Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!
DOT Investigation Updates
-------
According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.
However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Tips for DOT Complaint:
Template For Complaint:
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015
Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information
Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.
"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.
In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!
DOT Investigation Updates
- 02/23/15: DOT says UA does not have to honor the fare; link to DOT's full explanation (pdf)
- 02/12/15: DOT Statement
- 02/12/15: fox news mentions DOT investigation and mention update by 5:00 pm ET -- posted by xSTRIKEx6864
- 02/12/15: Fox news clip -- posted by FlyingLasse
- 02/12/15: Another clip on fox news interviewing the pointsguy -- posted by FlyingLasse
- 02/12/15: Person in charge at the dot is Alex Taday (don't bombard him with email - or we will all regret it) -- posted by sonofzeus
- 02/12/15: Fox News update: UA honoring fares will depends on complaints made at the DOT.... -- posted by synd
-------
According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Tips for DOT Complaint:
- File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
- If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
- If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
- The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
- When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.
Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.
Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.
United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.
At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.
Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL
Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.
Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.
United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.
At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.
Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL
Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.
Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
- paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
- change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
- go to the webpage address you have just created
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X
Breathe deep.
Congrats on all who got in.
Now comes the fun part.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
R E L A X
Breathe deep.
Congrats on all who got in.
Now comes the fun part.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information
Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.
"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.
In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link
Feb 11, 2015, 8:50 pm
#2146
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: MCO
Programs: AA EXP, United PS, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Titanium, Wyndham Gold, Club Carlson Gold, Amtrak
Posts: 1,254
I did. I will call the DOT tomorrow just to make sure they have it. Got the submission success notice on the website.
Feb 11, 2015, 8:52 pm
#2149
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: AA Exec Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 5,538
Feb 11, 2015, 8:53 pm
#2150
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 33
Filed DOT for two tickets of a reservation and received a confirmation e-mail for each ticket. Also just got the confirmation e-mail. Does this mean that the reservation is completely gone or can it be reinstated?
Also my flights LHR-ZRH-JNB with LX and JNB-FRA-LHR with LH has been deleted.
Swiss.com shows:
Your reservation XXXXXX has been deleted. (20503)
Lufthansa.com shows:
We are unable to find this confirmation number. Please validate your entry and try again or contact us for further information. (8104)
I have everything printed out in case the EU 241 regulation becomes interesting.
Also my flights LHR-ZRH-JNB with LX and JNB-FRA-LHR with LH has been deleted.
Swiss.com shows:
Your reservation XXXXXX has been deleted. (20503)
Lufthansa.com shows:
We are unable to find this confirmation number. Please validate your entry and try again or contact us for further information. (8104)
I have everything printed out in case the EU 241 regulation becomes interesting.
Last edited by constituo; Feb 11, 2015 at 9:01 pm
Feb 11, 2015, 8:58 pm
#2153
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,600
Flyertalk loses its soul when members pout about these mistake fares.
This forum should not be about taking advantage if mistake fares. We are more savy and more mature than that. FT, ideally, is about working with the airlines, not against them.
I know I am spitting into the wind when I write these posts.
We all want a good deal. But to cry foul when we knowingly buy a mistake fare is bad form.
This forum should not be about taking advantage if mistake fares. We are more savy and more mature than that. FT, ideally, is about working with the airlines, not against them.
I know I am spitting into the wind when I write these posts.
We all want a good deal. But to cry foul when we knowingly buy a mistake fare is bad form.
He screwed me over big time when he took away my 'lifetime' benefits. Anything I can do to screw him back I am happy to do.
I have a pdf of my ticketed fare. Where do I file my DOT complaint?
Feb 11, 2015, 8:59 pm
#2154
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: EuroBonus Diamond (SK); Hilton Diamond + few others
Posts: 172
I made a booking, which have been cancelled. However, being Danish, I paid with a credit card issued in Denmark with a Danish billing address. Made no tricks, just went through the ordinary booking proces.
I'm wondering how they will respond to that. Anything I could do?
