Cant see fare rules in expedia fares search
Apr 18, 05, 9:19 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: TYO / NYC
Programs: AA PLAT, UA GLD, HH GLD
Posts: 124
Cant see fare rules in expedia fares search
Hey all,
Been running into this problem lately, when ever I go to expedia fare search
I can get a list of fares from any 2 points but when I click on "more rules..." for any of the listed fares all I get is a screen that says "expedia is checking the fare, etc etc" and then I get a blank screen. This has been happeing to me on the US, CAN and German sites for quite a few days now.
I usually stick to travelocity to chk on fare prices but I liked using expedia to check on fair rules, mainly in regards to permitted routing and such which I can't get to see on travelocity. (specially when looking for a MR)
Anyways, is this an issue anyone else has been running into? If not can any offer an alternative to view fares rules (permissble routings)?
Thanks
Been running into this problem lately, when ever I go to expedia fare search
I can get a list of fares from any 2 points but when I click on "more rules..." for any of the listed fares all I get is a screen that says "expedia is checking the fare, etc etc" and then I get a blank screen. This has been happeing to me on the US, CAN and German sites for quite a few days now.
I usually stick to travelocity to chk on fare prices but I liked using expedia to check on fair rules, mainly in regards to permitted routing and such which I can't get to see on travelocity. (specially when looking for a MR)
Anyways, is this an issue anyone else has been running into? If not can any offer an alternative to view fares rules (permissble routings)?
Thanks
Last edited by Pixel; Apr 18, 05 at 9:24 pm
Apr 18, 05, 9:45 pm
#4
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 422
And by the way, the reason nobody offers a better way to view fare rules/routings is because the GDS' closely monitor "messages" sent to/from their system, and establish a ratio of messages to bookings. If you generate too much traffic/messages without making many bookings, you either get charged for the messages, or lose your contract to access the GDS.
For this reason, it just isn't economical to offer people the ability to perform high volume queries to the GDS, unless it's something which offers a more direct return for the company providing the service.
For this reason, it just isn't economical to offer people the ability to perform high volume queries to the GDS, unless it's something which offers a more direct return for the company providing the service.
Apr 18, 05, 9:50 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: TYO / NYC
Programs: AA PLAT, UA GLD, HH GLD
Posts: 124
Thx for the tip Chana, worked like a charm (now why didn't I think of that) 
drtravix -
Oh, currently I'm looking at MCO-LAS for an upcoming biz trip on AA, as memory serves MIA-DFW-LAX are pretty much safe bets for routing if memory serves just couldn't remember how ORD-STL-SFO-SEA fit in there, but with Chana's tip all is well
Thanks for the scoop re: GDS, it makes sense.
(now why didn't I think of that) drtravix -
Oh, currently I'm looking at MCO-LAS for an upcoming biz trip on AA, as memory serves MIA-DFW-LAX are pretty much safe bets for routing if memory serves just couldn't remember how ORD-STL-SFO-SEA fit in there, but with Chana's tip all is well
Thanks for the scoop re: GDS, it makes sense.
Last edited by Pixel; Apr 18, 05 at 9:53 pm
Apr 19, 05, 10:06 am
#6
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,791
Originally Posted by drtravix
And by the way, the reason nobody offers a better way to view fare rules/routings is because the GDS' closely monitor "messages" sent to/from their system, and establish a ratio of messages to bookings. If you generate too much traffic/messages without making many bookings, you either get charged for the messages, or lose your contract to access the GDS.
For this reason, it just isn't economical to offer people the ability to perform high volume queries to the GDS, unless it's something which offers a more direct return for the company providing the service.
For this reason, it just isn't economical to offer people the ability to perform high volume queries to the GDS, unless it's something which offers a more direct return for the company providing the service.
Apr 19, 05, 2:48 pm
#7
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 422
Originally Posted by Yaatri
In my opinion this is short sighted. I would be travelling more if I could see fare rules. But the flip side is that people would make a sample booking just to view the fare rules and not purchase a ticket. MAking a sample booking maynot always work since the fbooking might not show the fare whose rules you want to see.
a) is used only by an extremely small fraction of air travelers.
b) generates more messages per booking than 'traditional' methods (on avg).
I think to maintain a tool to do this, and to supply the GDS access for such queries, would cost more than it could bring in. For example, I may check fare rules between 20 city pairs each day (on average), for a month or two until I come up with something I like. That is 20*60*2=2400 messages for one booking (20 cities, 60 days, query/result msg). And that doesn't even consider the availability queries and actual booking queries, which could tack on a few hundred more messages. While I don't have any metrics available to me, I can't see how the 'average' or 'traditional' airfare purchaser would generate that many messages for an average booking. By the very nature of what we are trying to do, we need more information than the average traveler, which ends up costing more money and consuming more computing resources.
