Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last edit by: fti

People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.

The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.

Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.

Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.

CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.

Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.

If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.

To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.

To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.

The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:

Other Letters:

Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.

Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612

Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612

Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt

Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt

Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1

Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1

Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC

Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC

Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)

Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88

Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1

Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla

Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1

Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1

Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm

Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2

Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm

Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2

Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl

Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz

14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG

19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG

Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl

Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz

CMB-DFW EY F

FARE IS GONE

FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)

WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!

ex-CMB
Feb

Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia

Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21

May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

Jun
12 - lelee

Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas

Sep

Oct

Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4

Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

ex-AUH
Jan

Feb

Mar

Apr
27 - RICHKLHS

May

Jun
29 - yerffej201

Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao

Aug

Sep

Oct

Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)

Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff

ex-DFW
Jan

Feb

Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1

Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir

May

Jun

Jul

Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1

Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Oct

Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris

Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)

[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!

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Jun 18, 2013, 2:35 pm

#8401

groobie

Join Date: Jan 2012

Location: Southern California

Programs: UA Platinum, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold, Club Carlson Gold

Posts: 317

I had basically given up when the US DOT told us to pound sand, but I kept all of my emails and documentation. I just submitted a formal CTA complaint via the online form and the documents via email. Hey, might as well...it can't hurt. My tickets were for July 31, but the JFK-YYZ-YUL segments still claim to be valid on Expedia. Swiss can just reinstate the other segments and I'll be on my way.

Jun 18, 2013, 2:38 pm

#8402

TallestHotelInJapan

Suspended

Join Date: Jan 2012

Location: ヒルトン大阪

Programs: ゴールデングローブ

Posts: 1,982

TallestHotelInJapan in the air

Quote:

Originally Posted by babypuwet

just completed my SQ suites, what an epic experience! TallestHotelinJapan, were you on the flight today and seated in 1F and 2F? I didn't recognize the two gentlemen until we were about to deplane and they were on my RGN-KUL flight in business class.

I was on SQ 308 from SIN to LHR on 16.06.2013. First booked 1A, changed then to 3A and had dinner in 4A.

Jun 18, 2013, 3:06 pm

#8403

mcdevit

Join Date: Oct 2002

Location: Seattle, Chiang Rai

Programs: Marco Polo Gold, Alaska MVP Gold, Ivar's Carte Clam, Taco Time Loyalty Card

Posts: 253

Quote:

Originally Posted by nature1370

Anyone here can recommend me a hotel in Yangon for 1 night at a reasonable price (would say below $100)? Last time I was there, I stayed at Myanmar Life Hotel for $80 per night and it was not good at all. The wifi is really weak and the restroom has some problems with water. The hotel is not what it should be from their pictures and descriptions I would say. The breakfast foods are barely ok and I had to skip my meal. Thanks for your suggestions.

I've stayed at the Alfa three times an in my opinion it's very nice. Its about $100.00 per night. Great location, friendly staff, and clean. Internet can be slow and the elevator is slow, but for RGN its a good value.

Jun 18, 2013, 3:14 pm

#8404

CDKing

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Dec 2007

Location: BOS/ORH

Programs: AS 75K

Posts: 18,323

I guess its time to file with CTA on my round 3. Maybe i can try to get reimbursed for the $800 i spent on a positioniong flight to HKG. I already cancelled the award from HKG-RGN

Jun 18, 2013, 3:32 pm

#8405

IAN-UK

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Aug 2000

Location: London

Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK

Posts: 17,008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

Let's see if the other complaints follow suit. But only SEVEN COMPLAINTS?!!?? My god, there are like 1,000 people in this thread, half of which were on LX, no? Wow, talk about lazy

The document refers to cancelled tickets. I don't know if this is a deliberately specific term, or a generic one to include gowngraded travel.

I think most of the unhappiness surfacing on this thread was from passengers seated in economy rather than in the F-cabin ticketd.

This could explain the low number of complaints referred to in the document.

Was Swiss the issuing carrier for any tickets?

Jun 18, 2013, 3:36 pm

#8406

lewende

Join Date: Aug 2011

Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ

Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D

Posts: 1,976

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAN-UK

Was Swiss the issuing carrier for any tickets?

If LX were the plating carrier, the tickets would have been cancelled, no exceptions.

LX has perfectly demonstrated Swiss-styled accuracy and preciseness toward this matter of cancellation.

Jun 18, 2013, 3:51 pm

#8407

onlysuites

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Sep 2003

Programs: BA Silver, EY Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Plat

Posts: 12,210

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewende

If LX were the plating carrier, the tickets would have been cancelled, no exceptions.

