beepyou

Can I be added to your 'notification list'

civicmon

No it isn't. This is legit. I read about this a few months ago. It's tricky, but you need locals to make it work. If you're pretty gutsy it can be done if you know Spanish.. i'll explain....

Venezuela has a massive currency black market. Go to CCS lately? The Immigration agents want a crack at your dollars and often quote an inflated VEB rate. They usually offer low rates than the street, so go to the customs desk and everyone there will offer you VEB for dollars. If you really get gutsy, leave the customs hall and deal with the money changers outside. There's more people wanting dollars than people with dollars. Negotiate a good rate. Spanish is ESSENTIAL or you'll never get the real street rate.

If you have Venezuelan friends, they'll love to take your dollars off your hands. Just give them a call.

See, the gov't fixes the rate at such an artificially low rate that the black market is everything. People can't find staples such as milk/eggs since they're bought at the official rate by insiders and sold at the black market rate.

Panama and Aruba are FLOODED with Venezuelans these days. They show up, take $5000 cash advances off credit cards (max allowed by law per month) and get USD from the Panama or Aruban casinos, fly home that afternoon with $5000 in cold USD, change it at the unofficial rate of nearly 4800VEB, pay the cards off and pocket the nearly $4000-5000 (at the VEB street rate) exchange difference. They're all over the place, everyone knows about it and no one is stopping anyone. COPA Airlines loves this, their CCS/Maracaibo flights which were money losers are suddenly oversold 5 days a week.

It's essential to have a local friend to get tickets at this rate. They need to write the check for the airline tickets. By Venezuelan law, all business transactions MUST be done in VEB. This is the kicker. They cannot ask for USD or make payment in such a requirement. They can use a credit card too, but the card will charge at the official rate which is counterproductive, unless you can pay the card with converted USD.

So, you have a friend whose cousin is in CCS, give him a good amount of USD and let him do the talking and you should be ok.

This is legit... but it's not easy unless you got a contact in Venezuela.

EDIT: I'm not a mod nor do I speak for one, but this is legal in my world.

What is a very large gray area is the changing of USD to VEB. I'm not 100% sure of the legality of changing through an unofficial channel such as a guy in a black Explorer with a briefcase, but this has been going on in other forms since at least 2001 when the peg was established. However, enacting the transaction in airline tickets is no different than Orbitz or Expedia, seller offering a ticket and a buyer with hard cash looking to buy.

Google this topic if you think I'm nuts. What you find will re-enforce this. The black market rate in VEB is everything these days and it's getting tough to live w/o any access to USD.

EDIT 2: My info may be dated. I read that the Chavez Gov't was going to ratchet up the rate but I'm not sure if that actually occurred. What I did read was that even the new rate they were proposing was still very far out of line with the street rate. Inflation is extremely high (20-30%) but interest rates are very low which is helping fuel the $$/VEB gap.

This article from Sept 2007 explains the black market pricing. It also talks about the Credit Card Advances in Aruba and Curacao. Key point:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/...berg/bxbux.php

civicmon

At some point, your tickets need to have a Venezuela origin... however, like all ticket sold, conditions and such apply so you can shoot down to CCS for a weekend with a fistful of dollars and a few phone numbers, buy a return to JFK/PHL/IAD/Where ever you live, but as part of a larger, expansive flight but the first leg is your "home" leg... skip the end back to Venezuela and you're in business.

Or, fly back to CCS and use up the rest of the award you cashed in to get down there

FWIW, I HAVE NEVER DONE THIS.. but I have friends who are down that way and I know a lot about how it works. I'm not a contact, don't PM me as I don't know anyone who can make this work, but it can work if you know people who can help you ($$$$$$) through the process.

flyerman770

A) I am willing to try it out myself when I will be there, as I mentioned earlier.
B) I do not want to involve my parents in it because they are too straight for this kind of shtick.
C) The fact that the fare is available on a Venezuelan Website shows something. I have emailed someone in that travel agency and they said they can do it, but it might be hard if the airline doesn't have a Venezuelan office, because they have to wire the money.
D) I will repeat the same thing again. Once I will be there I will try it out for you. Will keep in touch.

Happy Purim.

beaubo

If the ticket has to be ex-CCS, then wouldn't the pricing be far less competitive than an ex-USA or ex-European or ASian gateway, so that whatever savings you anticipate, gets chewed up because of the high ex-CCS fare????

civicmon

Possibly.. Like I stated, I never did this.... BUT if one is concerned that their flights will be cancelled, then buy it ex-CCS, as the origin where the actual ticket stock shows CCS.

That way it will have some legitimacy as being issued as a R/T CCS-EWR/MIA/DFW/ATL-NRT/HKG/SIN vs. EWR-HKG on from a Venezuelan ticketing agency.

I have no idea if ticketing this is a problem as I stated I never done these purchases, but the black market pricing is a very serious reality today in Venezuela.

EDIT: my info is NOT dated: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/wor...html?id=302202

date: Feb 12 2008

If you cannot get your USD changed at the black market rate, you have wasted your time and your money. That is the ONLY way that purchasing these tickets at the official rate makes any sense.

Having a friend to personally do this is the best way. Again, if you speak Spanish and can fly down there.... it can also work but I wouldn't try this any other way.