Simply put, 'we' are such a small fraction of a percent of air travelers, that even by catering a tool to our needs, I don't think they could recover their costs or justify such a feature in a business plan review, because there just aren't enough of us. In fact, there are only a few hundred 'semi regulars' on the FT MR board. Expedia, for example, targets a market where millions of travelers purchase tickets. For them to add in features which appeal to one or two thousand of their customers... well, I can't see it happening.
Just my opinion, but I can see why the larger companies won't devote the resources to making fare rules available.
May 17, 05, 1:55 am
#8
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ATL, BER
Programs: AA LTGLD, DL PLT, SPG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 474
permitted routings
I am desperately looking for the fare rules (esp. routings) for the following AA fare to construct my first MR
LLX21AP
I can't find any routing information on Expedia and it isn't clear from the postings here whether I should (or if Expedia is "broken").
Can anybody help?
Thanks a lot!
LLX21AP
I can't find any routing information on Expedia and it isn't clear from the postings here whether I should (or if Expedia is "broken").
Can anybody help?
Thanks a lot!
May 18, 05, 11:50 am
#9
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 422
Originally Posted by dukieee
I am desperately looking for the fare rules (esp. routings) for the following AA fare to construct my first MR
LLX21AP
I can't find any routing information on Expedia and it isn't clear from the postings here whether I should (or if Expedia is "broken").
Can anybody help?
Thanks a lot!
LLX21AP
I can't find any routing information on Expedia and it isn't clear from the postings here whether I should (or if Expedia is "broken").
Can anybody help?
Thanks a lot!
May 18, 05, 1:45 pm
#10
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ATL, BER
Programs: AA LTGLD, DL PLT, SPG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 474
Originally Posted by drtravix
What is the source/destination city?
RDU-->CPH and TXL-->RDU (open jaw).
I found out that I can go via MIA instead of JFK or ORD, which adds about 1k each way. But that was pure trial and error, would be nice to see the rules to be able to reroute some more.
Also, it seems that this fare doesn't care which european city I fly into, it is the same for RDU-->TXL-->RDU as for the itinerary above.
Thanks!
May 18, 05, 2:14 pm
#11
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: None, but flying a lot more Delta these days
Posts: 706
International flights don't usually have routing rules, instead they have maximum permitted miles. Here's the rules for rdu-cph
for routing it says:
ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
for routing it says:
ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
Code:
RDUCPH-AA 18MAY05 *RULE DISPLAY* TARIFF 0001 RULE 3101
* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *
001-FARE BASIS USD NUC PTC FT GI
LLX21AP R 646.00 646.00 ADT EX AT
LLX21AP R 646.00 646.00 CNN EX AT
LLX21AP R 646.00 646.00 INS EX AT
LLX21AP/IN90 R 65.00 64.60 INF EX AT
LLX21AP R 646.00 646.00 UNN EX AT
BOOKING CODES L
FIRST TRAVEL -10APR05
SEASONS - 01NOV-16DEC FOR EACH TRIP
DEPARTURE EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR
05JAN-17MAR FOR EACH TRIP
DEPARTURE EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR>4F.R1¥SEA (
PENALTIES - CANCEL-NON REF BEFORE/AFTER DEPART
CHANGE-200.00 USD BEFORE DEPART
CHANGE-200.00 USD AFTER DEPART
FOR ALL CONDITIONS SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥PEN (
DAY/TIME - MON THRU THU ALL DAY
DEPARTURE EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR>4F.R1¥DAY (
ADV RES/TKT - RES REQ 21 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
TKTG WITHIN 3 DAYS AFTER RESERVATIONS
OR AT LEAST 21 DAYS BEFORE DEPART
WHICHEVER IS EARLIER
STANDBYS NOT PERMITTED ALL SEGMENTS
FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥ADV (
MIN STAY - RETURN FIRST SUNDAY AFTER
DEPARTURE OUTBOUND TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR
>4F.R1¥MIN (
MAX STAY - 30 DAYS BEFORE MIDNIGHT AFTER
DEPARTURE FROM ORIGIN >4F.R1¥MAX (
BLACKOUTS - NO RESTRICTION
SURCHARGES - 35.00 USD MISC/OTHER PER DIRECTION
TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR
