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CLE - Impact of other airlines (gates, routes, equipment, & etc) after UA De-Hubbing

CLE - Impact of other airlines (gates, routes, equipment, & etc) after UA De-Hubbing

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Old Dec 31, 18, 4:09 pm
  #1921  
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Originally Posted by buckeyefanflyer View Post
I see British Airways is starting direct flights to Charleston SC from London seasonal a few days a week. I wounder have we been talking to them about getting service here. Hard to believe it was 1999 when Continental started CLE-LGW.
Originally Posted by RNE View Post
Why? To provide Clevelanders with yet another opportunity to squander a good thing? Wow is dead and Icelandair is on life support. Why would British Airways want to come to Hopkins (the potter's field for European airlines)?

RNE, airline coroner.
Charleston in the summer - common vacation destination
Cleveland in the summer - not so much

CO ran the route when CLE was a hub. It was a reasonable connection point for those going to the midwest to avoid EWR. Now that it isn't, CLE-LON makes little sense on an O/D basis, which is all you would have.
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Old Dec 31, 18, 4:27 pm
  #1922  
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Originally Posted by glg View Post
CO ran the route when CLE was a hub. It was a reasonable connection point for those going to the midwest to avoid EWR.
Connecting pax notwithstanding, CLE under CO/SkyTeam was a reasonable O/D point to EU. But every attempt to make a go of it was inevitable met with indifference and ingratitude. We who are not suffer.
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Old Jan 1, 19, 6:54 am
  #1923  
 
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Up until about 10 years ago, LHR was a "controlled" airport of some sorts the result of which meant CO had no access to LHR. That's why their flights all went to LGW. When LHR opened up, they quite naturally moved all of their operations from LGW to LHR (where most everyone wanted to go anyway). However, LHR, unlike LGW, was slot controlled and CO decided not to use one of those precious slots for a flight from CLE (other than for less than a year). That's the real reason they discontinued Cleveland - London service.

Hopefully, someone working at CLE knows the annual O/D traffic between Cleveland and London thought that may be giving them too much credit. Regardless, there's no natural carrier for the route. UA is the dominant carrier in CLE though it's no longer a hub. Star Alliance has no hub at LHR which is dominated by OneWorld (but is only #2 or #3 at CLE). If BA can't make service to PIT viable where OW (AA) dominates then why would they bother with CLE?
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Last edited by JimInOhio; Jan 1, 19 at 7:10 am
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Old Jan 1, 19, 8:34 am
  #1924  
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What I would like to know is the percentage of INTL departures from CLE (not counting CA & MX) on any airline. Anybody got even a rough idea on that?
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Old Jan 1, 19, 8:52 am
  #1925  
 
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Originally Posted by RNE View Post
What I would like to know is the percentage of INTL departures from CLE (not counting CA & MX) on any airline. Anybody got even a rough idea on that?
The Bureau of Transportation Statistics in the DOT (https://www.transtats.bts.gov/DATABA...&Subject_ID2=0 &pn=1) is probably the closest you're going to get, but the links to the most promising-sounding data appear to be broken. and/or only apply to domestic itineraries
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Old Jan 1, 19, 10:46 am
  #1926  
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Originally Posted by RNE View Post
Connecting pax notwithstanding, CLE under CO/SkyTeam was a reasonable O/D point to EU. But every attempt to make a go of it was inevitable met with indifference and ingratitude. We who are not suffer.
Why would you think CLE-LON would work on O/D? The only US metros similar in size to Cleveland that have London flights are either big leisure destinations (MSY, LAS, the aforementioned CHS on a seasonal basis) or big tech hubs (AUS, RDU).
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Old Jan 1, 19, 2:41 pm
  #1927  
 
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Originally Posted by glg View Post
Why would you think CLE-LON would work on O/D? The only US metros similar in size to Cleveland that have London flights are either big leisure destinations (MSY, LAS, the aforementioned CHS on a seasonal basis) or big tech hubs (AUS, RDU).
There are also BNA and soon to be PIT. Not to mention DL's service to CDG from both CVG and IND.
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Old Jan 1, 19, 2:46 pm
  #1928  
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Originally Posted by glg View Post
Why would you think CLE-LON would work on O/D? The only US metros similar in size to Cleveland that have London flights are either big leisure destinations (MSY, LAS, the aforementioned CHS on a seasonal basis) or big tech hubs (AUS, RDU).
I'm not saying any EU city would work. Indeed, I'm suggesting quite the opposite, that homebody Clevelanders disdain international travel. I support my thesis by pointing to squandered opportunities of yore.
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Old Jan 1, 19, 3:16 pm
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Originally Posted by RNE View Post
I'm not saying any EU city would work. Indeed, I'm suggesting quite the opposite, that homebody Clevelanders disdain international travel. I support my thesis by pointing to squandered opportunities of yore.
You wrote above asking if there's any data on CLE originating international travel yet you think Clevelanders disdain international travel. I'm confused.
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Old Jan 1, 19, 4:11 pm
  #1930  
 