I don't even think I know enough Spanish to make such currency exchanges and ticket purchases, nevermind that CCS is the hemisphere's most dangerous city....

flyerman770

Not only eggs and milk. There hasn't been sugar, flour, or ANY staples.

The government started cracking down on these, and people who used the cc for cash advances rather than purchases, are being nailed by the government. I know of people who had their cards cancelled in middle of their international stay, and they had to pay back the government to get back their money.

You can obviously pay with Cash also, and that's the safest if you are scared to get nailed. I don't think anyone will be nailed, as there is absolutely no law and order in venezuela. And even if someone comes to your door to arrest you, just give him 20 bucks and you are free to go.

When it started in mar. 2003 it was at 1,4 official price and 2,7 in the black market price, since then the black price has been pretty steady at around double (more or less) of the official price. Except for when Chavez utters some threat and causes the people to panic.

flyerman770

No. The CCS rates are pretty cheap today. Especially if you fly to the South American Gateway (MIA), and go from there, as there is quite a few Venezuelan and other airlines flying from CCS to MIA (AA has 5-6 daily flights, SB has a few, etc.)

EDIT: Don't forget that the prices for flights are also regulated by the government (to a certain degree), there is a maximum a ticket can cost. And usually Venezuelan flights are cheaper because of the cheap gas they get (being locals they pay local price, as opposed to the international ones which pay american prices)

civicmon

yep.. basic food commodities... I just used eggs/milk as my example.


This is somewhat new.. Friend of mine was in PTY back in Dec/Jan and stated how the casinos there were crawling with people from Venezuela just to charge to USD at the bank rate, take the USD to CCS and convert on the street, pay bills, wait 30 days and go again.

Gotta love Latin Amer law enforcement Like i said I'm not sure about the legality of black market monetary transactions down there but green US$ cash is king in that country.

I first heard about this in mid-2003 from a Canadian fella (who was obviously very white and spoke little/no Spanish) who was mobbed by people in the bank itselfwho were offering the street rate for VEB for his USD that he was carrying. Apparently the rate was fixed in 1999? I thought 2001...

As quoted in the Canadian article I posted, the country is an f'n ripoff at the bank rate.. black market rate is how anything is done there these days.

I'm trying to help you here. This sounds far-fetched but for one who doesn't read the news in that area nor has any real understanding of the currency devaluations going on down there, it's a very far-fetched story that doesn't seem plausible but it's very true... just takes contacts or a lot of guts.

It's guts (and contacts) I don't have... here's another small tip... RTWs....

beaubo

[QUOTE=civicmon;932765.. here's another small tip... RTWs....[/QUOTE]

saving 40-50% off an ex-CCS RTW in J or F.

625% BD miles!!!!!

civicmon

If you can make it work........... The actual price is quoted in USD, converted at the official/bank rate to a VEB total but as long as you got that VEB to pay, who cares how you got the VEB.

Contacts, espanol and confidence are keys.

flyerman770

The rate was fixed at a 1,3 at 1999-2000 already, but the currency controil started in mar. 2003

Thank you for helping me out. Its good to hear that some people actually understand and know that not every country is run like the US with police and government and dollars and banks and food...

Guava

Only beaubo would have the guts to try this kind of venture. I think there is a better way of nailing that 625% mileage with BD*G than travelling all the way to CCS with a lot of unknown ramifications, including personal security issues, plus the cost of getting there.

civicmon

Good points; restricting the common Jose's access to foreign currency is the problem here, thus the insane demand for it.
Political Economy (and East Asian studies...) is what I studied in college. This is a topic I find extremely fascinating from a sociological standpoint as well as a political one. This sort of dual currency/exchange regime was common in the 80s in Latin Amer countries trying to battle hyperinflation but now only Venezuela, Zimbabwe (which is a complete mess), Cuba and Burma are the only few countries with any real solid forex black market (there may be others but they're minor players in the world as it is).

It's fascinating to me since those who are middle class with some contacts are having a field day exploiting the system for what it's worth... the Panama/Aruba/Curacao trips for instance. Also the intrepid trying to make some VEB to feed their own family by brokering USD to locals who have the VEB to buy US$ thus taking their cut of the bid/ask spread.

It's really screwing up their economy for the reasons I stated above. It's akin to Cuba where those who have dollars coming in have nice houses and refrigerators and those who do not are stuck in commie-issued shacks. No different at all... just how the cards fell for some people. The rich get richer but they're buying cars and electronics faster than they can be imported and selling them for the same price just six months later. Try buying a Toyota 4Runner or Landcrusier in CCS... if you can find one for sale. With 12 cent gas they're sold for the next year or so.

civicmon

That's why I've never done it.

CCS isn't Disneyland.. it's a VERY rough place. Having local contacts is much easier than doing this on your own with a guidebook and a pocket translator. I read that it was considered to be the most dangerous city in the western hemisphere and was approaching JNB for the lovely title of crime capital of the world.

That being said.... if you got some contacts who are in the know (and anyone middle/upper class should be)... it's apparently not a bad place to be as oil money is flying through that place faster than ships can send it to refineries in Lake Charles, LA or Corpus Christi, TX.

Note: CCS is a rough place but there are flights to Maracaibo (MAR) which isn't a very pleasant of a place to be at all but that's mostly due to the oppressive heat; also maybe Valencia (VLN) or the Isla Margarita-area, but other then CCS/MAR, you'll pay dearly for those flights.