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[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

Old Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!

DOT Investigation UpdatesNews Media Updates:

-------

According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.

However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule 399.88:
399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.

Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.


Tips for DOT Complaint:
  • File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
  • If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
  • If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
  • The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
  • When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.

Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.

Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.

United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.

At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.

Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL

Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.

Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?

Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a mistake.
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
  1. paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
  2. change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
  3. go to the webpage address you have just created

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015


Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X

Breathe deep.

Congrats on all who got in.

Now comes the fun part.

1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.

2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.

3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.

4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.

5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.

6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.

7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.


7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.

8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active


Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15

http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information

Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.

"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.

In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
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[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

Old Feb 15, 2015, 3:42 am
  #3856  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Originally Posted by dera
Problem is, DOT won't touch your case unless you have atleast a 24hr connection in the US on your trip.
I have a 3 day connection in EWR and then another 7 day connection in HNL. @:-)
Shanye2233 is offline  
Old Feb 15, 2015, 3:43 am
  #3857  
 
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Originally Posted by dera
Problem is, DOT won't touch your case unless you have atleast a 24hr connection in the US on your trip.
Will a domestic flight within the US also give you DOT protection?
YuropFlyer is offline  
Old Feb 15, 2015, 4:00 am
  #3858  
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Tickets sold by US airlines are subject to US legal jurisdiction even when the trip is for points of travel wholly beyond the US. For example, if you are blacklisted by the US Government in some particular ways, UA isn't allowed to transport you; they may not even legally sell you a ticket, in some cases, if they know you are on one of those specific USG blacklists -- even when the flight is say intra-Asia.
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 4:05 am
  #3859  
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In the matter of claims under EC261/2004 and claims via DOT, not all such ways to have both claims made eat into restitution provided by another. I won't go into more details on this point; in other words, if you want more details on how that has worked before, don't ask me if you really care about knowing how.
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 4:18 am
  #3860  
 
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Originally Posted by LHSEN
Similar observation here. EU laws are generally exercised based on common sense and good faith whereas I think US is more on technicality, although of course there are exceptions (e.g. A while back the German tax authority purchased and obtained illegally bank details from someone working in a bank in Switzerland and used as evidents to locate and prosecute tax evasion ... that is bad faith to me).

My philosophy here is, may be it is not meant to be to get these tickets ... There's not much lost for people here, as compared to United who is dealing with all these reputational damages, legal implications not only in the US but potentially whistleblown itself to EU investigation ...

I'm not sure if United actually understand what battles they are getting themselves into ...
^

Furthermore, guys, is it so complicated to avoid to fight one another and simply discuss in the merit of the matter?
Of course here there are some people who tend to incite others in a barren discussion, and yes, maybe some "strange and quite new users", but fighting one another, at the moment means to loosing sight of the real matter...and making, eventually, the provokers game!
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 4:24 am
  #3861  
 
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Originally Posted by EZEDoesIt
You've mentioned this multiple times, but the fact is that post codes in DK are four digits, whereas in the US they are five, so for the match to work for a US CC it's obvious that a "false" DK address was entered.
I entered my UK post code, which is a six digit combination of letters and numbers.
SCSA is offline  
Old Feb 15, 2015, 4:25 am
  #3862  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: MUC
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by mster
Planning to attempt checkin today after receiving the expected "We are unable to complete the check-in process at this time. Please proceed to the airport for assistance." from the UA site.

Any suggestions for documentation to request assuming that I'm not able to board?
Several pages ago, there were reports from people who tried to check in, were sent to some customer care desk and got a printout of their reservation showing the voided coupons.
I have no idea how that might help for a reinstate of the ticket....

But would be interesting to get your feedback if you are making your way to LHR.
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 4:44 am
  #3863  
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Originally Posted by SCSA
I entered my UK post code, which is a six digit combination of letters and numbers.
And some are 7-digit, to add an extra level of confusion.
I used to live in "AB12 3CD"
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 5:09 am
  #3864  
 
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Dont we just love people like Dilanesp

He says he is a long time lurker. However, after a long term hiatus he joins FT in Feb, and only to post on this NCL-EWR thread. All his posts are confined to this thread.

Thats beautiful!

Originally Posted by dilanesp
More conspiracy paranoia. Not only do I have no relationship with United and no desire to extract information, as far as I know nobody has told me any information other than perhaps that they bought one of these tickets. If I'm supposed to be here extracting information (for what purpose? United already knows who bought these tickets and what their position is), I'm doing a really bad job of it.

Seriously, a few of you are REALLY overly emotionally invested in this. Nobody on my side of the debate is accusing you of being horrible people. The most that is being said is that some of your explanations and arguments are not credible. And much of what is being said isn't even that-- it's just commentary on the chances that certain arguments will be accepted by the DOT and EU regulators or by a court.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the debate are accusations of trolling, conspiring with United Airlines, fishing for information, personal attacks, defamation, etc. My side of this debate is hinged-- some people on the other side of the debate are unhinged.

I would strongly suggest that people who bought these tickets and are being ultra-defensive about their behavior take a deep breath. I certainly don't think you are bad people-- I just don't think you have really good arguments. I still hope United reverses itself and lets you fly; I just don't think that the legal arguments as to why they HAVE to are very convincing.
Culture Guru is offline  
Old Feb 15, 2015, 6:16 am
  #3865  
 
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Originally Posted by T8191
And some are 7-digit, to add an extra level of confusion.
I used to live in "AB12 3CD"
Exactly - there are quite a few of us who live in WC or EC.
mechteach is offline  
Old Feb 15, 2015, 6:39 am
  #3866  
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We do not use postal codes in Colombia. They exist but none of us know what our code is and mine certainly is not on my billing address.

I suspect my credit card is validated on card number + expiry date + CVV + does he have any money?

Whenever a postal or zip code is a mandatory field I just make one up. I also make lots of purchases on US and UK sites where it is not possible to change the country.
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 6:40 am
  #3867  
 
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Originally Posted by maclover
I really can't stand this behaviour anymore and I urge moderators to step in.
Everyone who thinks UA shouldn't honor these ticket is being repeatedly accused of being:
- UA employee
- on UA payroll
- a troll
- saying just crap

and so on.

FT has always been a place where to discuss. Seems few people want it to be the place where they can only defend their position without giving anyone else the opportunity to express own point of view.
Why don't you stop repeating yourself? You made your point, which you are entitled to. Saying it 2-3 time is, like you said, "just crap". Add something new to the conversation.
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 6:53 am
  #3868  
 
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I don't know how many of you have ever tried buying gasoline in the USA at the pump with a European or Mexican credit card?

Most pay at the pump terminals ask for your 5 digit billing zip code. If you put in a random number it works just fine.

So much for the credit card company using the zip code to validate.

For those who believe UA should be off the hook, where do the regs say that mistake fares are allowed to be cancelled?
Deltahater is offline  
Old Feb 15, 2015, 6:55 am
  #3869  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by sleeplessinNL
Dont we just love people like Dilanesp

He says he is a long time lurker. However, after a long term hiatus he joins FT in Feb, and only to post on this NCL-EWR thread. All his posts are confined to this thread.

Thats beautiful!
+1 he is misrepresenting himself.
eloraculo is offline  
Old Feb 15, 2015, 7:27 am
  #3870  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
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The Charges fell off my CC
pacys95 is offline  

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