Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Mileage Run Deals > Mileage Run Discussion
Reload this Page >

[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

Community
Wiki Posts
Search
Old Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!

DOT Investigation UpdatesNews Media Updates:

-------

According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.

However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.

Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.


Tips for DOT Complaint:
  • File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
  • If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
  • If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
  • The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
  • When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.

Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.

Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.

United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.

At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.

Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL

Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.

Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?

Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
  1. paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
  2. change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
  3. go to the webpage address you have just created

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015


Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X

Breathe deep.

Congrats on all who got in.

Now comes the fun part.

1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.

2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.

3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.

4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.

5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.

6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.

7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.


7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.

8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active


Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15

http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information

Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.

"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.

In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
Print Wikipost

[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:07 pm
  #1936  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, WoH Globalist
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by kyushuman
IIRC from a KE mistake a few years ago, the DOT fine is US$27,500 per incident. If DOT rules against UA, that's a looooot of money. UA and their lawyers know this, and they're cancelling anyway.
Is this entire saga one "incident" or is each cancelled ticket considered a separate "incident"?

Sorry if this is a dumb question ...
Anegada is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:08 pm
  #1937  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: DL DM, UA 1K, AA EXP, US G, SPG P, HH D, MR G, NEXUS/GE, DL AMEX Reserve
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by Anegada
Is this entire saga one "incident" or is each cancelled ticket considered a separate "incident"?

Sorry if this is a dumb question ...
Each ticket cancelled is an incident. They would be grossed up into a massive fine.
mbwmbw is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:08 pm
  #1938  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: ECP
Programs: DL Diamond
Posts: 1,658
Originally Posted by kyushuman
IIRC from a KE mistake a few years ago, the DOT fine is US$27,500 per incident. If DOT rules against UA, that's a looooot of money. UA and their lawyers know this, and they're cancelling anyway.
Except it costs them nothing to try and cancel the tickets and see who will go away quietly (likely most non-FTers). If they can get out of 90% of the tickets and only have to decide about 10%, they just saved themselves a LOT of money.

It costs them nothing to deal with DOT complaints--they already have a staff in place.
DC777Fan is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:08 pm
  #1939  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 2
e-ticket #

Does it matter that I had an e-ticket # earlier today? My segments are no longer shown when I view reservation using my confirmation #.

United is going to have to do something.
SusanHancock is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:08 pm
  #1940  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: BTS
Posts: 611
Originally Posted by iahphx
OK, as a retired lawyer, industry analyst and frequent flyer, here's my take on this.

Under the plain language of the DOT's "interpretation," UA MUST honor these tickets. The "interpretation" clearly states that there's no excuse for mistake pricing. If you have confirmation (aka, you've printed out a copy of your reservation with ticket numbers), UA is required to honor the rate.

But, remember, this is only an interpretation of a regulation -- it is not actually LAW (passed by Congress and signed by the President). Somebody with more recent regulatory experience should chime in, but my recollection is that regulations are only PRESUMED to be the law, but can be over-ruled by the courts. I would think an "interpretation" of a regulation would carry even less weight. True?

In this case -- and sorry my fellow flyertalkers hoping for a cheapo flight -- it's pretty clear that the DOT reg and interpretation are dumb. It does follow generally accepted consumer law. Companies are ROUTINELY allowed to disavow mistake internet pricing. There is no good reason why an airline should be held to a higher standard. All that should be required is reasonable notice from the airline that a mistake has occurred. Perhaps the airline should have 3 to 7 days to notify the consumer (less if travel is more immediate).

So how does the law get changed? Perhaps by a lawsuit related to this incident? Equity clearly favors the airline, not the consumer here. The old saw that "bad facts make bad law" would seem to apply.

FWIW, I will file my own complaint to protect my rights. If the Feds are going to be dumb and make UA honor this fare, I want my (nearly) free biz class trip, too!
Well, isn't the main difference here in the type of the product you pay for. With airline tickets if I purchase a ticket for 320 days in advance, what is then stopping the airline from cancelling my ticket after 300 days when it determines I should pay more for those tickets or if I don't, someone else will?

p.s. Yes 320 / 300 days would be covered by your 3-7 days suggestion, the same could apply to purchasing tickets for travel in 5 days, only to have the airline cancel them 2 days before travel because it seems a lot of people are looking at that flight, or the flight is already overbooked!
scibuff is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:08 pm
  #1941  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Trenton, NJ (PHL, EWR)
Programs: A3 Gold, BA Bronze
Posts: 1,633
For other EU citizens: How are you going about filing any complaints regarding the pricing discrimination, basically being denied the Danish price by nature of not being in Denmark? I know it had been mentioned before, but as a dual US national living in the US my complaints are typically US based. And I'll be filing two DOT complaints.
FlyIgglesFly is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:09 pm
  #1942  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: DL DM, UA 1K, AA EXP, US G, SPG P, HH D, MR G, NEXUS/GE, DL AMEX Reserve
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by SusanHancock
Does it matter that I had an e-ticket # earlier today? My segments are no longer shown when I view reservation using my confirmation #.

