Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm
Last edit by: fti
People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!
Sep 27, 2013, 4:05 pm
#9136
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,404
can someone remind me what was the basis of the appeal to the federal court by Swiss?
was it a jurisdiction issue?
(Edited...found it at post 8696.)
was it a jurisdiction issue?
(Edited...found it at post 8696.)
Last edited by LHR/MEL/Europe FF; Sep 27, 2013 at 10:14 pm
Sep 27, 2013, 5:47 pm
#9137
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ
Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D
Posts: 1,976
Sep 27, 2013, 5:50 pm
#9138
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,404
depending what the appeal was about, it might be possible for Swiss to still appeal the final CTA ruling if Swiss believes there has been an error of law in reaching the conclusion.
but I don't know whether that was already covered in the above appeal based on the preliminary decision?
but I don't know whether that was already covered in the above appeal based on the preliminary decision?
Sep 27, 2013, 6:16 pm
#9139
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
I filed my informal complaint and received an email acknowledgement and info on the procedures. I am a happy camper on this 1st anniversary of this adventure.
BTW it's my and my DH's 27th anniversary today. We came back from dinner last year and I jumped on FT, as usual, and he watched TV. Wasn't a particularly romantic anniversary but what the hell. maybe we we come back from dinner tonight there will be another great fare awaiting me.....Secret of 27 years of happy marriage...let your wife go on FT whenever she wants....
Cheers
BTW it's my and my DH's 27th anniversary today. We came back from dinner last year and I jumped on FT, as usual, and he watched TV. Wasn't a particularly romantic anniversary but what the hell. maybe we we come back from dinner tonight there will be another great fare awaiting me.....Secret of 27 years of happy marriage...let your wife go on FT whenever she wants....
Cheers
Sep 27, 2013, 10:01 pm
#9140
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
Well, I see this is a huge set back for LX... Will they go to the Supreme Court? I eally doubt it.
I suspect they might become more open to settlement discussions, although I doubt any of us will be.
This is certainly great news for all of us.
I suspect they might become more open to settlement discussions, although I doubt any of us will be.
This is certainly great news for all of us.
Sep 27, 2013, 10:21 pm
#9141
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 143
I haven't been following this forever.
Is it still worth filing a complaint with the CTA? I sent swiss a complaint back in June or so, and then never heard anything (as expected).
Also, I have a second itinerary that was on RJ which was cancelled (without notice from expedia.ca ...), but I never followed up on that. Would pursuing this now be a waste of time?
Is it still worth filing a complaint with the CTA? I sent swiss a complaint back in June or so, and then never heard anything (as expected).
Also, I have a second itinerary that was on RJ which was cancelled (without notice from expedia.ca ...), but I never followed up on that. Would pursuing this now be a waste of time?
Sep 27, 2013, 10:33 pm
#9142
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA. UA 1K, reluctant but * best in class * DL FO/MM. Former BA jumpseat rider and scourge of Dilbertian management and apologists. As LX might - and do - say: "....an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines"
Posts: 3,386
The T-shirts
OK, if LX is going to have to transport us, we will need to have some T-shirts made.
Front, an FT warrior riding a cartoon LX340, whipping it with crop and spurs.
Back, Swiss International Airlines says that I am "an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines!"
Wear the uniform to check in, on board, and in the LX lounges. Take pics.
Front, an FT warrior riding a cartoon LX340, whipping it with crop and spurs.
Back, Swiss International Airlines says that I am "an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines!"
Wear the uniform to check in, on board, and in the LX lounges. Take pics.
Sep 28, 2013, 2:38 am
#9143
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Programs: BA Silver, EY Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Plat
Posts: 12,210
OK, if LX is going to have to transport us, we will need to have some T-shirts made.
Front, an FT warrior riding a cartoon LX340, whipping it with crop and spurs.
Back, Swiss International Airlines says that I am "an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines!"
Wear the uniform to check in, on board, and in the LX lounges. Take pics.
Front, an FT warrior riding a cartoon LX340, whipping it with crop and spurs.
Back, Swiss International Airlines says that I am "an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines!"
Wear the uniform to check in, on board, and in the LX lounges. Take pics.
Sep 28, 2013, 3:52 am
#9144
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Programs: BA Silver, EY Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Plat
Posts: 12,210
Also remember the recent case that LH lost on the PRG-CPT fare. Both will put some significant thoughts in their minds before they decide to cancel.
Sep 28, 2013, 5:30 am
#9145
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ヒルトン大阪
Programs: ゴールデングローブ
Posts: 1,982
Who cares? What is the value for most of us? Our tickets got cancelled and we are lost.
Sep 28, 2013, 7:02 am
#9146
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,924
Sep 28, 2013, 7:55 am
#9147
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,431
OK, if LX is going to have to transport us, we will need to have some T-shirts made.
Front, an FT warrior riding a cartoon LX340, whipping it with crop and spurs.
Back, Swiss International Airlines says that I am "an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines!"
Wear the uniform to check in, on board, and in the LX lounges. Take pics.
Front, an FT warrior riding a cartoon LX340, whipping it with crop and spurs.
Back, Swiss International Airlines says that I am "an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines!"
Wear the uniform to check in, on board, and in the LX lounges. Take pics.
I LOVE this. Though, they would probably claim it was some sort of threat and deny boarding. LX would love to do that.
Sep 28, 2013, 8:27 am
#9148
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
Or if you decided to sue LX, you may now be a big step closer to get $15,000 per ticket, plus attorney fees
Sep 28, 2013, 10:00 am
#9149
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: AMEX PLT, AA PPro, Spire AMB
Posts: 1,617
Contacted Swiss to fulfill informal complain requirements...and will start the process afterwards...
I am only able to use swiss' webform for contact, with datestamped contact...does anyone have a direct email to swiss customer service?
I am only able to use swiss' webform for contact, with datestamped contact...does anyone have a direct email to swiss customer service?
Sep 28, 2013, 10:10 am
#9150
Community Director Emerita
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Anywhere warm
Posts: 33,742
If the decision goes against Swiss, what exactly will they be required to do? They refused to carry us from Zurich to Montreal. That flight would be of little use to us today, given the expense to get to Zurich.
Separately my 30 days is about up with Swiss. So far, all I've received is a note of acknowledgment.
"Thank you for contacting Swiss International Air Lines Ltd. in regard to the travel you booked from Yangon (RGN), Myanmar. We are in receipt of your complaint and will provide you with a more substantive response as soon as possible."
Two questions:
1) Am I obliged to wait for that response before filing with the CTA?
2) Must I file with the CTA in order to be covered by their decision?
Separately my 30 days is about up with Swiss. So far, all I've received is a note of acknowledgment.
"Thank you for contacting Swiss International Air Lines Ltd. in regard to the travel you booked from Yangon (RGN), Myanmar. We are in receipt of your complaint and will provide you with a more substantive response as soon as possible."
Two questions:
1) Am I obliged to wait for that response before filing with the CTA?
2) Must I file with the CTA in order to be covered by their decision?