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CLE - Impact of other airlines (gates, routes, equipment, & etc) after UA De-Hubbing

CLE - Impact of other airlines (gates, routes, equipment, & etc) after UA De-Hubbing

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Old Nov 20, 15, 12:27 am
  #391  
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Loads at CLE in the 70's were in the 50-60% range, no where near where they were in CLE during the CO days. The population and corporate HQ numbers were far greater as well. After years of Voinovich, Stokes, White, Oakar, Tubbs and lets not forget Russo and Dimora we are left with a shell of a downtown and fewer businesses and people to fill the planes and the city. Oh yes and the infamous Kucinich, all played their hand in the destruction of the city. Yet re-elected time and time again as the city decayed. For anyone that mentions the reborn flats, half a block on East 4th, or West 6th it will fall again as it did the last time.
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Old Nov 20, 15, 1:50 am
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One difference you need to take into consideration is downtowns growing population now exceeds 13,000 and excepts to continue to grow. Lots of new downtown housing on the works, new hotels and new restaurants and retail. All this can do is help to make sure it will not fall again.
As far as UA is concerned CLE still has more flights then any non hub airport and I find it interesting they continue to fly to destinations that has other competition. In particular BOS, LGA, LAS, MCO and now FLL and RSW seasonal.
Lets face it the airlines seem to want there hubs in the huge population markets
and with consolidation there are less of them. ATL,ORD, EWR,IAD,JFK,LAX,SFO,DTW,
and DFW. Not sure about SLC.
Somewhat less of the extent PHL,IAH, DEN, and CLT. DL continues to cut at CVG and PIT,STL, and MEM lost the hubs for the population scenario.
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Old Nov 22, 15, 12:16 pm
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Originally Posted by buckeyefanflyer View Post
As far as UA is concerned CLE still has more flights then any non hub airport and I find it interesting they continue to fly to destinations that has other competition.
UA still has huge fixed facilities costs at CLE. I think they brought back a couple of Florida destinations this winter because they can add a flight or two at CLE for little more than the variable cost of the seat-miles. Peak season Florida routes are easy winners.
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Old Nov 22, 15, 2:18 pm
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Just wanted to throw out there if it hasn't been mentioned but pushing back from CLE C10 today I noticed that C08 and C06 have been permanently borded up. The jet bridges are gone and there is literally plywood over where they were previously attached. Wonder where they went?
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Old Nov 22, 15, 3:35 pm
  #395  
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That's interesting. Didn't those use to be NW gates? Perhaps DL still holds the underlying lease on those or something like that.

The Florida flights aren't particularly surprising, in the winter there's sufficient local demand they can be flown profitably with the loads they anticipate. They "abandoned" CLE by killing most of the O/D RJ operation there because it was RJs. They have several other non-hub destinations from CLE (MCO, CUN, LAS, BOS, DCA, LGA, STL and MKE), some with multiple dailies, plus some seasonal leisure stuff. They do seem to think that it makes sense to keep those, its not insubstantial.

Last edited by entropy; Nov 22, 15 at 6:31 pm Reason: forgot some destinations
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Old Nov 22, 15, 10:46 pm
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Originally Posted by RobS View Post
Peak season Florida routes are easy winners.
Sad thing is Smisek didn't understand that. Once he cut southern florida, the ULCC competition came in and stole the business. I flew CLE-RSW today and there were at least 30 empty seats. United had a lock on that route and got premium $$ for it. Now UA brought back the seasonal service and has to settle for $100 o/w instead of the $200+ they were getting previously on full flights.

It doesn't take a genius to drive around SW florida in the winter months and see Ohio license plates everywhere. Or simply ask any RE agent...
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Old Nov 25, 15, 7:08 am
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I finally took a look at the newest airport master plan... the last one I looked at was from 2012, I think. What a difference, now that there is no longer a hub operation. The new one certainly seems more realistic and able to be accomplished.

http://www.clevelandairport.com/site...er-Plan-PP.pdf
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Old Nov 25, 15, 7:17 am
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Originally Posted by paule123 View Post
Sad thing is Smisek didn't understand that. Once he cut southern florida, the ULCC competition came in and stole the business. I flew CLE-RSW today and there were at least 30 empty seats. United had a lock on that route and got premium $$ for it. Now UA brought back the seasonal service and has to settle for $100 o/w instead of the $200+ they were getting previously on full flights.

It doesn't take a genius to drive around SW florida in the winter months and see Ohio license plates everywhere. Or simply ask any RE agent...
I was down in Miami recently, and there were plenty of Ohio plates down there. Plus, the Cleveland Orchestra was down there at the time, and the Browns and (who else) Johnny Manziel were topics of conversation.

It's hard to pity UA for having to settle for the lower fares. JetBlue offers an excellent product on its CLE --> FLL route.

I find it interesting though that there are still occasions where traffic is still routed through Hopkins. One of my friends in Milwaukee traveled to FLL from MKE and he was routed through Cleveland on UA for the same price as being routed through ORD (an airport he was happy to avoid).
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Old Nov 25, 15, 7:19 am
  #399  
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Originally Posted by plinth857 View Post
I finally took a look at the newest airport master plan... the last one I looked at was from 2012, I think. What a difference, now that there is no longer a hub operation. The new one certainly seems more realistic and able to be accomplished.

http://www.clevelandairport.com/site...er-Plan-PP.pdf

The new one is still in fantasy-land. They've got this new landside structure between the current ticketing area and the garage. ? Why? Who is going to pay for it? And what improvements will it yield. The Airport Authority needs to get its head out of its butt and start running the airport with some fiscal restraint and a view towards what the traveling public needs. Why do they need this new area? For 30 minutes of the day when the curb area is crowded? Do they need to expand FIS to handle more than 1 flight at a time? How often does that happen?

If they're building a big new garage, they ought to put the car rentals in there. That's something that at least the terminating passengers will benefit from on an hourly basis.
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Old Nov 25, 15, 7:44 am
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What are they going to do with Concourse D? I did not see any references to that in the master plan.
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Old Nov 25, 15, 8:51 am
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Originally Posted by plinth857 View Post
I finally took a look at the newest airport master plan... the last one I looked at was from 2012, I think. What a difference, now that there is no longer a hub operation. The new one certainly seems more realistic and able to be accomplished.

http://www.clevelandairport.com/site...er-Plan-PP.pdf
Nice find, plinth, but this plan is old. I'm guessing this plan was created in 2009 before the UA de-hubbing. There are references to "UA/CO" and projected 2009 cargo.

If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to buy you a drink at the new hotel in 2025
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Old Nov 25, 15, 9:21 am
  #402  
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The PDF was created a year ago....
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Old Nov 25, 15, 11:55 am
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Originally Posted by entropy View Post
The PDF was created a year ago....
I'd imagine they just salvaged material from their old master plan and redid some of it to reflect the dehubbing. If they hadn't done a new master plan after the dehub, that would have just been embarrassing.
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Old Nov 25, 15, 1:24 pm
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UA has reduced the BOS flights through early April from 5 to 3. Will the extra flights really come back in April, or have they simply not updated the schedule that far out?
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Old Nov 25, 15, 2:53 pm
  #405  
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They cut the BOS flights in winter annually. Used to be four (post cuts) they added five when B6 arrived, I'd venture to guess they will add in the spring but since they are condensing gates three might be all we get.

Why does everyone cry for the car rental? Its bad but so is ORD, EWR, ABQ, PHX, PVD just to name a few.
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