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Originally Posted by RNE View Post
I'm not saying any EU city would work. Indeed, I'm suggesting quite the opposite, that homebody Clevelanders disdain international travel. I support my thesis by pointing to squandered opportunities of yore.
I lover international travel -- but I also wouldn't sacrifice comfort and perks to fly a random airline on a small aircraft nonstop versus flying on my terms with a brief connection.

I think the systematic problem with INTL from Cleveland is that there's not an industry that drives a lot of single-market O&D -- the closest I've come from personal observation is Goodyear seems to send a lot of people to/from FRA/MUC, which means people are going to need to connect on one end or the other anyway and connecting via a US gateway city gives me the most flexibility (e.g. when CO was running LGW/LHR that was at best 1 flight a day right? Vs. what -- 30? 40? for any US city-LHR)

I vote for a nonstop CLE-ULN. That was a real chore with the double-connection CLE-ORD-PEK-ULN. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if there was a decent O&D count for CLE-AUH(/DXB?) + onward connections but not enough to support the capacity required for an aircraft (currently) capable of making the flight.

It is interesting looking at the GSA City Pair program contracted cities for 2019 -- the majority are domestic awards -- and of course only capture US government travelers on official travel but from CLE the following have been awarded:

CLE-BRE (Bermen, Germany) on DL @ 84 annual travelers,
CLE-GUM (Guam) on DL @ 164 travelers,
CLE-OKA (Okinawa, Japan) on UA @ 133 travelers,
CLE-FRA (Frankfurt, Germany) on DL @ 67 travelers
CLE-GVA (Geneva, Switzerland) on UA @ 43 travelers,
CLE-LON (London, UK) on UA @ 60 travelers,
CLE-PAR (Paris, France) on UA @ 44 travelers,
CLE-SEL (Seoul, Korea) on UA @ 43 travelers,
CLE-TYO (Tokyo, Japan) on DL @ 172 travelers
CLE-BUH (Bucharest, Romania) on UA @ 48 travelers

So even among our government travelers it's more of a shotgun spread than a laser focus that would make a nonstop flight viable.
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Old Jan 1, 19, 6:42 pm
  #1931  
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Originally Posted by JimInOhio View Post
You wrote above asking if there's any data on CLE originating international travel yet you think Clevelanders disdain international travel. I'm confused.
The data may prove me wrong.
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Old Jan 3, 19, 12:42 am
  #1932  
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FT: Passengers Poisoned by Drinking Fountains at Cleveland Airport

WFLA: Several passengers fall ill on plane flying into Tampa

Plain Dealer: Cleveland health officials try to determine what sickened six passengers on Frontier flight

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Old Jan 3, 19, 6:12 am
  #1933  
 
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Typical FT click-bait. No article I've seen uses the word "poisoned" and there's no confirmation the illnesses are linked to a drinking fountain.
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Old Jan 5, 19, 11:51 pm
  #1934  
 
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Originally Posted by JimInOhio View Post
Up until about 10 years ago, LHR was a "controlled" airport of some sorts the result of which meant CO had no access to LHR. That's why their flights all went to LGW. When LHR opened up, they quite naturally moved all of their operations from LGW to LHR (where most everyone wanted to go anyway). However, LHR, unlike LGW, was slot controlled and CO decided not to use one of those precious slots for a flight from CLE (other than for less than a year). That's the real reason they discontinued Cleveland - London service.

Hopefully, someone working at CLE knows the annual O/D traffic between Cleveland and London thought that may be giving them too much credit. Regardless, there's no natural carrier for the route. UA is the dominant carrier in CLE though it's no longer a hub. Star Alliance has no hub at LHR which is dominated by OneWorld (but is only #2 or #3 at CLE). If BA can't make service to PIT viable where OW (AA) dominates then why would they bother with CLE?

