Apr 4, 2014, 10:50 am
Last edit by: cesco.g
There are two categories of US cities involved, DL hubs and other, generally secondary, airports.
From some DL Hubs, UA P fares are valid to a much wider range of cities in Europe:
SLC/MSP/DTW/ATL/CVG/MEM-AMS/MXP/FCO/CDG/MLA/VCE/TRN/FLR/NAP/PMO/CTA/BUD/PRG/CPH/IST/WAW/ARN/OSL/KRK/PRG/TLL/RIX/etc
(but not JFK nor LAX?)
Other airports are valid to a smaller set of cities in Europe:
BOS/SJC/SMF/MOD/BWI/BUR/ONT/SNA/PSP/HNL/SEA/PDX/AUS/PIT/TUS/TPA/ALB/etc/etc-AMS/MXP/FCO/CDG/MLA/VCE/TRN/FLR/NAP/PMO/CTA/etc
Most UA hubs don't have the fare filed (not SFO for sure), but apparently EWR has at least EWR-VCE/NCE (but not EWR-MXP/PMO/FCO/CDG)
Some destinations in Europe have a slightly higher base fare:
MRS/LYS
(please add more cities to either origin or destination side that are valid)
Be careful in your airline selection - there are PQM/RDM implications to this. For example, for the UA program, UA P earns 150% PQM/RDM, LH P earns 100% PQM/RDM, and it appears that OS P earns nothing.
Similarly it looks like UA P class credited to Aegean (A3) earns nothing. Visit this United webpage then click on the Star Alliance partner to determine mileage earnings.
From some DL Hubs, UA P fares are valid to a much wider range of cities in Europe:
SLC/MSP/DTW/ATL/CVG/MEM-AMS/MXP/FCO/CDG/MLA/VCE/TRN/FLR/NAP/PMO/CTA/BUD/PRG/CPH/IST/WAW/ARN/OSL/KRK/PRG/TLL/RIX/etc
(but not JFK nor LAX?)
Other airports are valid to a smaller set of cities in Europe:
BOS/SJC/SMF/MOD/BWI/BUR/ONT/SNA/PSP/HNL/SEA/PDX/AUS/PIT/TUS/TPA/ALB/etc/etc-AMS/MXP/FCO/CDG/MLA/VCE/TRN/FLR/NAP/PMO/CTA/etc
Most UA hubs don't have the fare filed (not SFO for sure), but apparently EWR has at least EWR-VCE/NCE (but not EWR-MXP/PMO/FCO/CDG)
Some destinations in Europe have a slightly higher base fare:
MRS/LYS
(please add more cities to either origin or destination side that are valid)
Be careful in your airline selection - there are PQM/RDM implications to this. For example, for the UA program, UA P earns 150% PQM/RDM, LH P earns 100% PQM/RDM, and it appears that OS P earns nothing.
Similarly it looks like UA P class credited to Aegean (A3) earns nothing. Visit this United webpage then click on the Star Alliance partner to determine mileage earnings.
[FARE GONE] Lots of UA ATL-AMS (and other cities) Z fares; less than $2k for July
Apr 2, 2014, 7:19 pm
#258
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,067
The fare could have been $1,400 or $400, it's all the same. Only difference is at $400, I would have bought more of them.
Delta honored their tickets from late last year (domestic F as low as $17 in some cases).
But if you're thinking this didn't cost UA anything, you're wrong. These seats sold for less than seats in Y, and in fact came up in any generic search for economy seats. You didn't have to be looking for them to find them. So UA lost about $200 on each seat for that reason alone. And then missed opportunity costs. If those seats were sold to an upgrader using miles, you've got the missing cost of 20,000 miles, plus a copay averaging $500, each way. So whatever the value of 40,000 plus $1000. And of course the obvious, the $1500 difference between the mistake fare and the normal cheapest price for a C TATL r/t.
The hard costs of providing that seat are irrelevant. They don't go empty in July, and the extra margin UA makes on a C seat offsets a lot of losses elsewhere.
The hard costs of providing that seat are irrelevant. They don't go empty in July, and the extra margin UA makes on a C seat offsets a lot of losses elsewhere.
But what this fare did give UA was an excuse for revenue underperformance for the summer. They'd probably under-shoot either way (as they have for the past several quarters), but now they have something they can blame.
I wonder if there are any *A repercussions. Since UA is responsible for the ex-USA TATL fares, it was clearly their mistake (if it was a mistake). This impacts not just UA's revenue, but all of the JV partners' revenue, so I wonder if there could be any liability for UA on that level as well.