United is going to have to do something.
Welcome to FT longtime lurker. Read the Wiki above and file a complaint.
mbwmbw is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:10 pm
  #1943  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 2
Have people gotten emails from United saying the flights are cancelled? It would be nice if they emailed a notification.
SusanHancock is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:10 pm
  #1944  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 227
From the template: Should I mention #3 as my cc has not been charged yet resp. will not be charged at all?
"Facts:
1. xxx
2. xxx
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged."
aldemar is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:10 pm
  #1945  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,265
I can not keep up with the speed of this fast going thread, but one of my reservations shows as

! Your itinerary cannot be retrieved, since there are no flight segments. Only itineraries with flight segments can be added to your Profile. If you require assistance, please contact United Reservations.

Any one else? My other reservation shows exactly as many others "your reservation has been cancelled".

I also notice that everybody is turning to DoT but I will certainly file a EU complaint. And Jeff can expect a parliamentary question about this one!
Epicura is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:12 pm
  #1946  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: DL DM, UA 1K, AA EXP, US G, SPG P, HH D, MR G, NEXUS/GE, DL AMEX Reserve
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by SusanHancock
Have people gotten emails from United saying the flights are cancelled? It would be nice if they emailed a notification.
No. They will not be sending cancellation emails.

Originally Posted by aldemar
From the template: Should I mention #3 as my cc has not been charged yet resp. will not be charged at all?
"Facts:
1. xxx
2. xxx
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged."
Was your CC authorized? They wouldn't have given you a ticket if it wasn't... So I'd include it.
mbwmbw is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:15 pm
  #1947  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 801
Originally Posted by iahphx
OK, as a retired lawyer, industry analyst and frequent flyer, here's my take on this.

Under the plain language of the DOT's "interpretation," UA MUST honor these tickets. The "interpretation" clearly states that there's no excuse for mistake pricing. If you have confirmation (aka, you've printed out a copy of your reservation with ticket numbers), UA is required to honor the rate.

But, remember, this is only an interpretation of a regulation -- it is not actually LAW (passed by Congress and signed by the President). Somebody with more recent regulatory experience should chime in, but my recollection is that regulations are only PRESUMED to be the law, but can be over-ruled by the courts. I would think an "interpretation" of a regulation would carry even less weight. True?

In this case -- and sorry my fellow flyertalkers hoping for a cheapo flight -- it's pretty clear that the DOT reg and interpretation are dumb. It does follow generally accepted consumer law. Companies are ROUTINELY allowed to disavow mistake internet pricing. There is no good reason why an airline should be held to a higher standard. All that should be required is reasonable notice from the airline that a mistake has occurred. Perhaps the airline should have 3 to 7 days to notify the consumer (less if travel is more immediate).

So how does the law get changed? Perhaps by a lawsuit related to this incident? Equity clearly favors the airline, not the consumer here. The old saw that "bad facts make bad law" would seem to apply.

FWIW, I will file my own complaint to protect my rights. If the Feds are going to be dumb and make UA honor this fare, I want my (nearly) free biz class trip, too!
I continually see this bandied about and I've yet to see a source for it. In fact, the FAQ's to the Reg seem to militate towards a conclusion that ticket numbers are NOT necessary.
thexfactor is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:15 pm
  #1948  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: Flying Blue Gold, Air Berlin Gold, Etihad Silver (bad move)
Posts: 420
Originally Posted by kinchai
Guys

DOT complain- who is eligible? can Europeans with non-US address do that too?
(I see the form asking for states and zip codes)

Cheers.
I would fill out the DOT form first of all, it won't take long. But if you're in the EU it is worth checking with your local European Consumer Advice Centre.
Irelandflyer is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:15 pm
  #1949  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,384
Originally Posted by Epicura
I can not keep up with the speed of this fast going thread, but one of my reservations shows as

! Your itinerary cannot be retrieved, since there are no flight segments. Only itineraries with flight segments can be added to your Profile. If you require assistance, please contact United Reservations.

Any one else? My other reservation shows exactly as many others "your reservation has been cancelled".

I also notice that everybody is turning to DoT but I will certainly file a EU complaint. And Jeff can expect a parliamentary question about this one!
Minitrue Recdep is at work. Hope you printed out a copy (and saved a PDF)...
eponymous_coward is online now  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 6:15 pm
  #1950  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: QF LTG
Posts: 1,200
Both my bookings (total 4 tickets) have been canceled. DoT complaint will be filed tonight and I have briefed my lawyer about the situation.
PbodyPhoto is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.