Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!
DOT Investigation Updates
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According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.
However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Tips for DOT Complaint:
Template For Complaint:
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015
Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information
Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.
"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.
In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!
DOT Investigation Updates
- 02/23/15: DOT says UA does not have to honor the fare; link to DOT's full explanation (pdf)
- 02/12/15: DOT Statement
- 02/12/15: fox news mentions DOT investigation and mention update by 5:00 pm ET -- posted by xSTRIKEx6864
- 02/12/15: Fox news clip -- posted by FlyingLasse
- 02/12/15: Another clip on fox news interviewing the pointsguy -- posted by FlyingLasse
- 02/12/15: Person in charge at the dot is Alex Taday (don't bombard him with email - or we will all regret it) -- posted by sonofzeus
- 02/12/15: Fox News update: UA honoring fares will depends on complaints made at the DOT.... -- posted by synd
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According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Tips for DOT Complaint:
- File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
- If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
- If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
- The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
- When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.
Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.
Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.
United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.
At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.
Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL
Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.
Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.
United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.
At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.
Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL
Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.
Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
- paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
- change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
- go to the webpage address you have just created
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X
Breathe deep.
Congrats on all who got in.
Now comes the fun part.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
R E L A X
Breathe deep.
Congrats on all who got in.
Now comes the fun part.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information
Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.
"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.
In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link
Feb 18, 2015, 3:56 pm
#4426
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Given the DOT regulation which clearly says mistake fares must be honored, I already was making solid plans on the basis of this. The rest of my family was adjusting obligations (my brother turned down a $1k contract based on these dates instead of the EI dates) and making plans.
Everyman and his dog knew the fares were mistakes, and mistakes of such a gross nature that the tickets were instruments of precarious value.
Our only hope is a DOT regulation yet to be interpreted in an arena where its intended scale and scope will be sorely tested.
Not being able to rely on advertised, purchased, and confirmed prices is abusive harm. It is broadly acknowledged by economists and vividly demonstrated by banana republics that lack of contract solidity (nationalization of oil companies, Russian-style crony capitalism), fiat currency uncertainty (rapid inflation or deflation Zimbabwe-style), and all manner of not having the solidity of knowing that a deal is a deal at the agreed upon value, bring extreme economic harm in the macro. Movement toward that model where certain big businesses own the government and make the rules of contracts asymmetrical is bad. No, this issue will not cause economic collapse in the US, but it will do damage to the public's trust in buying airline tickets and knowing that a confirmation is a confirmation, which does bring economic damage. However, the greatest harm and abuse is the macro trend toward crony capitalism where the rules are different for the big guys versus the little guys.
If I make a bankrupting financial mistake, I lose my house; AIG makes a bankrupting financial mistake, they get an $85b bailout. I make a mistake in purchasing tickets, they're non-refundable; United makes a mistake in selling tickets, they're rescindable with not a bit of penalty. What's the direct harm to me? The $k's of change fees I've spent, for starters. But the damage of slanted playing fields--fields slanted by billion dollar lobbyists--to the overall economic and legal systems is much greater.
If I make a bankrupting financial mistake, I lose my house; AIG makes a bankrupting financial mistake, they get an $85b bailout. I make a mistake in purchasing tickets, they're non-refundable; United makes a mistake in selling tickets, they're rescindable with not a bit of penalty. What's the direct harm to me? The $k's of change fees I've spent, for starters. But the damage of slanted playing fields--fields slanted by billion dollar lobbyists--to the overall economic and legal systems is much greater.
As far as I know the DOT regulation under discussion is unique. Anywhere else in the world our tickets would most likely be dead. As we saw in Canada over the Rangoon mistake fares, the contract underlying air tickets is like any other: it can be rescinded in certain circumstances.
One of those circumstances is where the purchaser knowingly takes advantage of a fare he/she should have known to be a mistake. Only the US has specific legislation which might prevent this from happening.
Feb 18, 2015, 3:56 pm
#4427
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: AA Plat, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 425
Given the DOT regulation which clearly says mistake fares must be honored, I already was making solid plans on the basis of this. The rest of my family was adjusting obligations (my brother turned down a $1k contract based on these dates instead of the EI dates) and making plans. Like I say more clearly below, if the DOT doesn't like their existing rules, they need to modify them. But in the meantime, they must enforce them, because the existence of those rules magnifies the harm if they were to change their minds and not enforce the rules as written after all, because people who are aware of the rules and have seen the past pattern of enforcement then rely on these error fares and make firm plans on the basis of them, even when the airlines are ignorant of the rules.