Apr 2, 2014, 7:58 pm
#259
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,960
I wonder how many were sold this morning. I'll say 1,000, but I have no real idea. It's not like this thing went viral across the internet. Did it cost UA money? Probably. But nobody's going to lose their job over selling $1500+ airline seats. I know there's tons of enthusiasm on this board to sit up front, but it's still $1500, and I'm not sure how many seats they sell for 2x that in summer.
Apr 2, 2014, 8:14 pm
#260
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SEA
Programs: UA 1K, AS MVPG, DL GM, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,266
I wonder if there are any *A repercussions. Since UA is responsible for the ex-USA TATL fares, it was clearly their mistake (if it was a mistake). This impacts not just UA's revenue, but all of the JV partners' revenue, so I wonder if there could be any liability for UA on that level as well.
Apr 2, 2014, 8:33 pm
#261
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Programs: UA Plat (1mm), Marriott Titanium, HH Gold, Hertz Pres
Posts: 430
Apr 2, 2014, 9:08 pm
#262
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: DL plat
Posts: 316
Is it possible to change the dates on a farelock itin? I already had to cancel a different itin because the 24 hour period was about to expire and the agent could not replicate the same fare on different dates. All original fare rules were still obeyed, just the BF of the P fare was about $2k higher on all the new dates.
Few things hurt more than cancelling multiple ticketed $1450 P fares EWR-VCE in late August
Few things hurt more than cancelling multiple ticketed $1450 P fares EWR-VCE in late August
Apr 2, 2014, 9:11 pm
#263
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP, IHG Diamond, IC Amb
Posts: 5,508
I wonder how many were sold this morning. I'll say 1,000, but I have no real idea. It's not like this thing went viral across the internet. Did it cost UA money? Probably. But nobody's going to lose their job over selling $1500+ airline seats. I know there's tons of enthusiasm on this board to sit up front, but it's still $1500, and I'm not sure how many seats they sell for 2x that in summer.
It isn't like they are actually going to lose "real" money on this.
Apr 2, 2014, 9:24 pm
#264
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: GRR, USA
Posts: 3,298
Yep, just changed the date of the last leg on a SAN-MXP flight, add collect was $8. Didn't bother to ask, why, just pushed thru as my original $ 500 base fare stayed whole. Entire trip is now $1556, incl some 3 intra-EU connections on LH business class.
Thanks to "LufthansaFlyer" for posting over at the M&M forum ^, which I came across purely coincidental, while looking for LH strike news.
Lucked out this time!
Thanks to "LufthansaFlyer" for posting over at the M&M forum ^, which I came across purely coincidental, while looking for LH strike news.
Lucked out this time!
Apr 2, 2014, 10:23 pm
#265
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: GRR, USA
Posts: 3,298
I don't think this was a mistake fare. It seemed to be much more of an overreaction of sorts because DL yesterday reduced the summer sale fares by like $1000+ in Germany and UAs hubs to a number of places. The only thing is that DL had a 10 day minimum stay on their low sale fares and UA just has a Saturday stay so if someone leaves the US on Friday or Saturday, they could come back Sunday on UA so the impact will be much larger than to DL and I'm sure they sold a lot more than DL. DL wasn't selling anything under $2000ai after about 5-6pm ET whereas UA had the fares valid all day and into this morning. Not sure what Smisek and UA are doing these days. Selling business class for less than coach class in peak season doesn't sound too smart but is great for the consumer
Apr 2, 2014, 10:56 pm
#266
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SRQ
Posts: 2,168
I had seen some talk on FT on the DL forum about some lower summer fares, but wasn't seeing much on DL later last night.
Well check Expedia of all places and saw Dtw-NCE in July for $ 1521.... Snagged 2 ea in P class - old style C seats on a 346.... Rather happy thanks?
Well check Expedia of all places and saw Dtw-NCE in July for $ 1521.... Snagged 2 ea in P class - old style C seats on a 346.... Rather happy thanks?
Apr 2, 2014, 11:45 pm
#267
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,688
I am a firm believer that some of these errors are not errors and I am serious. The airlines can not have an official sale as regular customers would demand to repriced on more expensive tickets. In particular a few summers ago during the great recession in the USA a major carrier had extremely low biz class fares for days but no anouncement
Apr 3, 2014, 1:42 am
#268
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,303
Huge thanks to the OP! My RT SJC-IAH-MUC-FCO tkt is pricing out at just over $7k this morning! Booking hotels now! My sis & hubby booked 3 week trip RNO-SFO-FRA-FCO & are now planning to take a med cruise + visiting many places in Italy. My other family & friends who didn't book, are today wondering why they didn't jump on this fantastic deal and join us!
Lucky's blog tipped me off to this (he hat tipped Biggles209). So gasp, I'm one of the ones who got it from someone who blogged it with details. Huge thanks to everyone else who shared details, too.