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Cant see fare rules in expedia fares search

Cant see fare rules in expedia fares search

Old Apr 18, 05, 9:19 pm
  #1  
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Cant see fare rules in expedia fares search

Hey all,

Been running into this problem lately, when ever I go to expedia fare search
I can get a list of fares from any 2 points but when I click on "more rules..." for any of the listed fares all I get is a screen that says "expedia is checking the fare, etc etc" and then I get a blank screen. This has been happeing to me on the US, CAN and German sites for quite a few days now.

I usually stick to travelocity to chk on fare prices but I liked using expedia to check on fair rules, mainly in regards to permitted routing and such which I can't get to see on travelocity. (specially when looking for a MR)

Anyways, is this an issue anyone else has been running into? If not can any offer an alternative to view fares rules (permissble routings)?

Thanks

Last edited by Pixel; Apr 18, 05 at 9:24 pm
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Old Apr 18, 05, 9:28 pm
  #2  
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This has been going on for quite some time. The workaround is to build a sample trip at Expedia, then click the fare rules.
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Old Apr 18, 05, 9:33 pm
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For which city pair and airline are you looking for a routing?
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Old Apr 18, 05, 9:45 pm
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And by the way, the reason nobody offers a better way to view fare rules/routings is because the GDS' closely monitor "messages" sent to/from their system, and establish a ratio of messages to bookings. If you generate too much traffic/messages without making many bookings, you either get charged for the messages, or lose your contract to access the GDS.

For this reason, it just isn't economical to offer people the ability to perform high volume queries to the GDS, unless it's something which offers a more direct return for the company providing the service.
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Old Apr 18, 05, 9:50 pm
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Thx for the tip Chana, worked like a charm (now why didn't I think of that)


drtravix -

Oh, currently I'm looking at MCO-LAS for an upcoming biz trip on AA, as memory serves MIA-DFW-LAX are pretty much safe bets for routing if memory serves just couldn't remember how ORD-STL-SFO-SEA fit in there, but with Chana's tip all is well

Thanks for the scoop re: GDS, it makes sense.

Last edited by Pixel; Apr 18, 05 at 9:53 pm
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Old Apr 19, 05, 10:06 am
  #6  
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Originally Posted by drtravix
And by the way, the reason nobody offers a better way to view fare rules/routings is because the GDS' closely monitor "messages" sent to/from their system, and establish a ratio of messages to bookings. If you generate too much traffic/messages without making many bookings, you either get charged for the messages, or lose your contract to access the GDS.

For this reason, it just isn't economical to offer people the ability to perform high volume queries to the GDS, unless it's something which offers a more direct return for the company providing the service.
In my opinion this is short sighted. I would be travelling more if I could see fare rules. But the flip side is that people would make a sample booking just to view the fare rules and not purchase a ticket. MAking a sample booking maynot always work since the fbooking might not show the fare whose rules you want to see.
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Old Apr 19, 05, 2:48 pm
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
In my opinion this is short sighted. I would be travelling more if I could see fare rules. But the flip side is that people would make a sample booking just to view the fare rules and not purchase a ticket. MAking a sample booking maynot always work since the fbooking might not show the fare whose rules you want to see.
To book a flight by going from fare rules to a booking...
a) is used only by an extremely small fraction of air travelers.
b) generates more messages per booking than 'traditional' methods (on avg).

I think to maintain a tool to do this, and to supply the GDS access for such queries, would cost more than it could bring in. For example, I may check fare rules between 20 city pairs each day (on average), for a month or two until I come up with something I like. That is 20*60*2=2400 messages for one booking (20 cities, 60 days, query/result msg). And that doesn't even consider the availability queries and actual booking queries, which could tack on a few hundred more messages. While I don't have any metrics available to me, I can't see how the 'average' or 'traditional' airfare purchaser would generate that many messages for an average booking. By the very nature of what we are trying to do, we need more information than the average traveler, which ends up costing more money and consuming more computing resources.

Simply put, 'we' are such a small fraction of a percent of air travelers, that even by catering a tool to our needs, I don't think they could recover their costs or justify such a feature in a business plan review, because there just aren't enough of us. In fact, there are only a few hundred 'semi regulars' on the FT MR board. Expedia, for example, targets a market where millions of travelers purchase tickets. For them to add in features which appeal to one or two thousand of their customers... well, I can't see it happening.

