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UA, USA to China OJ from $303 ai

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Old Jul 5, 2017, 8:33 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: wolfpacktrojan
Transportation options from HGH to Hangzhou city center or PVG. Please add your name and your itinerary if you are interested in meeting other fellow FTers.
1) Taxi to Hangzhou city center, about 100 RMB ($15) for the entire party, not per person, walking from international terminal to domestic terminal (i.e., right turn after you get outside of the international terminal building), you will see taxi queue.
2) Shuttle bus, 20 RMB ($3), to Wulinmen CAAC Ticket Office or East Railway Station Line (two most popular options). The waiting hall for the shuttle bus is at Gate 10 (you can purchase ticket at Gate 14, too) Arrival Hall, on the first floor of the terminal building. Further details, see https://www.travelchinaguide.com/cit...ation.htm#hang
3) Shuttle from Hangzhou city center to PVG, 110 RMB, 3.5 hours: a) Wulinmen Ticket Office Central Hangzhou to PVG: (5:30, 6:10, 7:00, 8:00, 9:00, 10:00, 11:00, 12:00, 13:00, 14:00, 15:00, 16:00, 17:00)
b) Hangzhou Dragon Sports Center to PVG, 110 RMB, (7:00, 8:30, 10:30, 12:30, 14:30, 16:00
). Further details, see https://traveladept.com/bus-pudong-hangzhou/
4) Train from Hangzhou East station to Shanghai Hongqiao; less than 100 RMB (~1 hr); then you can take Subway Line #2 to PVG, ~10 RMB and 2 hrs; or shuttle bus (Airport Line #1), about 1 hr, 30 RMB ($4.5), every 15 - 25 minutes. The Hangzhou East ticketing windows are located on 1st Floor, EAST Area of the station. Please allow 20-30 minutes for walking to 2nd floor departure, and security check. The frequency of Hangzhou-Hongqiao trains is as good as that of subways in many US cities.
5) Getting cash at HGH The international terminal at HGH (where you arrive) only has an exchange vendor with hefty fees that is open limited hours. However, the adjacent domestic terminal has a bank ATM. To get to the entrance of the domestic terminal, exit the international terminal and keep walking right, past the taxi stand. Then enter and take the escalator to the second floor. The bank ATM will be on your left, next to the escalator.
6 Getting TWOV without issues The advice is to print out your itinerary, hotel reservation, etc., to speed up the procedure at the entry point in China. At SFO, the check-in agents were clueless, so be prepared to get there very early and fight for your boarding passes. Please read the last few pages on this thread for first-hand experiences. Good luck. There is a thread on FT for further details. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...hread-231.html

ATM To get to the entrance of the domestic terminal, exit the international terminal and keep walking right, past the taxi stand. Then enter and take the escalator to the second floor. The bank ATM will be on your left, next to the escalator.

Travel information for Beijing and airport:
Beijing will have 2 hubs starting Sept 30,2019. PEK (Beijing Capital International Airport) is original main hub and will continue for Star Alliance flights and Cathay Pacific (including subsidiary Cathay Dragon Air). PKX (Beijing Daxing International Airport, will debut Sept 30, 2019)
planned for airlines of the SkyTeam alliance and One World Alliance (AA, BA, etc. except Cathay Pacific) will be relocated to the new airport. Most flyers taking advantage of this China OJ deal will continue fly through PEK. Some people who use positioning flights through Beijing using non-Star Alliance airlines need to make sure you are flying into PEK, or else need 2hr ground transportation from PKX to PEK.
PEK allows TWOV within 24hr to stay inside security zone airside. This is more convenient for immediate turn than Shanghai-PVG, which force all passengers to exit immigration and customs, then re-check in from land side, even if you have immediate turn within 24hr.

Who are going? When for outbound and inbound? Routing from major hubs:
July 2017

August 2017
Quinlanty: Aug 3, ORD-HKG-HGH; Aug 7, PVG-LAX-SFO-IAH-ORD-YYZ (see post #284 for a brief report on TWOV procedure at HGH).

