Feb 24, 2015, 12:18 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
CLE - Impact of other airlines (gates, routes, equipment, & etc) after UA De-Hubbing
Dec 31, 2018, 4:09 pm
#1921
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago, IL, US
Posts: 2,210
Cleveland in the summer - not so much
CO ran the route when CLE was a hub. It was a reasonable connection point for those going to the midwest to avoid EWR. Now that it isn't, CLE-LON makes little sense on an O/D basis, which is all you would have.
Dec 31, 2018, 4:27 pm
#1922
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
Connecting pax notwithstanding, CLE under CO/SkyTeam was a reasonable O/D point to EU. But every attempt to make a go of it was inevitable met with indifference and ingratitude. We who are not suffer.
Jan 1, 2019, 6:54 am
#1923
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,122
Up until about 10 years ago, LHR was a "controlled" airport of some sorts the result of which meant CO had no access to LHR. That's why their flights all went to LGW. When LHR opened up, they quite naturally moved all of their operations from LGW to LHR (where most everyone wanted to go anyway). However, LHR, unlike LGW, was slot controlled and CO decided not to use one of those precious slots for a flight from CLE (other than for less than a year). That's the real reason they discontinued Cleveland - London service.
Hopefully, someone working at CLE knows the annual O/D traffic between Cleveland and London thought that may be giving them too much credit. Regardless, there's no natural carrier for the route. UA is the dominant carrier in CLE though it's no longer a hub. Star Alliance has no hub at LHR which is dominated by OneWorld (but is only #2 or #3 at CLE). If BA can't make service to PIT viable where OW (AA) dominates then why would they bother with CLE?
Hopefully, someone working at CLE knows the annual O/D traffic between Cleveland and London thought that may be giving them too much credit. Regardless, there's no natural carrier for the route. UA is the dominant carrier in CLE though it's no longer a hub. Star Alliance has no hub at LHR which is dominated by OneWorld (but is only #2 or #3 at CLE). If BA can't make service to PIT viable where OW (AA) dominates then why would they bother with CLE?
Last edited by JimInOhio; Jan 1, 2019 at 7:10 am
Jan 1, 2019, 8:52 am
#1925
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CLE, DCA, and 30k feet
Programs: Honors LT Diamond; United 1K; Hertz PC
Posts: 4,162
Jan 1, 2019, 10:46 am
#1926
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago, IL, US
Posts: 2,210
Why would you think CLE-LON would work on O/D? The only US metros similar in size to Cleveland that have London flights are either big leisure destinations (MSY, LAS, the aforementioned CHS on a seasonal basis) or big tech hubs (AUS, RDU).
Jan 1, 2019, 2:41 pm
#1927
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA, UA Silver, Hilton Gold
Posts: 772
There are also BNA and soon to be PIT. Not to mention DL's service to CDG from both CVG and IND.
Jan 1, 2019, 2:46 pm
#1928
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
I'm not saying any EU city would work. Indeed, I'm suggesting quite the opposite, that homebody Clevelanders disdain international travel. I support my thesis by pointing to squandered opportunities of yore.
Jan 1, 2019, 3:16 pm
#1929
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,122
Jan 1, 2019, 4:11 pm
#1930
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CLE, DCA, and 30k feet
Programs: Honors LT Diamond; United 1K; Hertz PC
Posts: 4,162
I think the systematic problem with INTL from Cleveland is that there's not an industry that drives a lot of single-market O&D -- the closest I've come from personal observation is Goodyear seems to send a lot of people to/from FRA/MUC, which means people are going to need to connect on one end or the other anyway and connecting via a US gateway city gives me the most flexibility (e.g. when CO was running LGW/LHR that was at best 1 flight a day right? Vs. what -- 30? 40? for any US city-LHR)
I vote for a nonstop CLE-ULN. That was a real chore with the double-connection CLE-ORD-PEK-ULN. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if there was a decent O&D count for CLE-AUH(/DXB?) + onward connections but not enough to support the capacity required for an aircraft (currently) capable of making the flight.
It is interesting looking at the GSA City Pair program contracted cities for 2019 -- the majority are domestic awards -- and of course only capture US government travelers on official travel but from CLE the following have been awarded:
CLE-BRE (Bermen, Germany) on DL @ 84 annual travelers,
CLE-GUM (Guam) on DL @ 164 travelers,
CLE-OKA (Okinawa, Japan) on UA @ 133 travelers,
CLE-FRA (Frankfurt, Germany) on DL @ 67 travelers
CLE-GVA (Geneva, Switzerland) on UA @ 43 travelers,
CLE-LON (London, UK) on UA @ 60 travelers,
CLE-PAR (Paris, France) on UA @ 44 travelers,
CLE-SEL (Seoul, Korea) on UA @ 43 travelers,
CLE-TYO (Tokyo, Japan) on DL @ 172 travelers
CLE-BUH (Bucharest, Romania) on UA @ 48 travelers
So even among our government travelers it's more of a shotgun spread than a laser focus that would make a nonstop flight viable.
Jan 3, 2019, 12:42 am
#1932
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TOA
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott LTPP/Platinum Premier, Hyatt Lame-ist, UA !K
Posts: 20,061
Jan 3, 2019, 6:12 am
#1933
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,122
Jan 5, 2019, 11:51 pm
#1934
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: UA,WN,AA,DL, B6
Posts: 4,168
Up until about 10 years ago, LHR was a "controlled" airport of some sorts the result of which meant CO had no access to LHR. That's why their flights all went to LGW. When LHR opened up, they quite naturally moved all of their operations from LGW to LHR (where most everyone wanted to go anyway). However, LHR, unlike LGW, was slot controlled and CO decided not to use one of those precious slots for a flight from CLE (other than for less than a year). That's the real reason they discontinued Cleveland - London service.