LX has perfectly demonstrated Swiss-styled accuracy and preciseness toward this matter of cancellation.

Lewende was it you that had won against IB? Any further on getting them to pay up?

Jun 18, 2013, 4:10 pm

#8408

AA_EXP09

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Oct 2011

Location: Anywhere I need to be.

Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond

Posts: 16,046

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlysuites

I have been saying from the start that people should pursue it if their tickets were cancelled. I guess they took the advise of the negative few who said nothing would come of it.

Glad for those that fought it. ^

Thanks!
Then again, my ticket wasn't even purchased online (though it technically was as my TA used the Internet to connect to the relevant GDS)
My bigger problem now is depositing the ages old check...

Jun 18, 2013, 5:04 pm

#8409

erasmus99

Join Date: Dec 2007

Programs: Aeroplan, BMI, Hyatt, SPG, PC

Posts: 606

It almost seems as though Swiss did not really contest this decision very hard.

http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/239-c-a-2013

Jun 18, 2013, 5:32 pm

#8410

danger

Join Date: Apr 2007

Programs: QF, VA, AC, Hyatt, Marriott

Posts: 3,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by yerffej201

Yes! CTA RULING:

Congratulations. This is very good news and well done for persisting.

I have three IB-cancelled tickets from round three. Because I have one live remaining ticket I've held off causing a stir. But now, once I've flown the live ticket, I'll be all over IB like a fat kid on a cupcake with direct reference to this ruling.

Jun 18, 2013, 5:58 pm

#8411

BrewerSEA

Join Date: Nov 2010

Location: Seattle

Programs: AS MVPG 75K

Posts: 2,574

Finally some justice!

To be honest I wish I had the option of reinstating my ticket rather than being compensated, but I can't really complain.

Perhaps I'll write Gilles Gagne a little email, but I'm not waiting a year for a reinstated ticket...

Jun 18, 2013, 6:47 pm

#8412

bangkokiscool

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 1,259

YESSSSSSSSS

Thank you to everyone who complained to CTA. I confess that I did not pursue with CTA after my DOT complaint failed, because I thought DOT rules were so much stronger. I guess I was wrong!

The CTA decision is really gratifying to read. CTA didn't even bother with the argument about "technical error" -- CTA just said Swiss' tariff is unreasonable and harms consumers, and it wasn't really interested in Swiss' claim that the tickets harmed their shareholders.

I just sent Swiss an email asking them if they would be contacting me to reinstate my ticket, or if I file with CTA first.

Jun 18, 2013, 6:47 pm

#8413

5DMarkIIguy

Join Date: Jun 2011

Posts: 794

Quote:

Originally Posted by erasmus99

It almost seems as though Swiss did not really contest this decision very hard.

http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/239-c-a-2013

Oh, they fought, alright. They had some lawyer in Montreal going back and forth, including some threat regarding lawyer fee.
Their arguments have more holes than their cheese.

Jun 18, 2013, 6:54 pm

#8414

YYZC2

Join Date: Dec 2001

Location: YYZ

Posts: 6,138

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewerSEA

I'm assuming you bought one of the AA/BA filed ex-CMB A fares with perhaps a couple of (may they rest in peace) EK segs? If you can get LX to pay for that, I'd say you got the better of the two outcomes...

Jun 18, 2013, 6:59 pm

#8415

BrewerSEA

Join Date: Nov 2010

Location: Seattle

Programs: AS MVPG 75K

Posts: 2,574

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangkokiscool

CTA did consider the issue of technical error. In fact, it is only the ruling on the technical error that guarantees us compensation at this point, the ruling on whether Rule 005F remains in the tariff is subject to a response by Swiss and a counter-response by the seven complainants.

Quote:

[74] The Agency therefore finds that, on a balance of probabilities, Swiss has not established that a technical failure occurred at all and, consequently, Swiss has not demonstrated that it properly applied Tariff Rule 5(F) when it cancelled the complainants’ tickets.

...

[81] Swiss is instructed that it is not being provided an opportunity to re-argue the nature of the alleged technical failure. It is only being provided an opportunity to argue why Tariff Rule 5(F) balances the rights of passengers to be subject to reasonable terms and conditions of carriage with the air carrier’s statutory, commercial and operational obligations.

I think if you wish to have your ticket reinstated you will need to file through CTA, though perhaps it will be dealt with through the informal complaint process instead.