September 2017
Kmxu: 1 Sept, IAD-HNL-GUM-, 3 Sept, GUM-PVG; 4 Sept, PVG-SFO-ORD
Quinlanty; Sep 1, IAD-HNL-GUM; Sept 3, GUM-PVG, Sep 4, PVG-SFO-ORD-YYZ
pushmyredbutton: Sept 1; SFO-HNL-GUM-HKG Sept 3rd: HKG-HGH, Sept 4th: PVG-SFO
X31: 8 Sept BTV-EWR-SFO-HKG-HGH; 11 Sept PVG-NRT; 12 Sept HND-SFO-IAH-EWR; 13 Sept EWR-YUL
Kmxu + 3: 9 Sept, IAD-SFO-HKG-HGH; 12 Sept, PVG-SFO-IAD
techdarko: 12 Sept, SFO-HKG; 14 Sept, HKG-HGH; 16 Sept, PVG-SFO
Quinlanty: Sep 14; SFO-HKG-HGH; Sep 18, PVG-SFO-YVR
bencanfly: Sep 14, SFO-HKG-HGH; Sep 18, PVG-SFO-IAD
tde211: Sept 17, SFO-HKG-HGH; Oct 18 - PVG-SFO-YVR
Fishleafer: Sep 20, SFO-HKG-HGH; Sep 26, PVG-SFO-YVR
X31: 21 Sept BTV-EWR-HNL-GUM-HKG; 23 Sept HKG-HGH; 25 Sept PVG-SFO-IAH-EWR; 26 Sept EWR-YUL
985X: Sept 22, LAX-SFO-HKG; Sept 23, HKG-HGH; Sept 25, PVG-LAX; Sept 26, LAX-YVR
flyingstudent: Sept 23: SFO-HGH
netoreisinger: 30 Sept, BOS-EWR-HKG-HGH; 4 Oct, PVG-SFO-ORD-YUL

October 2017
gba: Oct 22, SFO-HKG-HGH; Oct 29: PVG-NRT-SEA-YVR
beyounged: Oct 24, SAN-SFO-HKG, Oct 26, HKG-HGH, Nov 8, PVG-HND-YVR
as219: Oct 26, LGA-ORD-HKG (+1); Oct 30: HKG-SFO-EWR-YUL (+1)
X31: 26 Oct BTV-ORD-HKG; 28 Oct HKG-HGH; 30 Oct PVG-SFO; 31 Oct SFO-ORD-YUL
riphamilton +1: Oct 27, BOS-EWR-HNL-GUM-HKG (+1); Oct 30: HKG-GUM-NRT; Oct 31: NRT-ORD-YUL

November 2017
Quinlanty: Nov 3, BOS-EWR-HKG-HGH; Nov 6, HGH-SFO-IAH-ORD-YYZ
pushmyredbutton: Nov 19: BDL-ORD-HKG-HGH, Nov 27 HGH HKG-SFO-(YVR)
Davistev: Nov26, LAX-NRT-PVG

December 2017
Kmxu: Dec 1, IAH-HNL-GUM-HKG; Dec 3, HKG-HGH, Dec 4, PVG-SFO-IAD
X31: Dec 1, YUL-IAD-IAH; Dec 2, IAH-LAX-PVG; Dec 4, HGH-HKG-GUM-HNL; Dec 4, HNL-EWR-BTV.

January 2018
Kewldude21: Jan 14 IAH-EWR-HKG Jan 16 HKG-HGH Jan 22 PVG-SFO-IAH
mpiotrow: Jan 21, ORD-SFO-KIX; Jan 23, KIX-HGH; Jan 24, HGH-HKG-GUM-HNL-DEN-YYZ

February 2018

March 2018
Davistev: Mar03, PVG-SFO-YVR
flyer777lr: Mar 20, DEN-HNL-GUM; Mar 23, GUM-KIX (NH)-HGH; Mar 26, HGH-HKG-GUM-HNL; Mar 27, HNL-EWR-YYZ
Kewldude21: Mar 22 IAH-EWR-HKG Mar 24 HKG-HGH Mar 28 HGH-PEK-SFO-IAH
flyme2: Mar 28, BTV-ORD-HKG; Mar 29: HKG-HGH; Apr 17: HKG-EWR-YUL
JetSetDave: Mar 29, EUG-SFO-HKG-HGH; April 3, PVG-SFO-EUG
Coeur 05: March 31, bos-sfo-hkg-pvg; April 5, PVG-lax-ord-yow