Cleveland is a huge medical base with The Cleveland Clinic and several others. They are building a Clinic in London. Maybe they can help subsidize the route. Delta still offers year round daily Cincinnati-Paris how do they fill all the seats as little traffic feed.
Originally Posted by JimInOhio View Post
This is absurd! My wife had to bring me something yesterday morning which I forgot at home. So I met her on the departures level between the center and United checkin and I don't think there was a single other car in the vicinity.

The traffic pattern for the most part into the airport is the same as it was in the 1960ís excluding the I480 connector. The master plan 20-30 years ago should have rebuilt the entire airport terminal in another location. City leaders who run the airport should have bought the IX Center and built it there. The new convention center downtown can accommodate most of the events held there. Thanks
Originally Posted by airzim View Post
Agree completely.

I'm heading to CLE tonight and the rental car situation is awful. I tired to avoid renting a car in CLE given the facility is on the backside of nowhere, and not easy to got on/off the highway if you're not familiar with the area.

Although my favorite is the brick walls surrounding the narrow return lanes. Or the fact that as you exit the rental gates, you're immediate in a lane of on coming traffic with terrible visibility. I wonder how many accidents happen at this place?

The old rental car area was demolished to make room
for the D concourse which has not been used since dehubing. Canít believe the newest
concourse sits empty. They should have either had a bridge of tunnel to the main terminal to make it more viable to use. Other cities have these off site centers
say Phoenix.
Originally Posted by JimInOhio View Post
Up until about 10 years ago, LHR was a "controlled" airport of some sorts the result of which meant CO had no access to LHR. That's why their flights all went to LGW. When LHR opened up, they quite naturally moved all of their operations from LGW to LHR (where most everyone wanted to go anyway). However, LHR, unlike LGW, was slot controlled and CO decided not to use one of those precious slots for a flight from CLE (other than for less than a year). That's the real reason they discontinued Cleveland - London service.

Hopefully, someone working at CLE knows the annual O/D traffic between Cleveland and London thought that may be giving them too much credit. Regardless, there's no natural carrier for the route. UA is the dominant carrier in CLE though it's no longer a hub. Star Alliance has no hub at LHR which is dominated by OneWorld (but is only #2 or #3 at CLE). If BA can't make service to PIT viable where OW (AA) dominates then why would they bother with CLE?
Continental discontinued CLE-LHR seasonal service when CLE was still a hub. Never gave a good reason the flight operated pretty full. Paris flight only ran 4 months and they said it would not come back but in return London service switching from LGW to LHR.

Newark is a congested disaster. My last several flights were delayed on a clear day due to air traffic issues. I hate arriving and departing terminal A and taking the shuttle. Very long hike from A gates to day gate 135.



Last edited by iluv2fly; Jan 6, 19 at 3:56 am Reason: merge
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Old Jan 6, 19, 10:35 am
  #1935  
 
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Originally Posted by buckeyefanflyer View Post



Cleveland is a huge medical base with The Cleveland Clinic and several others. They are building a Clinic in London. Maybe they can help subsidize the route. Delta still offers year round daily Cincinnati-Paris how do they fill all the seats as little traffic feed.



The traffic pattern for the most part into the airport is the same as it was in the 1960’s excluding the I480 connector. The master plan 20-30 years ago should have rebuilt the entire airport terminal in another location. City leaders who run the airport should have bought the IX Center and built it there. The new convention center downtown can accommodate most of the events held there. Thanks



The old rental car area was demolished to make room
for the D concourse which has not been used since dehubing. Can’t believe the newest
concourse sits empty. They should have either had a bridge of tunnel to the main terminal to make it more viable to use. Other cities have these off site centers
say Phoenix.


Continental discontinued CLE-LHR seasonal service when CLE was still a hub. Never gave a good reason the flight operated pretty full. Paris flight only ran 4 months and they said it would not come back but in return London service switching from LGW to LHR.

Newark is a congested disaster. My last several flights were delayed on a clear day due to air traffic issues. I hate arriving and departing terminal A and taking the shuttle. Very long hike from A gates to day gate 135.

I recall CO did say why they discontinued CLE-LHR service. They had limited slots available at LHR and they were able to make more money by dedicating all the slots they had to EWR and IAH.

Delta can make CVG-CDG viable because CDG is a huge hub for SkyTeam and they are still the largest carrier at CVG by a decent margin. Far different for UA at CLE since there are no *A connection opportunities at LHR to take advantage of.
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