If I make a bankrupting financial mistake, I lose my house; AIG makes a bankrupting financial mistake, they get an $85b bailout. I make a mistake in purchasing tickets, they're non-refundable; United makes a mistake in selling tickets, they're rescindable with not a bit of penalty. What's the direct harm to me? The $k's of change fees I've spent, for starters. But the damage of slanted playing fields--fields slanted by billion dollar lobbyists--to the overall economic and legal systems is much greater.
I feel you on having had to pay change fees for when you made a mistake, but it's really not germane to your argument. United didn't wait to cancel your ticket; they voided them within 8 hours. If you had canceled your ticket within 8 hours, you wouldn't have paid a penalty either.
Feb 18, 2015, 3:59 pm
#4428
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 43
Given the DOT regulation which clearly says mistake fares must be honored, I already was making solid plans on the basis of this. The rest of my family was adjusting obligations (my brother turned down a $1k contract based on these dates instead of the EI dates) and making plans.
Feb 18, 2015, 4:00 pm
#4429
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
As a customer, I have only dealt with United. Whether they use a third-party for a small component of their booking process, or for their entire booking process has no bearing on the fact that my contract is solely with United. If the third-party they hired provides a bad service to them, that is a separate dispute between United and the third-party they hired for any or every part of their booking process.
When you look at anything in the financial industry, there are significant amounts of money spent on Due Diligence and verifying everything through independent audits. In these cases, any third-party usually bears no liability themselves, as the financial firm is solely responsible for the entire due diligence process.
Simply, whether there was a third-party or not, United has the exclusive responsibility in making sure that everything that goes into and out of their system is correct. They are fully liable for their own mistakes and those of the third-parties they hire. They can try to sue their third-party, but it is likely their contract removes any liability from the third-party. My ticketed contract with United + DOT regulations which supercede details in the contract would leave United as fully liable for any mistakes made
When you look at anything in the financial industry, there are significant amounts of money spent on Due Diligence and verifying everything through independent audits. In these cases, any third-party usually bears no liability themselves, as the financial firm is solely responsible for the entire due diligence process.
Simply, whether there was a third-party or not, United has the exclusive responsibility in making sure that everything that goes into and out of their system is correct. They are fully liable for their own mistakes and those of the third-parties they hire. They can try to sue their third-party, but it is likely their contract removes any liability from the third-party. My ticketed contract with United + DOT regulations which supercede details in the contract would leave United as fully liable for any mistakes made
All large corporations rely on third parties. To give a United related example, there were recently announcements of large cutbacks of airport staff in favor of outsourced counter agents at many non-hub UA airports. That means the person who checks you in at the airport and tags your bags and collects your bag fees may not technically be a UA employee. However, that makes no difference with respect to the company's responsibility for his or her actions. If, for instance, the agent charges you a bag fee you were not required to pay, you can seek a refund from United, and United is not permitted to say that it bears no responsibility for the acts of the agent who was acting on its behalf.
Whoever was doing the currency conversion, United is responsible for it.
Do you believe that common contract law takes precedence over the DOT regulations on air travel?
I see United's only out as challenging the authority of DOT to impose these regulations, and the result of that could create a huge mess for consumers
I see United's only out as challenging the authority of DOT to impose these regulations, and the result of that could create a huge mess for consumers
The question is whether they apply to this circumstance. If they do, the DOT will so rule and United will be facing a big fine if they don't honor the tickets. If they don't, the ordinary rules of contract law (including mistake) will decide the case.
Last edited by dilanesp; Feb 18, 2015 at 4:08 pm
Feb 18, 2015, 4:06 pm
#4430
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: AA Plat, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 425
Remember, 399.88 is not a statute. It is a regulation. If there is no enabling statute from Congress speaking directly on the topic, then DOT really is kind of allowed to interpret it the way it wants. (And as we know, the writing is indeed on the wall there.) If there is a congressional act, aggrieved would-be flyers should rely on that, not the regulation.