35.00 USD FUEL PER DIRECTION
TRANSPACIFIC SECTOR >4F.R1¥SUR (
STOPOVERS - NOT PERMITTED DEPARTURE FROM ORIGIN>4F.R1¥STO (
TRANSFERS - 4 INTERLINE PERMITTED OUTBOUND 2
INBOUND 2 FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE
UNLIMITED ONLINE PERMITTED >4F.R1¥TRA (
FLT APPLIC - MUST NOT BE VIA ANY AF FLIGHT >4F.R1¥FLT (
CHILD DISC - INF UNDER 2 YRS 90 PCT NO SEAT >4F.R1¥CHD (
OTHER DISC - NONE
COMBINABLTY - SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥COM (
ELIGIBILITY - NO RESTRICTION
ACCOM PSGR - NO RESTRICTION
TRVL RESTR - NO RESTRICTION
SALES RESTR - TKT ON/AFTER 03APR04
TKT BY PTA PTA-TKT PERMITTED >4F.R1¥SLS (
NEGOTIATED - NO RESTRICTION
TKT ENDORSE - ORIGINAL/REISSUED TKT -
NONREF/CHG FEE APPLIES MUST APPEAR IN
ENDORSEMENT BOX ORIGINAL/REISSUED TKT -
NO VALUE AFTER FLT TIME MUST APPEAR IN
ENDORSEMENT BOX
FURTHER RESTR APPLY SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥END (
APPLICATION - SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥APL (
TOUR DISC - SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥TCD (
AGENT DISC - SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥AGT (
MISC TAGS - SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥MIS (
MPM - AT 5128 VIA NORTH ATLANTIC
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - XAN - APEX NONREFUNDABLE
PFCS MAY VARY BY RTG
ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
APPLICATION - SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥APL (
TOUR DISC - SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥TCD (
AGENT DISC - SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥AGT (
MISC TAGS - SEE TEXT RULE >4F.R1¥MIS (
MPM - AT 5128 VIA NORTH ATLANTIC
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - XAN - APEX NONREFUNDABLE
PFCS MAY VARY BY RTG
ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
>4F.R1 ( >4F.R1¥BRI ( >4F.R1¥TKT ( >4F.R1¥ALL (
>4F.R1¥MENU ( >4F* (
May 18, 05, 2:54 pm
#12
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ATL, BER
Programs: AA LTGLD, DL PLT, SPG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 474
newbie exploring fare rules
Oh I see, no wonder I didn't find airport codes in the routing...
So
"ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
MPM - AT 5128 VIA NORTH"
means I can have at most 5128 miles on the international segment? Or is that total miles?
and
"TRANSFERS - 4 INTERLINE PERMITTED OUTBOUND 2
INBOUND 2 FURTHER RESTR APPLY
UNLIMITED ONLINE PERMITTED"
means I can transfer as much as I want with the given airline (so I could do RDU-DFW-MIA-Europe?). The latter doesn't would be nice from a MR perspective but doesn't sound like they would allow that...
So
"ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
MPM - AT 5128 VIA NORTH"
means I can have at most 5128 miles on the international segment? Or is that total miles?
and
"TRANSFERS - 4 INTERLINE PERMITTED OUTBOUND 2
INBOUND 2 FURTHER RESTR APPLY
UNLIMITED ONLINE PERMITTED"
means I can transfer as much as I want with the given airline (so I could do RDU-DFW-MIA-Europe?). The latter doesn't would be nice from a MR perspective but doesn't sound like they would allow that...
May 18, 05, 3:29 pm
#13
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PVD
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 1,290
Originally Posted by dukieee
"ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
MPM - AT 5128 VIA NORTH"
means I can have at most 5128 miles on the international segment? Or is that total miles?
MPM - AT 5128 VIA NORTH"
means I can have at most 5128 miles on the international segment? Or is that total miles?
Background on this can be found on these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=363332
http://web.archive.org/web/200212270...ML/002300.html
Originally Posted by dukieee
"TRANSFERS - 4 INTERLINE PERMITTED OUTBOUND 2
INBOUND 2 FURTHER RESTR APPLY
UNLIMITED ONLINE PERMITTED"
means I can transfer as much as I want with the given airline (so I could do RDU-DFW-MIA-Europe?). The latter doesn't would be nice from a MR perspective but doesn't sound like they would allow that...
INBOUND 2 FURTHER RESTR APPLY
UNLIMITED ONLINE PERMITTED"
means I can transfer as much as I want with the given airline (so I could do RDU-DFW-MIA-Europe?). The latter doesn't would be nice from a MR perspective but doesn't sound like they would allow that...