Just my opinion, but I can see why the larger companies won't devote the resources to making fare rules available.
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Old May 17, 05, 1:55 am
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permitted routings

I am desperately looking for the fare rules (esp. routings) for the following AA fare to construct my first MR

LLX21AP

I can't find any routing information on Expedia and it isn't clear from the postings here whether I should (or if Expedia is "broken").

Can anybody help?

Thanks a lot!
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Old May 18, 05, 11:50 am
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Originally Posted by dukieee
I am desperately looking for the fare rules (esp. routings) for the following AA fare to construct my first MR

LLX21AP

I can't find any routing information on Expedia and it isn't clear from the postings here whether I should (or if Expedia is "broken").

Can anybody help?

Thanks a lot!
What is the source/destination city?
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Old May 18, 05, 1:45 pm
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Originally Posted by drtravix
What is the source/destination city?
what I need is

RDU-->CPH and TXL-->RDU (open jaw).

I found out that I can go via MIA instead of JFK or ORD, which adds about 1k each way. But that was pure trial and error, would be nice to see the rules to be able to reroute some more.
Also, it seems that this fare doesn't care which european city I fly into, it is the same for RDU-->TXL-->RDU as for the itinerary above.

Thanks!
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Old May 18, 05, 2:14 pm
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International flights don't usually have routing rules, instead they have maximum permitted miles. Here's the rules for rdu-cph

for routing it says:

ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED



Code:
RDUCPH-AA 18MAY05      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0001 RULE 3101 
* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          
001-FARE BASIS         USD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 
LLX21AP         R    646.00    646.00               ADT  EX  AT 
LLX21AP         R    646.00    646.00               CNN  EX  AT 
LLX21AP         R    646.00    646.00               INS  EX  AT 
LLX21AP/IN90    R     65.00     64.60               INF  EX  AT 
LLX21AP         R    646.00    646.00               UNN  EX  AT 
BOOKING CODES        L                                          
FIRST TRAVEL    -10APR05                                        
SEASONS     - 01NOV-16DEC FOR EACH TRIP                         
              DEPARTURE EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR               
              05JAN-17MAR FOR EACH TRIP  
              DEPARTURE EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR>4F.R1¥SEA   ( 
PENALTIES   - CANCEL-NON REF BEFORE/AFTER DEPART                
              CHANGE-200.00 USD BEFORE DEPART                   
              CHANGE-200.00 USD AFTER DEPART                    
              FOR ALL CONDITIONS SEE TEXT RULE   >4F.R1¥PEN   ( 
DAY/TIME    - MON THRU THU ALL DAY                              
              DEPARTURE EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR>4F.R1¥DAY   ( 
ADV RES/TKT - RES REQ 21 DAYS BEFORE DEPART                     
              TKTG WITHIN 3 DAYS AFTER RESERVATIONS             
              OR AT LEAST 21 DAYS BEFORE DEPART                 
              WHICHEVER IS EARLIER                              
              STANDBYS NOT PERMITTED ALL SEGMENTS               
              FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE  >4F.R1¥ADV   ( 
MIN STAY    - RETURN FIRST SUNDAY AFTER                         
              DEPARTURE OUTBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR           
                                                 >4F.R1¥MIN   ( 
MAX STAY    - 30 DAYS BEFORE MIDNIGHT AFTER                     
              DEPARTURE FROM ORIGIN              >4F.R1¥MAX   ( 
BLACKOUTS   - NO RESTRICTION                                    
SURCHARGES  - 35.00 USD MISC/OTHER PER DIRECTION                
              TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR                              
              35.00 USD FUEL PER DIRECTION                      
              TRANSPACIFIC SECTOR                >4F.R1¥SUR   ( 
STOPOVERS   - NOT PERMITTED DEPARTURE FROM ORIGIN>4F.R1¥STO   ( 
TRANSFERS   - 4 INTERLINE PERMITTED OUTBOUND 2                  
              INBOUND 2 FURTHER RESTR APPLY  SEE TEXT RULE  
              UNLIMITED ONLINE PERMITTED         >4F.R1¥TRA   ( 
FLT APPLIC  - MUST NOT BE VIA ANY AF FLIGHT      >4F.R1¥FLT   ( 
CHILD DISC  - INF UNDER 2 YRS 90 PCT NO SEAT     >4F.R1¥CHD   ( 
OTHER DISC  - NONE                                              
COMBINABLTY - SEE TEXT RULE                      >4F.R1¥COM   ( 
ELIGIBILITY - NO RESTRICTION                                    
ACCOM PSGR  - NO RESTRICTION                                    
TRVL RESTR  - NO RESTRICTION                                    
SALES RESTR - TKT ON/AFTER 03APR04                              
              TKT BY PTA PTA-TKT PERMITTED       >4F.R1¥SLS   ( 
NEGOTIATED  - NO RESTRICTION                                    
TKT ENDORSE - ORIGINAL/REISSUED TKT -                           
              NONREF/CHG FEE APPLIES MUST APPEAR IN   
              ENDORSEMENT BOX ORIGINAL/REISSUED TKT -           
              NO VALUE AFTER FLT TIME MUST APPEAR IN            
              ENDORSEMENT BOX                                   
              FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE  >4F.R1¥END   ( 
APPLICATION - SEE TEXT RULE                      >4F.R1¥APL   ( 
TOUR DISC   - SEE TEXT RULE                      >4F.R1¥TCD   ( 
AGENT DISC  - SEE TEXT RULE                      >4F.R1¥AGT   ( 
MISC TAGS   - SEE TEXT RULE                      >4F.R1¥MIS   ( 
MPM - AT  5128 VIA NORTH ATLANTIC                               
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - XAN - APEX NONREFUNDABLE                   
PFCS MAY VARY BY RTG                                            
ROUTING MPM  MPM TRVL PERMITTED   
APPLICATION - SEE TEXT RULE                      >4F.R1¥APL   ( 
TOUR DISC   - SEE TEXT RULE                      >4F.R1¥TCD   ( 
AGENT DISC  - SEE TEXT RULE                      >4F.R1¥AGT   ( 
MISC TAGS   - SEE TEXT RULE                      >4F.R1¥MIS   ( 
MPM - AT  5128 VIA NORTH ATLANTIC                               
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - XAN - APEX NONREFUNDABLE                   
PFCS MAY VARY BY RTG                                            
ROUTING MPM  MPM TRVL PERMITTED                                 
                                                                