The DOT will read and interpret their regulations in conjunction with contract law. I don't think it is a matter that one will supercede the other.
Feb 18, 2015, 4:08 pm
#4431
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Antonio
Programs: AS MVP
Posts: 2,276
False. Completely 100% false. UA and others allow 24 hours for cancellation or trips that originate in the U.S., because they are required to by law. None of these tickets originated in the U.S., and none of them offered any free cancellation. I booked one of these DKK tickets for the wrong date, cancelled within 15 minutes before it ticketed, and United sent me an email stating that I could use those funds for travel on United. No refund of any kind.
Feb 18, 2015, 4:16 pm
#4433
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: LAX
Programs: UA Silver, AA, WN, DL
Posts: 4,091
While I understand the POV of those who got in on the deal, I am pointing out what is likely UA's POV and why they decided not to honor this, unlike the prior mistake fares which they have.
Regardless of whether UA's system would (should) have caught this or be responsible for it, the fact they can point the finger at a 3rd party makes it that much easier for them to decline honoring the fare. From UA's POV, the mistake was from the 3rd party and it makes it justifiable to not honor it; perhaps the response would be different if it was entirely an internal mistake like last time, which I would then feel they should own it.
In addition, I'd like to present this scenario for those who claim UA is entirely responsible:
Say an online ticketing agency is the one that committed the currency error and sent the ticket request to UA. UA's website does not reflect the same error price. But bookings via the OTA went through and is automatically ticketed. Should UA honor that OTA's bookings?
Last edited by luv2ctheworld; Feb 18, 2015 at 4:30 pm
Feb 18, 2015, 4:16 pm
#4434
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: BWI<MCI< PHL<DEN<SCL<EZE<CHO<PHL<ABE
Programs: UA Silver / FA
Posts: 939
False. Completely 100% false. UA and others allow 24 hours for cancellation or trips that originate in the U.S., because they are required to by law. None of these tickets originated in the U.S., and none of them offered any free cancellation. I booked one of these DKK tickets for the wrong date, cancelled within 15 minutes before it ticketed, and United sent me an email stating that I could use those funds for travel on United. No refund of any kind.
United's 24-hour flexible booking policy allows the flexibility to make changes to your reservations within 24 hours of purchasing your ticket, without incurring change fees. This includes canceling your reservation and requesting a 100% refund of the ticket price.
I was curious if you were correct, but I don't see any conditions specifying ex-US only....
Feb 18, 2015, 4:17 pm
#4435
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2
No one is arguing the fact that ITA showed this fare for many airlines and some other airlines even showed it on their websites. United was just the only airline negligent enough to allow it to be booked/ticketed. Right?
Based on the above it can't possibly be unreasonable for one to assume that this was a fare war by the major airlines to gain the business of Danes living in the UK and not a mistake fare. United just had more people show up to its party than it wanted and so threw a hissy fit.
Based on the above it can't possibly be unreasonable for one to assume that this was a fare war by the major airlines to gain the business of Danes living in the UK and not a mistake fare. United just had more people show up to its party than it wanted and so threw a hissy fit.
Feb 18, 2015, 4:18 pm
#4436
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: AA Plat, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 425
False. Completely 100% false. UA and others allow 24 hours for cancellation or trips that originate in the U.S., because they are required to by law. None of these tickets originated in the U.S., and none of them offered any free cancellation. I booked one of these DKK tickets for the wrong date, cancelled within 15 minutes before it ticketed, and United sent me an email stating that I could use those funds for travel on United. No refund of any kind.
http://www.united.com/WEB/EN-US/apps...romoCode=A5753
Feb 18, 2015, 4:30 pm
#4437
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
I still don't see this as "abuse." No one who bought these tickets honestly thinks that the tickets are only worth $100. Otherwise, people wouldn't have jumped on buying them up like this.
Abuse is treating someone in a harmful, injurious way. How is it "abusing" the consumers to undo a clear mistake where everyone knew it was a mistake? How are we harmed or injured by not receiving a windfall?
Isn't that where the customer started though? I'm just having a very hard time seeing what the customers actually _lost_ here.
Abuse is treating someone in a harmful, injurious way. How is it "abusing" the consumers to undo a clear mistake where everyone knew it was a mistake? How are we harmed or injured by not receiving a windfall?
