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-   -   CLE - Impact of other airlines (gates, routes, equipment, & etc) after UA De-Hubbing (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/midwest/1657720-cle-impact-other-airlines-gates-routes-equipment-etc-after-ua-de-hubbing.html)

wpr8e Feb 24, 15 12:12 pm


Originally Posted by ctownflyer (Post 24406798)
All true, except that CVG and PIT both have TATL service.

And IIRC BA has recently been cited as looking into BNA, CLE, CMH, IND, and STL for 787 service.

Still a long-shot, but far from impossible. A subsidy from any of those communities would likely make it happen. PIT continues to have seasonal DL service to CDG even after the subsidy ended.

As for PIT and CVG, those flights only work heading to a hub (AMS or CDG). The issue with UA is FRA is really the only logical option (perhaps BRU but likely not enough direct O&D demand).

The other item is DL uses the 757, which is really the only acceptable plane from CLE. I suspect that a 757 would have great difficulty making it to FRA from CLE in any reliable way.

Lastly, I would be shocked if BA went to any of those secondary markets without some strong corporate component attached. But if anyone could make these flights work would be BA from LHR.

ctownflyer Feb 24, 15 12:47 pm


Originally Posted by wpr8e (Post 24407689)
As for PIT and CVG, those flights only work heading to a hub (AMS or CDG). The issue with UA is FRA is really the only logical option (perhaps BRU but likely not enough direct O&D demand).

The other item is DL uses the 757, which is really the only acceptable plane from CLE. I suspect that a 757 would have great difficulty making it to FRA from CLE in any reliable way.

Lastly, I would be shocked if BA went to any of those secondary markets without some strong corporate component attached. But if anyone could make these flights work would be BA from LHR.

UA is obviously not adding TATL service from CLE. At least not under current UA leadership.

BA has an LHR hub and could pull it off. There is a good amount of daily Europe/Middle East traffic from CLE and BA could siphon off a good chunk of that. Though odds are it would take an initial subsidy to make it happen.

Take the stupid money being spent on the CLE facelift and use it subsidize some needed flights I say :)

entropy Feb 24, 15 1:07 pm


UA is obviously not adding TATL service from CLE. At least not under current UA leadership.
I can't imagine any UA leadership adding TATL without re-hubbing the city. And they're just not going to do that.

Frankly, absent a (stupid) subsidy, I don't see any foreign carriers opening the route.

Maybe the gulf private jets coming to the Cleveland Clinic will sell passage to make up for the reduction in oil prices ;)

As for the facelift, I think aside from a new coat of paint, the only thing the airport should be doing is paying down their debt, and rebuilding the rental car center ON the airport.

airzim Feb 24, 15 2:24 pm


Originally Posted by entropy (Post 24407971)
I can't imagine any UA leadership adding TATL without re-hubbing the city. And they're just not going to do that.

Frankly, absent a (stupid) subsidy, I don't see any foreign carriers opening the route.

Maybe the gulf private jets coming to the Cleveland Clinic will sell passage to make up for the reduction in oil prices ;)

As for the facelift, I think aside from a new coat of paint, the only thing the airport should be doing is paying down their debt, and rebuilding the rental car center ON the airport.

Agree completely.

I'm heading to CLE tonight and the rental car situation is awful. I tired to avoid renting a car in CLE given the facility is on the backside of nowhere, and not easy to got on/off the highway if you're not familiar with the area.

Although my favorite is the brick walls surrounding the narrow return lanes. Or the fact that as you exit the rental gates, you're immediate in a lane of on coming traffic with terrible visibility. I wonder how many accidents happen at this place?

ctownflyer Feb 24, 15 3:20 pm


Originally Posted by entropy (Post 24407971)
I can't imagine any UA leadership adding TATL without re-hubbing the city. And they're just not going to do that.

Obviously it wouldn't happen without a rehubbing. And that's admittedly a massive long-shot even if there was a regime change. But there is still a very UA loyal crowd in CLE and crazier things have happened.

I feel like under Bethune/Kellner the CLE business community would've been warned about a possible dehubbing before it was decided upon and things could have ended up differently.

buckeyefanflyer Feb 24, 15 3:47 pm

Agree, being my home airport only rented cars a few times. I am not a fan of off-site rental cars. FLL has the best layout, just cross the street although you are really not allowed to do that. Was at MIA last week, now it's on site but what a long hike.

entropy Feb 24, 15 4:15 pm


Obviously it wouldn't happen without a rehubbing. And that's admittedly a massive long-shot even if there was a regime change. But there is still a very UA loyal crowd in CLE and crazier things have happened.

I feel like under Bethune/Kellner the CLE business community would've been warned about a possible dehubbing before it was decided upon and things could have ended up differently.
CLE had the strongest O/D % in the system ; but the powers that be decided they wanted to kill the hub, I don't know what the real reason is (most likely they had to deal with the regional pilot shortage and needed a big block of 145's to kill), but from everything I've heard, the hub was performing well financially.

At the end of the day, the added competition on many routes and choice is a positive for the O/D flyers. And despite the loss of a number of small routes, the biggest ones still have nonstop service on a much higher % of mainline both on UA and OALs.

For me personally, the de-hub is a big loss, its a bigger pain in the butt to do YYZ-CLE, but then again, the drive isn't so bad when the weather is ok.

coplatua1k Feb 28, 15 7:12 am

If the perimeter rule at LGA is lifted watch those UA slots go to SFO and LAX.

Madone59 Feb 28, 15 10:27 am


Originally Posted by buckeyefanflyer (Post 24408879)
Agree, being my home airport only rented cars a few times. I am not a fan of off-site rental cars. FLL has the best layout, just cross the street although you are really not allowed to do that. Was at MIA last week, now it's on site but what a long hike.

MIA is such a hike!

weirdlyndon Mar 1, 15 4:39 pm


Originally Posted by coplatua1k (Post 24429661)
If the perimeter rule at LGA is lifted watch those UA slots go to SFO and LAX.

Highly doubt that.

mahasamatman Mar 1, 15 5:12 pm

Speaking to the numbers above, raw population is almost irrelevant when determining the "value" of a location. You need to look at how many of those people can afford to and are likely to travel - in such a depressed area, the numbers wlll be a lot lower than other less populated areas. And you also need to figure out how many people actually want to go there. Face it, Cleveland is not where it's at. There's a reason I rejected a full scholarship to Case Western.

buckeyefanflyer Mar 2, 15 3:40 pm

The New York Times and LA Times put Cleveland as one of the top places to visit in 2015. Lots a good things going on these days.

RNE Mar 2, 15 4:07 pm


Originally Posted by buckeyefanflyer (Post 24442687)
Lots a good things going on these days.

I admire your stick-to-itiveness, but the more one hears "things are good," the more one suspects they are not.

Kazarko Mar 2, 15 4:38 pm

Issues with the city itself aside, the airport dining options at CLE is almost non existent after 8:30pm. Only the Dunkin Doughnuts is open after 8:30pm! Also several locations including the airspace lounge closes around 7:30pm. With weather related delays, this is horrible if you are stuck at the airport after that time and have only one food option available in the entire airport. So if you are connecting at CLE late at night, you might want to bring your own food. The shopping vendors except the automated vending machines have similar hours so there is nothing to buy late at night.

buckeyefanflyer Mar 3, 15 1:51 am

I think you will find that similar situation at non hub airports. There are very few departures after 8:00PM so why would they keep the concessions open since those awaiting arrivals have no access to the main part of the airport.


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