>4F.R1      (  >4F.R1¥BRI (  >4F.R1¥TKT (  >4F.R1¥ALL (         
>4F.R1¥MENU (  >4F*       (
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Old May 18, 05, 2:54 pm
  #12  
 
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newbie exploring fare rules

Oh I see, no wonder I didn't find airport codes in the routing...

So

"ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
MPM - AT 5128 VIA NORTH"

means I can have at most 5128 miles on the international segment? Or is that total miles?

and
"TRANSFERS - 4 INTERLINE PERMITTED OUTBOUND 2
INBOUND 2 FURTHER RESTR APPLY
UNLIMITED ONLINE PERMITTED"

means I can transfer as much as I want with the given airline (so I could do RDU-DFW-MIA-Europe?). The latter doesn't would be nice from a MR perspective but doesn't sound like they would allow that...
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Old May 18, 05, 3:29 pm
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Originally Posted by dukieee
"ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
MPM - AT 5128 VIA NORTH"

means I can have at most 5128 miles on the international segment? Or is that total miles?
Total miles, although you can exceed it by as much as 25% and pay an MPM surcharge.

Background on this can be found on these threads:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=363332
http://web.archive.org/web/200212270...ML/002300.html

Originally Posted by dukieee
"TRANSFERS - 4 INTERLINE PERMITTED OUTBOUND 2
INBOUND 2 FURTHER RESTR APPLY
UNLIMITED ONLINE PERMITTED"

means I can transfer as much as I want with the given airline (so I could do RDU-DFW-MIA-Europe?). The latter doesn't would be nice from a MR perspective but doesn't sound like they would allow that...
On this fare, you can make unlimited transfers on AA and two total per direction in Europe between AA and another carrier or between two other carriers. A limiting factor here might be the Flight Application (FLT APPLIC) which can be obtained from Travelocity's Fare listing. For example, on this fare an interline transfer to AF would not be permitted.
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