally Posted by a9504477 View Post
What would you be claiming for? Assuming you booked by credit card, it would be for them to sort out if the OTA doesn't.
If you had the courage to buy a more expensive replacement ticket you could ask for a reimbursement on the difference.
Lack is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 7:59 am
  #3656  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 26,505
Originally Posted by Lack View Post
But the final outcome is that Alitalia is not happy about the price. Do you think they'd argue computer error if the price had another zero in it? Do they cancel the bookings (if there are any) with the 5k EUR surcharge or change them to a more direct way? Highly doubt it. They've just shown gross negligence handling their business and now they're crying wolf when someone exposed it.
KARFA is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 8:28 am
  #3657  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,849
Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
What so confusing? Are you trying to imply Alitalia cares about the principles here and would/did also cancel the fares booked with the surcharge on the basis of a scenic route taken?
Lack is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 8:44 am
  #3658  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by AlicorporateUK View Post
You would indeed do the necessary (i.e. small claims court and the likes) in Britain. I was mainly referring to the post which made mention of the Italian legal system for a dispute initiated in Italy by a local resident.

G

you are the ambassador of the airline and in what way you help us clarify the matter?
luftair is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 9:05 am
  #3659  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,091
Originally Posted by luftair View Post
you are the ambassador of the airline and in what way you help us clarify the matter?
Ambassador of the airline on FlyerTalk - just to avoid any misinterpretation or lost in translation scenarios I'm not entirely sure to which matter you are referring, however:

  • When people were fearing protracted waiting situations in terms of refunding times, I shared (pages ago) my experience with Amex (who reinstalled the funds on my account overnight); as a matter of fact, I did warn (at the very beginning) that it could have been slightly disquieting to deal with AZ in terms of refund-processing.

  • With regards to legal actions, as mentioned above and in the post you kindly quoted, I'm afraid I'm not in a position to tell whether it would be good or not to initiate such actions, simply because 1. I work in pharmaceuticals and I wouldn't have a clue about any robust ground on which an individual would base a claim in that respect, however 2. Given the fact that I lived in Italy for a few years, I felt it would have been useful to share an opinion on the legal system in the Country (based on direct experience).

That aside, if there's anything you'd specifically like me to help you with, do let me know (may I also refer you to other threads on this forum concerning the role of the Ambassador here on FlyerTalk).



G

Last edited by AlicorporateUK; Dec 31, 16 at 9:29 am
AlicorporateUK is offline  
Old Dec 31, 16, 9:27 am
  #3660  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: Enough
Posts: 881
I said it before, and I'll say it again: any ticket subject to English common-law rules would typically fall under the rule of unilateral mistake. In this case, Alitalia's only remedy would be rescission, that is, voiding the contract. Alitalia, very stupidly, decided to rely on self-help, and unilaterally altered the contract instead of using the only remedy available to them, being cancelling and refunding the reservation.

It could be argued that by altering the contract, Alitalia is in breach of contract. Had they voided the contracts, I believe they'd be fine, but they lost that opportunity once they altered reservations. For fun, I'm going to cite myself: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2727403. My 2 cents.

Now, whether the ticket is subject to English common-law will depend on where the reservation was made (both physically and on what OTA). But I digress.
durberville is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread