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[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!

Old Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: fti
People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.

The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.

Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.

Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.


CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.

Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.

If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.

To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.

To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.

The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:


Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.

Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612

Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612

Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt

Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt

Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1

Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1

Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC

Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC

Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)

Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88

Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1

Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla

Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1

Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1

Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm

Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2

Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm

Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2

Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl

Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz

14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG

19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG

Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl

Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz



CMB-DFW EY F

FARE IS GONE

FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)

WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!

ex-CMB
Feb

Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia

Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21

May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

Jun
12 - lelee

Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas

Sep

Oct

Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4

Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

ex-AUH
Jan

Feb

Mar

Apr
27 - RICHKLHS

May


Jun
29 - yerffej201

Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao

Aug

Sep

Oct

Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)

Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff

ex-DFW
Jan

Feb

Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1

Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir

May

Jun

Jul

Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1

Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)


Oct

Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris

Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
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[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!

Old May 31, 2014, 5:41 pm
  #10486  
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Originally Posted by largeeyes
Is a $200 F class ticket RGN - Canada really what you want in your holster going to battle with Swiss at the CTA? I think the point was that this case wasn't exactly the strongest and the unintended consequences remain unclear.
I think that's the main worry... how will airlines use this decision to influence potential future DOT actions against mistake fares?

Will they try and argue that mistakes, originating in foreign countries, where they allege passengers are 'predatory' or 'acting unfairly' should somehow be excluded from the mistake fare provisions? Could DOT agree with the airlines that protection should not be offered in those cases?
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Old May 31, 2014, 6:11 pm
  #10487  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
Perhaps it is partly explained that in many parts of the world tickets come with massive fuel surcharges that are usually included in the base fare in the USA.

While component pricing has been stamped out in plenty of countries, the fuel surcharges still appear on our tickets... and can be half (or more) of the actual 'fare'.

Qantas for example might charge $400 fuel component on an $800 fare.

CX fares (if booking via their portals in Thailand or HKG just as an example) can sometimes double the advertised fare on the booking page by the time extras are added.
only on fanfares for CX exHK would YQ be even close to doubling the price of the ticket (i.e. MNL for 490 RT + 120 HK tax + 426 YQ)
As for QF the YQ is something like 600 USD for USA-Australia.
And exUSA the fares actually do not include YQ (take a look at the fare structure of any recent ticket purchase that is not within N America.)
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Old May 31, 2014, 6:51 pm
  #10488  
 
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
So if we see a $1000 fare, it would not necessarily be unreasonable for many to appreciate the base fare could be low... whereas in the USA you might think you are paying close to $1000 (less actual taxes).
And what difference does it make? Money goes to the same pocket, just feeding the propaganda.
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Old May 31, 2014, 7:38 pm
  #10489  
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Originally Posted by Lack
And what difference does it make? Money goes to the same pocket, just feeding the propaganda.
It was just an observation.

As was pointed out above, why would you take a $100 fare to the CTA to force the issue of a mistake fare?

A US or Canadian citizen might see it as a $600 fare (what they paid), others might see it closer to a $100 fare (plus fuel fines). The latter might look more of a mistake.
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Old May 31, 2014, 8:44 pm
  #10490  
 
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
It was just an observation.

As was pointed out above, why would you take a $100 fare to the CTA to force the issue of a mistake fare?

A US or Canadian citizen might see it as a $600 fare (what they paid), others might see it closer to a $100 fare (plus fuel fines). The latter might look more of a mistake.
None of the popular booking channels used to book this fare displayed anything other than the all in price, so your hypothetical is fairly irrelevant.
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Old May 31, 2014, 9:09 pm
  #10491  
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Originally Posted by BrewerSEA
None of the popular booking channels used to book this fare displayed anything other than the all in price...
which proves my point

you may not even consider that the bulk of the fare is fuel fines. People from other countries might think fuel is a significant part of an advertised fare.