Hopefully, someone working at CLE knows the annual O/D traffic between Cleveland and London thought that may be giving them too much credit. Regardless, there's no natural carrier for the route. UA is the dominant carrier in CLE though it's no longer a hub. Star Alliance has no hub at LHR which is dominated by OneWorld (but is only #2 or #3 at CLE). If BA can't make service to PIT viable where OW (AA) dominates then why would they bother with CLE?
Hopefully, someone working at CLE knows the annual O/D traffic between Cleveland and London thought that may be giving them too much credit. Regardless, there's no natural carrier for the route. UA is the dominant carrier in CLE though it's no longer a hub. Star Alliance has no hub at LHR which is dominated by OneWorld (but is only #2 or #3 at CLE). If BA can't make service to PIT viable where OW (AA) dominates then why would they bother with CLE?
Cleveland is a huge medical base with The Cleveland Clinic and several others. They are building a Clinic in London. Maybe they can help subsidize the route. Delta still offers year round daily Cincinnati-Paris how do they fill all the seats as little traffic feed.
The traffic pattern for the most part into the airport is the same as it was in the 1960’s excluding the I480 connector. The master plan 20-30 years ago should have rebuilt the entire airport terminal in another location. City leaders who run the airport should have bought the IX Center and built it there. The new convention center downtown can accommodate most of the events held there. Thanks
Agree completely.
I'm heading to CLE tonight and the rental car situation is awful. I tired to avoid renting a car in CLE given the facility is on the backside of nowhere, and not easy to got on/off the highway if you're not familiar with the area.
Although my favorite is the brick walls surrounding the narrow return lanes. Or the fact that as you exit the rental gates, you're immediate in a lane of on coming traffic with terrible visibility. I wonder how many accidents happen at this place?
I'm heading to CLE tonight and the rental car situation is awful. I tired to avoid renting a car in CLE given the facility is on the backside of nowhere, and not easy to got on/off the highway if you're not familiar with the area.
Although my favorite is the brick walls surrounding the narrow return lanes. Or the fact that as you exit the rental gates, you're immediate in a lane of on coming traffic with terrible visibility. I wonder how many accidents happen at this place?
The old rental car area was demolished to make room
for the D concourse which has not been used since dehubing. Can’t believe the newest
concourse sits empty. They should have either had a bridge of tunnel to the main terminal to make it more viable to use. Other cities have these off site centers
say Phoenix.
Up until about 10 years ago, LHR was a "controlled" airport of some sorts the result of which meant CO had no access to LHR. That's why their flights all went to LGW. When LHR opened up, they quite naturally moved all of their operations from LGW to LHR (where most everyone wanted to go anyway). However, LHR, unlike LGW, was slot controlled and CO decided not to use one of those precious slots for a flight from CLE (other than for less than a year). That's the real reason they discontinued Cleveland - London service.
Hopefully, someone working at CLE knows the annual O/D traffic between Cleveland and London thought that may be giving them too much credit. Regardless, there's no natural carrier for the route. UA is the dominant carrier in CLE though it's no longer a hub. Star Alliance has no hub at LHR which is dominated by OneWorld (but is only #2 or #3 at CLE). If BA can't make service to PIT viable where OW (AA) dominates then why would they bother with CLE?
Hopefully, someone working at CLE knows the annual O/D traffic between Cleveland and London thought that may be giving them too much credit. Regardless, there's no natural carrier for the route. UA is the dominant carrier in CLE though it's no longer a hub. Star Alliance has no hub at LHR which is dominated by OneWorld (but is only #2 or #3 at CLE). If BA can't make service to PIT viable where OW (AA) dominates then why would they bother with CLE?
Newark is a congested disaster. My last several flights were delayed on a clear day due to air traffic issues. I hate arriving and departing terminal A and taking the shuttle. Very long hike from A gates to day gate 135.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Jan 6, 2019 at 3:56 am Reason: merge
Jan 6, 2019, 10:35 am
#1935
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,122
Cleveland is a huge medical base with The Cleveland Clinic and several others. They are building a Clinic in London. Maybe they can help subsidize the route. Delta still offers year round daily Cincinnati-Paris how do they fill all the seats as little traffic feed.
The traffic pattern for the most part into the airport is the same as it was in the 1960’s excluding the I480 connector. The master plan 20-30 years ago should have rebuilt the entire airport terminal in another location. City leaders who run the airport should have bought the IX Center and built it there. The new convention center downtown can accommodate most of the events held there. Thanks
The old rental car area was demolished to make room
for the D concourse which has not been used since dehubing. Can’t believe the newest
concourse sits empty. They should have either had a bridge of tunnel to the main terminal to make it more viable to use. Other cities have these off site centers
say Phoenix.
Continental discontinued CLE-LHR seasonal service when CLE was still a hub. Never gave a good reason the flight operated pretty full. Paris flight only ran 4 months and they said it would not come back but in return London service switching from LGW to LHR.
Newark is a congested disaster. My last several flights were delayed on a clear day due to air traffic issues. I hate arriving and departing terminal A and taking the shuttle. Very long hike from A gates to day gate 135.
I recall CO did say why they discontinued CLE-LHR service. They had limited slots available at LHR and they were able to make more money by dedicating all the slots they had to EWR and IAH.
Delta can make CVG-CDG viable because CDG is a huge hub for SkyTeam and they are still the largest carrier at CVG by a decent margin. Far different for UA at CLE since there are no *A connection opportunities at LHR to take advantage of.