I'm wondering how they will respond to that. Anything I could do?
Feb 11, 2015, 8:59 pm
#2155
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: BTS
Posts: 611
I made a booking, which have been cancelled. However, being Danish, I paid with a credit card issued in Denmark with a Danish billing address. Made no tricks, just went through the ordinary booking proces.
I'm wondering how they will respond to that. Anything I could do?
I'm wondering how they will respond to that. Anything I could do?
Feb 11, 2015, 9:05 pm
#2156
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
While I generally agree with this, I hate Smisek. And if my DOT complaint hurts him or, at a minimum, complicates his lawyerly ways in the least, then GOOD.
He screwed me over big time when he took away my 'lifetime' benefits. Anything I can do to screw him back I am happy to do.
I have a pdf of my ticketed fare. Where do I file my DOT complaint?
He screwed me over big time when he took away my 'lifetime' benefits. Anything I can do to screw him back I am happy to do.
I have a pdf of my ticketed fare. Where do I file my DOT complaint?
Feb 11, 2015, 9:05 pm
#2157
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1.5 Million Mile flyer, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Gold, Hertz 5* and PC since 1985
Posts: 5,611
Flyertalk loses its soul when members pout about these mistake fares.
This forum should not be about taking advantage if mistake fares. We are more savy and more mature than that. FT, ideally, is about working with the airlines, not against them.
I know I am spitting into the wind when I write these posts.
We all want a good deal. But to cry foul when we knowingly buy a mistake fare is bad form.
This forum should not be about taking advantage if mistake fares. We are more savy and more mature than that. FT, ideally, is about working with the airlines, not against them.
I know I am spitting into the wind when I write these posts.
We all want a good deal. But to cry foul when we knowingly buy a mistake fare is bad form.
I do like watching people in these situations. Very entertaining
Thanks Z
Feb 11, 2015, 9:06 pm
#2158
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,265
I would 100% agree with you under most circumstances for most businesses. But airlines treat customers like this every day, and I've been taken advantage of before (in my opinion) when I transposed a digit on a date and the airline refused to make a change, so I don't feel bad when I take advantage of their mistakes.
If airlines treated me well enough to engender loyalty, I'd never book a mistake fare. When St Regis DC was pricing for ~$30/nt last year, I didn't book it because SPG treats me very very well, and they've actually gone to bat for me before on a non refundable reservation I made a mistake on (meant to book refundable).
Respectful behavior is a two way street... United can't expect to get it when they so obviously refuse to give it.
ETA: Case in point! I just got a cancellation notice from UA via email and not even a simple apology was offered for inconvenience.
Extremely irrelevant. If I order a chicken dish at a restaurant and it tastes foul, I don't care whether it's the farmers fault, the wholesalers fault or the restaurant's fault. My only relationship is with the restaurant and they served me a bad dish.
If airlines treated me well enough to engender loyalty, I'd never book a mistake fare. When St Regis DC was pricing for ~$30/nt last year, I didn't book it because SPG treats me very very well, and they've actually gone to bat for me before on a non refundable reservation I made a mistake on (meant to book refundable).
Respectful behavior is a two way street... United can't expect to get it when they so obviously refuse to give it.
ETA: Case in point! I just got a cancellation notice from UA via email and not even a simple apology was offered for inconvenience.
Extremely irrelevant. If I order a chicken dish at a restaurant and it tastes foul, I don't care whether it's the farmers fault, the wholesalers fault or the restaurant's fault. My only relationship is with the restaurant and they served me a bad dish.
^ Couldn't agree more! Everybody makes mistakes but it's how one deals with it and is willing to take responsability for it. From a PR/customer point of view, UA is screwing up and pretty bad.
Feb 11, 2015, 9:07 pm
#2159
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
I made a booking, which have been cancelled. However, being Danish, I paid with a credit card issued in Denmark with a Danish billing address. Made no tricks, just went through the ordinary booking proces.
I'm wondering how they will respond to that. Anything I could do?
I'm wondering how they will respond to that. Anything I could do?