Anyways - the CTA has considered the arguments put forward by many passengers around whether they thought it was a valid fare or a mistake. And so far the CTA has found passengers ought to have known it was a mistake.
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Old May 31, 2014, 9:53 pm
  #10492  
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Originally Posted by BrewerSEA
None of the popular booking channels used to book this fare displayed anything other than the all in price, so your hypothetical is fairly irrelevant.
unless your first route is through a TA at which they quote the base first
'sir, your fare is (amount) + tax + YQ, let me calculate the tax+YQ for you.)
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Old Jun 1, 2014, 9:21 am
  #10493  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Posts: 1,765
Originally Posted by whimike
Why do people keep quoting a $100-$200 ticket? The amount charged to my credit card wasn't remotely that low. In the US, at least, it would have been illegal, and considered deceptive, for any agency that sells the ticket we bought to advertise or sell it as being a $100-$200 ticket

$110 was the "base fare", which is irrelevant to the consumer as it isn't the complete price that the consumer pays, and is often just a fraction of what the consumer pays.

As a case in point, I paid $1500 for my tickets.
I paid $250 for mine, so excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me.
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Old Jun 1, 2014, 9:22 am
  #10494  
 
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Originally Posted by Deltahater
you are absolutely correct, but why let facts get in the way of a good story?

There are several people on here who have an airline affiliation which they refuse to disclose, but their posts are so blatant that it is easy to identify and dissmiss their self-serving posts.
LOL What?! me? I flew my RGN ticket...sorry about your luck. I paid, if I remember correctly something like $280...maybe a bit more.
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Old Jun 1, 2014, 9:45 am
  #10495  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
I think that's the main worry... how will airlines use this decision to influence potential future DOT actions against mistake fares?

Unless DOT changes the exiting rule, they wont. 2 different countries, 2 different regulations, DOT has already shown they don't care of its an obvious mistake or not (See the the cheap UA and DL fares from late last year). In the FOIA request on the RGN fare, DL tried to add specific language in their COC that they don't plan on offering $0 fare as a way to get around honoring some mistakes and DOT said NO.
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Old Jun 1, 2014, 10:46 am
  #10496  
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Originally Posted by emma dog
Are you saying the group of 80+ shouldn't have filed a CTA complaint?
Unless they are paying for advice, I don't tell people what they should do: and telling them what they should have done is a particularly pointless exercise in hindsight.

What I am pointing out is that by pushing for a judgement, we now have a (potentially) damaging decision likely to strangle future opportunities.


The DOT position is now looking even odder, more exposed, than it did before.


The absolute winners in all this are the airlines, not SWISS alone. A judgement has been reached, a precedent established (formally or not): all carefully noted by the carriers.
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Old Jun 1, 2014, 10:54 am
  #10497  
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Originally Posted by whimike
As a case in point, I paid $1500 for my tickets.
Originally Posted by largeeyes
I paid $250 for mine
Originally Posted by largeeyes
I paid, if I remember correctly something like $280....

So how much was the RGN Canada fare ??? Perhaps the plural in whimike's post is significant.
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Old Jun 1, 2014, 11:10 am
  #10498  
 
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Originally Posted by IAN-UK
So how much was the RGN Canada fare ??? Perhaps the plural in whimike's post is significant.
There wasn't really just one RGN-Canada fare; it depended where you were flying to, the OTA with fees, and what airlines were involved.
My tickets for instance were $414.00 all in RGN (NH)-NRT(DL)-SEA(AS)-YVR from Expedia.uk. Other people reported getting the same route for less.
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Old Jun 1, 2014, 12:00 pm
  #10499  
 
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
A US or Canadian citizen might see it as a $600 fare (what they paid), others might see it closer to a $100 fare (plus fuel fines). The latter might look more of a mistake.
Yet, the end result is still the same, money goes to the airline pocket. Quoting just the lower amount only serves one purpose, propaganda.
You can find dozens and dozens of cheap fares in EU, some single digit ones. Yet somehow the airlines do cry foul if you paid less then 1/100 of the fare guy sitting next to you did!
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Old Jun 1, 2014, 12:16 pm
  #10500  
 
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Originally Posted by IAN-UK
So how much was the RGN Canada fare ??? Perhaps the plural in whimike's post is significant.
No fancy play on words by me, I had 2 tickets that were $1,500 each.
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