Isn't that where the customer started though? I'm just having a very hard time seeing what the customers actually _lost_ here.
Take for example, this comment from the Economist article linked to earlier:
I have been one of UA's best customers, with almost 3 million miles flown. I was booked business class on a trans-Pacific UA flight that was delayed by seven hours, so I requested another flight. UA said the only flight available only had economy class seats, but the economy class seat would cost me US$7000. I said that, if they did that to me, I would never fly UA again. The woman said she would check with her supervisor, then came back and said, because of the inconvenience, they would refund half the cost of my business class flight. So I accepted. After I arrived, I discovered they had charged my credit card the $7000 without a refund. They said their employee wasn't authorized to make the offer I had accepted. After weeks of pressure, they made a small refund but not the one they promised. My lawyer said I could easily win a case against UA, but the time required would make it a Pyrrhic victory. So I have been enjoying my flights on Cathay Pacific; so have the many people I ticket for conferences. UA seems to think that it comes out ahead when they screw their customers. Well, they're going to have to screw hundreds of other customers to make up the revenue they lose from me and my company. Doubtless they will make the effort.
So, no, I have absolutely no sympathy with the viewpoint that when a $7000 error goes in the customer's favor, UA is suddenly entitled to call 'mistake'. Especially when there is a clear regulation that UA is well aware of that says they can't.
I just don't see why it should work one way but not the other. That seems abusive to me.
Last edited by janetdoe; Feb 18, 2015 at 4:37 pm
Feb 18, 2015, 4:36 pm
#4438
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 54
From a legal perspective, that UA should honor the tickets of anyone who can show that they had a reason to pay in DKK unrelated to trying to capitalize on the mistake, who had a legitimate Denmark billing address, and who otherwise meets the DOT requirements (e.g., the 24 hour stopover / to and from the US), and that the DOT will fine UA for each such passenger who comes forward whose ticket is not honored by UA. However, travelers who had no reason for seeking to pay in DKK other than to capitalize on the mistake, or who indicated a Denmark billing address when they did not have one, are outside the scope of the protections of the DOT rule.
From a business perspective, if UA isn't going to honor the fares, it should at least make a gesture such as a big fat travel voucher to everyone who got their ticket voided. That would acknowledge that some people did make plans based on the availability of the mistake fare and got thrown into limbo by this, and that UA is indeed responsible for what happened. (Indeed, I really think UA has been stupid not to do this already.)
From a business perspective, if UA isn't going to honor the fares, it should at least make a gesture such as a big fat travel voucher to everyone who got their ticket voided. That would acknowledge that some people did make plans based on the availability of the mistake fare and got thrown into limbo by this, and that UA is indeed responsible for what happened. (Indeed, I really think UA has been stupid not to do this already.)
Feb 18, 2015, 4:37 pm
#4439
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,453
UA. I know you're monitoring this thread.
You're gambling a rather expensive game.
You know, you could still win it? Just call the DoT, and make an acceptable offer, like what was said in #4373?
The big majority would be happy about such an outcome, praise you as fair losers.. and WIN big time with advertisement (even though the win would have been bigger some days ago..)
But of course, you could always go all in.. risk to lose very BIG time, still make everyone unhappy on your behaviour, make you the laughstock of the whole industry (which I and almost everyone here hope you become for your behaviour) and have you pay BIG time..
Oh well, I just hope you make the right decision.. it might be soon too late, and too little...
You're gambling a rather expensive game.
You know, you could still win it? Just call the DoT, and make an acceptable offer, like what was said in #4373?
The big majority would be happy about such an outcome, praise you as fair losers.. and WIN big time with advertisement (even though the win would have been bigger some days ago..)
But of course, you could always go all in.. risk to lose very BIG time, still make everyone unhappy on your behaviour, make you the laughstock of the whole industry (which I and almost everyone here hope you become for your behaviour) and have you pay BIG time..
Oh well, I just hope you make the right decision.. it might be soon too late, and too little...
Feb 18, 2015, 4:38 pm
#4440
Join Date: May 2007
Location: YOW
Posts: 2,351
I wonder if this is because United was trying to make some extra money off of dynamic currency conversion. While the exchange rates are not as unfavourable as those typically offered with DCC there must be some reason that UA decided to offer the ability to choose the billing currency unlike other airlines.