vasantn

No need for OTAs; you could have bought it from AA itself. And many did.

iahphx

That actually seems like a pretty good argument. The reality here is that a lot of the people who currently are having their fares honored lucked into it by mistake: they thought there were getting 24 hours to cancel, even if they weren't. They didn't know about AA's unusual hold guarantee. Meanwhile, the folks who did know about the hold guarantee (aka, their existing customers) were "afraid" to ticket knowing AA's no-cancellation policy and knowing that the hold was the way on AA.com to guarantee the fare for 24 hours yet maintain some flexibility.

It's more evidence that what's going on here is wrong.

janetdoe

Agreed, I understand that normally, zero versus non-zero is a black-and-white distinction and I would not consider it arbitrary.

But in this case, it ignores the fact that AA charged $350 for some tickets and $370 for others, and only canceled the ones where they charged $350.

"AA, as a policy, does not file nor intend to offer/file fares priced at zero (exclusive of any surcharge). Essentially, such fares do not make any economic sense. "

They were happy to sell $0.50 base fares to Europe last summer, but all the somehow reducing the fare by fifty cents would completely illogical and would never make economic sense and is such a glaring error that the ticket should never be issued and is something AA could have never intended or fathomed?

The (exclusive of surcharge) clause is ridiculous and I think DOT will treat this with the same contempt it treated Delta's similar gambit.

miffSC

I think this is why, perhaps, that it has been much easier this evening to cancel unwanted tickets than it was earlier in the day...

And quite frankly, IMO, the 24 hour hold is far more risky and less user friendly than the 24 hour cancellation policy. I'd like American to take a long hard look at this and adopt the US Airways policy of 24 hour cancellation.

I see no benefit (as many are now discovering) in even having a 24 hour hold if the airlines have the prerogative to unilaterally cancel held flights at their discretion.

Yes.

Cachris69

i held 2 tickets last night, and a couple hours later booked them because a had a feeling something like this might happen. I see no way the tickets put on hold won't be honored. Assuming they are this will be a logistical nightmare for AA. Will the reload the held tickets, regardless of what the load factor is now, and how will they establish a "24 hour" purchase window? My tickets are booked and still showing OK, so best of luck to everyone else. My wife to be is already giving me flack about going to PEK without her even though I got her a ticket to come along the following week... bye bye

jfkeze

They could just reinstate the hold based upon the original PNR. Not everyone is gonna book them even on hold, many moved on or can't take the time off so they could even get rid of some holds with 10,000 miles or so good will.
But the whole canceling in the afternoon , no CXL in the morning and killing holds make the 24 hour violation clear, it's either you eat your cake or keep it.
but the key thing is to see how DOT tries to argue pro-AA on this one since it was not malicious, no Chinese AA website , just a normal ticket purchased on AA.com or other OTA.

Long Train Runnin

Exactly last night I saw this it took me a few minutes to get it to pop up on Google Flights and then have the price push through to AA.com I thought about throwing a hold on it, but with the mistake fare I figured I should go ahead and pay now and try to get it to ticket sooner rather than later. The whole thing is/was a gamble, but I figured not using the hold could put me in a slightly better position. I have a $20 base fare, so I am hoping that I will be spending a couple nights in Beijing in May.

bellpride

Just some thoughts from a doe-eyed rookie in this game:

I've been monitoring this thread to see if I'll be able to take the trip of a lifetime to Beijing (looks like I will - it's ticketed with a $20 base fare), but learned something else along the way.

How many folks are actually flying to see something other than a bump in their mileage statement? Or their status on AA? Goodness, flying enough RTs to create new status on AS?

How many consider these flights or destinations beneath them? The outdated 2-3-2 J, the destination (saw someone trying to escape "filthy" PEK for BKK?), etc.

I can't even imagine the amount of money this is costing AA, and how their most "loyal" fliers are kicking them when they're down. You already have several tickets, put several more on hold, and you're wielding the DOT axe because they're attempting to cancel your holds? Judging by how my cabins' seatmaps have changed, AA has probably lost 25-50% of its J/F capacity over the next few months...and while I don't know their typical load factors, I'm pretty sure they could sell those seats at a lot more than $120 per segment.

I lost my grandmother in Aachen last year, and the only reason I was able to make her funeral was because of AA off-peak awards. Several months out of college, I had nowhere near the amount of money for a close-in TATL booking, not enough Skypesos (150k?!), not enough MR points to transfer to partners, no UR points at all. Additionally US Airways instantly waived the cancellation fees for my domestic flights without any proof.

And because of that alone, I am loyal to AA/US much more than Delta, even while based in Atlanta. I fly AA on their new ATL-LGA route not because I only have AA/US status (US CP and DL Plat), or it nets me more (H/S/M fares earn plenty under DL's new system), but because I hope the new American succeeds.