April 2018
ttyl: Apr 01 BTV-IAD-EWR-HKG; Apr 02 HKG-HGH; Apr 04 PVG-SFO-IAD-LGA-YUL
Toronto1970: April 6, EWR-ORD-HKG-HGH; April 13, CTU-SFO-EWR-YYZ
Exiled in Express: April 18, ORD-HKG-HGH; April 30, WUH-NRT-SEA-YVR
X31: Apr. 28 : BTV-EWR-HKG-HGH; May 1st : PVG-KIX; May 15th : ITM-HND-YVR-YYJ

May 2018
Kewldude21: May 3 IAH-SFO-HKG May 13 PEK-SFO-IAH

October 2018
KMXU, Oct. 18, IAD-SFO-HKG-HGH, Oct. 25, PVG-SFO-IAD

November 2018
KMXU, Nov. 14, ORD-HKG-XIY, Nov. 19, PEK-ORD

September 2019
xinliz Sept 4 SFO-NRT-PVG Sept 25 PEK-EWR-YOW
Flying Machine Sept 9 LAX-SFO-HKG Sept 10 HKG-HGH Sept 16 PVG-SFO-IAD

October 2019
kmxu: Oct 26, IAH-HNL-GUM-HKG, Oct. 27, HKG-XIY, Oct 30, CTU-SFO-IAH
wolfpacktrojan: Oct. 26, EWR-SFO-PVG, Oct. 28, PVG-NRT-SFO-YVR

November 2019
kmxuand his colleague: Nov 9, IAD-PEK, Nov 12, PEK-NRT-HNL-SFO-YYZ
kmxu's colleague: Nov 13, YYZ-IAD-NRT-PEK, Nov. 16, PEK-ORD
kmxu: Nov. 20, IAD-NRT-PEK, Nov. 22, PEK-EWR-YYZ
kmxu: Nov. 23, YYZ-IAD-NRT-PEK, Nov. 26, PEK-ORD
aquanine Nov 28: LAX-SFO-KIX, Nov 30: KIX-PEK, Dec 2: PEK-SFO-YVR

December 2019
kmxu: Nov. 30, IAD-NRT-PEK, Dec. 2, PEK-ORD-YYZ
kmxu: Dec. 3, YYZ-IAD-NRT-PEK, Dec. 6, PEK-ORD
jskang Dec 5, EWR-PVG, Dec 8, PEK-NRT-IAD-YOW

January 2020


February 2020


March 2020

April 2020
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UA, USA to China OJ from $303 ai

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Old Aug 4, 2017, 5:54 pm
  #286  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: YVR/LAX/PVG/TPE
Posts: 759
The tix I found goes in G and S class, and according to wheretocredit it earns 100% only on...SQ??? what would push me closer to higher *A status than crediting SQ? oh also if you try and do SHA-HND-YVR, you can potentially get NH's flight leaving from SHA(Shanghai Hongqiao) instead of PVG, and guess what the high speed train station is called... Hongqiao! so it is much easier, hope this helps someone
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Old Aug 4, 2017, 6:07 pm
  #287  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ORF, RIC
Programs: UA LT 1K, 3 MM; Marriott Titanium; IHG Platinum
Posts: 6,958
Originally Posted by beyounged
The tix I found goes in G and S class, and according to wheretocredit it earns 100% only on...SQ??? what would push me closer to higher *A status than crediting SQ? oh also if you try and do SHA-HND-YVR, you can potentially get NH's flight leaving from SHA(Shanghai Hongqiao) instead of PVG, and guess what the high speed train station is called... Hongqiao! so it is much easier, hope this helps someone
It is about 10 min walk from the train station to SHA; you just walk indoor by following the sign to airport.

The SQ 100% RDM is correct; you can check that discussions a few pages back.
Kmxu is offline  
Old Aug 4, 2017, 6:08 pm
  #288  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SJC / DPS
Programs: AS G75K, UA Silver
Posts: 1,757
Originally Posted by beyounged
The tix I found goes in G and S class, and according to wheretocredit it earns 100% only on...SQ??? what would push me closer to higher *A status than crediting SQ? oh also if you try and do SHA-HND-YVR, you can potentially get NH's flight leaving from SHA(Shanghai Hongqiao) instead of PVG, and guess what the high speed train station is called... Hongqiao! so it is much easier, hope this helps someone
Yes, the NH option back to YVR is great, if you actually want and plan to go to YVR I saw that pop up, but didn't notice it was from SHA, but that's fantastic since it shaves 2 hours off the slog to PVG.

Originally Posted by Kmxu
The SQ 100% RDM is correct; you can check that discussions a few pages back.
Did we ever figure out if the UA G fares earned elite miles on SQ? @:-) I'm not willing to take that gamble...
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Old Aug 4, 2017, 6:50 pm
  #289  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K 0.7MM (trying to get to 1MM!)
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by beyounged
The tix I found goes in G and S class, and according to wheretocredit it earns 100% only on...SQ??? what would push me closer to higher *A status than crediting SQ? oh also if you try and do SHA-HND-YVR, you can potentially get NH's flight leaving from SHA(Shanghai Hongqiao) instead of PVG, and guess what the high speed train station is called... Hongqiao! so it is much easier, hope this helps someone
I apologize in advance if I've misinterpreted your question, but are you talking about EQM (status miles), or RDM (award miles)? If EQM (which is what I'm guessing, since you mentioned *A Status), then purchasing from UA and crediting UA will give you 100% of the miles flown (you can use milecalc.com to get a general idea of the miles you will earn for your itinerary). If you're talking RDM (which has nothing to do with your *A status), then the flights will only credit miles based on your base fare times your multiplication factor (5 for general member, 7 for silver, 8 for gold, 9 for platinum, or 11 for 1K).
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Old Aug 4, 2017, 7:02 pm
  #290  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: YVR/LAX/PVG/TPE
Posts: 759
Originally Posted by mpiotrow
I apologize in advance if I've misinterpreted your question, but are you talking about EQM (status miles), or RDM (award miles)? If EQM (which is what I'm guessing, since you mentioned *A Status), then purchasing from UA and crediting UA will give you 100% of the miles flown (you can use milecalc.com to get a general idea of the miles you will earn for your itinerary). If you're talking RDM (which has nothing to do with your *A status), then the flights will only credit miles based on your base fare times your multiplication factor (5 for general member, 7 for silver, 8 for gold, 9 for platinum, or 11 for 1K).
oh no, it is my fault for not phrasing the questions correctly. I am just curious as I am interested in what 2 rt with this deal can get me. One hand RDM sounds sweet on SQ (though I have very limited knowledge of that), and since I can get a UA account outside USA I can bypass the EQD requirement, so crediting UA will be a good idea for EQM but not RDM, since it nets <1500 RDM lol. So I am thinking out loud whether if there is one that is a compromise on both sides, maybe can net me a silver *A with more than 1500 RDM.
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Old Aug 5, 2017, 7:01 am
  #291  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: LAX
Programs: MVP100K, A-list, Marriott/IHG Plat, CHP525 Ticket Plat, CHP Solo Carpool 100K, Costco EXP, Tinder 1K
Posts: 820
Originally Posted by Kmxu
It is about 10 min walk from the train station to SHA; you just walk indoor by following the sign to airport.

The SQ 100% RDM is correct; you can check that discussions a few pages back.
Not really. Native Shanghainese here. All Int'l flights in SHA leave from terminal 1, which is across the other side of runway, impossible to walk there. Once you get off the high-speed train, follow the signs to metro line 10, take two stations to Hongqiao Airport Terminal 1 (not terminal 2), get off the train, and follow the signs to enter terminal 1. Line 10 departs every 10 minutes.
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Old Aug 5, 2017, 10:04 am
  #292  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: YVR/LAX/PVG/TPE
Posts: 759
Originally Posted by 985X
Not really. Native Shanghainese here. All Int'l flights in SHA leave from terminal 1, which is across the other side of runway, impossible to walk there. Once you get off the high-speed train, follow the signs to metro line 10, take two stations to Hongqiao Airport Terminal 1 (not terminal 2), get off the train, and follow the signs to enter terminal 1. Line 10 departs every 10 minutes.
yep, as a Shanghainese living 15 min from Hongqiao, last time I checked the sign just directed you to take line 10 I believe. But it is seriously not as big of a hussle as Pudong, which is either 2hr metro ride with a change at Guanglan/Tangzhen, or the airport bus which could be heavily affected by the rush hour.
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Old Aug 5, 2017, 8:36 pm
  #293  
X31
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: YUL
Posts: 61
Thumbs up