This will be the first international business I'll fly in over 175k miles on OW, because it's the first I can afford. And you know what's strange? I'll love the journey. It'll be much more comfortable than Y even though it's 30-50% of a fair price, and I'll get to see the Forbidden Palace, Great Wall, and who knows what else when I get there.

So for all the pure mileage runners, I don't think I'm better than you...we just think differently. I'm also not saying you should give up your tickets or withdraw your DOT complaints. Just know that when this merger finishes and AA's M&A consultants start looking at increasing profit, they're going to look square at DL/UA and start by cutting you out of their bottom line. Revenue-based mileage and minimum spending. And while I'll shake my head and wish the former weren't so, I won't blame them one bit.

And for the AA employees still monitoring this, please know you (unwillingly) gave someone one hell of a Memorial Day present, and that all my just-DL colleagues are jealous, because they know I'm more loved than they are.

onfo

CTA repeat???

paramenace

Called in and was allowed to cancel one of mine with full refund issued

dleavitt39

It just so happened I have to be in Shanghai 4/22 to 4/27. I got home from HKG-DFW-LAS last night, turned on the computer, and saw this fare. Hopped online, purchased DCA-ORD-PEK R/T for $450. However, they must have been in the middle of fixing the error, as my outbound booked into business, but my return was in coach, business on return was about 1800 extra. But I'm booked 4/20 to 4/27. Got my systemwide confirmed for the outbound, sitting in my favorite seat, 1J. On the return, waitlisted, but have 31J as of now. Love how the timing just happened to work out on this.

Dan

ben1979

Welcome

I'm not trying to be rude or sarcastic, but does it matter? Some people want to see Beijing, some might need higher status for whatever reason.


I'm of the belief that when it comes to mistake fares, if they honor it, great, if not, better luck next time. I don't believe in this whole calling AA and whine and filing DOT complaint nonsense, but I am a minority on here. However, I don't agree with your "most loyal flyers kicking them while their down" comment. This is just human being human. It's not like this mistake was only available to AA elites. AA elites has more to gain and more incentive, when it comes to increased bonus, but $442 is a strong enough incentive for anyone. In the end AA does not give a crap why you are flying, so I don't agree with the AA loyal flyers kicking AA while their are down. This is everyone taking advantage of AA's mistake, and some are greedier than others.

I actually do like AA a lot. Not in the "Suck less than Delta and United" way, but in the "They've already treated me well as a customer and their staff has been great" way. With that said, I am under no illusion that I am anything but a number to them. They treat me well because they are doing their job, and their staff treats me well because they staff is doing a good job. They .... up and pull less ........ than United and Delta, in my personal opinion.

There is no question that once the merger is through AA's consultants are going to look at cutbacks. They are going to do this regardless of mistake fares or no mistake fares. I'm happy for you that you are going to enjoy this trip of a life time, along with many other who aren't in it for the miles, but honestly AA doesn't give it a damn why we fly. AA is going to do what a corporation does best and milk as much revenues out of each one of us, and we are going to take advantage of non-mistake sales and promotions as much as we can and mistake fares as much as we each is ethically comfortable.

vasantn

I am quite certain that any loss to AA is immaterial. There is no way that they lost 25%-50% of premium capacity. My estimate is that there will be perhaps 5 people on any given flight who took advantage of this fare, and AA is not going to fill up the premium cabin with paid fares anyway. Since these people would not have flown without the low fare, this is mostly incremental revenue to AA. So I wouldn't be too quick to cry them a river.

I couldn't have said it any better. ^^

sbrower

One of us will be wrong when this is over, but I am willing to go out on my own limb and say that you are simply misinterpreting the rule. There are TWO rules at work here. One says that the airline, for the convenience of the customer, must either offer 24 hour hold or 24 hour right to cancel. A DIFFERNT rule says that if you PAY for a ticket the airline can't change the price (except that there are exceptions made, even by the DOT, where the payment is so ridiculous that it will undermine the purpose of the rule).

ben1979

So from the 4 segments that I look at yesterday, I would say they were about 15% full when I initially booked and picked seats, but 90% full when I checked this morning to verify my reservations. Just based my DFW-PEK-DFW and ORD-PEK-ORD, seems like this mistake made up 50-60% of the cabin just based on my personal observation for mid-May

But yeah, without the fare good chunk of the premium cabin are going to be taken up by people upgrading from Y. Like you said this will cost AA some incremental revenue and some catering, which won't be much especially if you considering their total global capacity. I mean from what I heard how this mistake happened, someone is definitely going to be fired (and I'm not making light of someone losing their job because we all screw up sometimes), but in the grand scheme of things I really doubt this is going to impact them much.