First post here, been lurking for a long time! Thanks for this wonderful deal.
I was able to book two trips for dirt cheap, so it's my turn to share if anybody is interested :

[09/07 @ 09/13] BTV-EWR-SFO-HKG-HGH / PVG-NRT (on NH) / HND-SFO-IAH-EWR (overnight)-YUL

https://goo.gl/flights/ZowZ

This one I got for 290 USD and it's still at the same price as I'm posting this. I really had to spend some time to find a way to fly NH and spend a night in Tokyo at this price, and I went through IAH just for the fun of flying three 787s in a row (PVG-NRT / HND-SFO / SFO-IAH). I think you still can book this with HNL/GUM stops for extra flights/miles.

[10/25 @ 10/31] BTV-ORD-HKG (one day layover)-HGH / PVG-SFO (one day layover)-ORD-YUL

https://goo.gl/flights/Hh5E

Had this one for 270 USD. Originally was scheduled on HGH-SFO flight, but since it was cancelled, I argued to fly out of PVG instead and keep a day in SFO. Price has gone up since.

I can't edit the wiki as I'm new here, but if someone wants to update it with my flights, I'm okay with it!
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Old Aug 5, 2017, 9:02 pm
  #294  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SJC / DPS
Programs: AS G75K, UA Silver
Posts: 1,757
Originally Posted by X31
First post here, been lurking for a long time! Thanks for this wonderful deal.
I was able to book two trips for dirt cheap, so it's my turn to share if anybody is interested :

[09/07 @ 09/13] BTV-EWR-SFO-HKG-HGH / PVG-NRT (on NH) / HND-SFO-IAH-EWR (overnight)-YUL

https://goo.gl/flights/ZowZ

This one I got for 290 USD and it's still at the same price as I'm posting this. I really had to spend some time to find a way to fly NH and spend a night in Tokyo at this price, and I went through IAH just for the fun of flying three 787s in a row (PVG-NRT / HND-SFO / SFO-IAH). I think you still can book this with HNL/GUM stops for extra flights/miles.

[10/25 @ 10/31] BTV-ORD-HKG (one day layover)-HGH / PVG-SFO (one day layover)-ORD-YUL

https://goo.gl/flights/Hh5E

Had this one for 270 USD. Originally was scheduled on HGH-SFO flight, but since it was cancelled, I argued to fly out of PVG instead and keep a day in SFO. Price has gone up since.

I can't edit the wiki as I'm new here, but if someone wants to update it with my flights, I'm okay with it!
Welcome to Flyertalk and glad you were able to book this!
Just curious, do you have a Chinese visa? I worry that perhaps the staff in BTV won't be too familiar with the TWOV rules (you are eligible)
pushmyredbutton is offline  
Old Aug 5, 2017, 9:12 pm
  #295  
X31
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: YUL
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by pushmyredbutton
Just curious, do you have a Chinese visa? I worry that perhaps the staff in BTV won't be too familiar with the TWOV rules (you are eligible)
No Chinese visa as I read I'm eligible for TWOV, but I plan on printing some documentation and bringing it with me. Maybe I should contact the Chinese consulate here in Montreal and get some form of email confirming that?

This is not my first time in China (had to get a visa last time), but it is my first time at BTV, and I already know I'm going to get "special treatment" (I live in Canada, but I'm a French citizen, and I am sure they are going to ask a lot of questions about why I'm flying out of BTV instead of YUL...!)
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Old Aug 5, 2017, 9:31 pm
  #296  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SFO
Programs: COdbaUA Platinum 2MM
Posts: 5,532
Originally Posted by X31
I can't edit the wiki as I'm new here, but if someone wants to update it with my flights, I'm okay with it!
Welcome to FT. Updated wiki for you.
1KChinito is online now  
Old Aug 6, 2017, 8:47 am
  #297  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
Is this dead now with the cancellation of this HGH flight? I've had trouble finding anything since I started reading about this that would fit for me. Not really interested in a MR, but a week long trip to a random Chinese city appeals to me just fine. Got the visa already and I don't even need to skip a leg being based out of YVR.

I guess I'm having a hard time since I can't figure out what the "rules" are. Seems like different cities work, that the dates range pretty far, but playing with dates/cities I've come up with nothing.

Looking to travel right around Nov 19 outbound and come back about a week later. Or in late Feb lol.

I've seen the links posted and they're still working and alive, just haven't been able to find any on my own.

Last edited by drvannostren; Aug 6, 2017 at 8:53 am
drvannostren is offline  
Old Aug 6, 2017, 9:00 am
  #298  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: YVR/LAX/PVG/TPE
Posts: 759
Originally Posted by drvannostren
Is this dead now with the cancellation of this HGH flight? I've had trouble finding anything since I started reading about this that would fit for me. Not really interested in a MR, but a week long trip to a random Chinese city appeals to me just fine. Got the visa already and I don't even need to skip a leg being based out of YVR.

I guess I'm having a hard time since I can't figure out what the "rules" are. Seems like different cities work, that the dates range pretty far, but playing with dates/cities I've come up with nothing.

Looking to travel right around Nov 19 outbound and come back about a week later. Or in late Feb lol.

I've seen the links posted and they're still working and alive, just haven't been able to find any on my own.
ya know you can do it backwards, right?
https://www.google.com/flights/?f=0&...1-27;tt=m;eo=e
beyounged is offline  
Old Aug 6, 2017, 9:15 am
  #299  
X31
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: YUL
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by 1KChinito
Welcome to FT. Updated wiki for you.
Thank you!



Originally Posted by drvannostren
Is this dead now with the cancellation of this HGH flight? I've had trouble finding anything since I started reading about this that would fit for me. Not really interested in a MR, but a week long trip to a random Chinese city appeals to me just fine. Got the visa already and I don't even need to skip a leg being based out of YVR.

I guess I'm having a hard time since I can't figure out what the "rules" are. Seems like different cities work, that the dates range pretty far, but playing with dates/cities I've come up with nothing.

Looking to travel right around Nov 19 outbound and come back about a week later. Or in late Feb lol.

I've seen the links posted and they're still working and alive, just haven't been able to find any on my own.
The deal is still live even if HGH-SFO was cancelled, you just have to fly out of PVG instead. The problem for you is that the deal needs to be started in East Canada/some select cities in the US to be the cheapest. If you are willing/able to position from YVR to SFO, you can have this :

https://goo.gl/flights/nr6w
Week in HGH/PVG, starting on Nov. 20. You do need a visa. 259 USD or 328 CAD right now.
You can also start this one at BTV but the positionning will be more expensive. Feel free to fiddle with the starting city to see what you can do.

And you would be lucky enough to fly the two return legs on NH, with some time to spare in Tokyo
X31 is offline  
Old Aug 6, 2017, 10:09 am
  #300  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
Originally Posted by beyounged
ya know you can do it backwards, right?
https://www.google.com/flights/?f=0&...1-27;tt=m;eo=e
Haha...no I did not know this.

I did finally stumble upon a good deal, sadly not out of SEA, but even if I spent $200 on a flight to SFO I'd still be under $600 CAD, plus I'd save on the gas and parking at SEA.

My only other concern/greediness was that I've already visited PVG, recently in fact and while cool I don't think I need to spend a week there, or at HGH, I was kinda hoping I might be able to do CTU.

Also there's a deal for YVR employees currently to fly JD $99 CAD return, confirmed to HGH or TAO, so I'd forego the miles, but fly basically free and get to try a new airline, albeit probably a crappy one.

Thanks for the link!
drvannostren is offline  


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