Hardly the best care in the air.
Jan 8, 2008, 11:37 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI USA DL FO (until 2/04), NW silver '03, NW gold '04+'05 Plat '06+ (thanks, Leo!), DL SkyClub
Programs: DL Plat/ Million Miler, AS, Hilton, Marriott Bonvoy, Piggly Wiggly Pig Points
Posts: 2,233
Hardly the best care in the air.
Below is an excerpt from my E-mail to YX:
It is difficult to write this because I'd like to say good things but my experience on YX was certainly several notches below "best care."
Ironically I shot an E-mail to customer service over a week ago (almost two weeks now) with no response. Then there was the 32 minutes on hold [to reservations] before I got to a live person -- completely inexcusable. But I went to bed secure in the knowledge that 904 was supposedly on time the next day.
I woke up in the early morning and checked the PNR to see that 904 was now shown as delayed with no further information anywhere. Another call and "on hold" for a long time in the early morning hours only to be told the incoming flight from RSW was cancelled and they had to find another plane. No ETA on the length of the delay and not much sleep due to the lack of information and communication.
When I did get to MKE 904 was back "on time" but that's what was said. It was over a half hour late boarding and arrived late at SEA. Baggage service at SEA was slow.
In flight the condition of the plane was not good. Dirty seats, dirty floors, dirty lavatories (shoes sticking on the floors). Inoperative lights. The interior save for the leather looked like it hadn't been updated since the 1960's.
On board service was friendly but horribly slow. I was stuck in the back of the bus in a cramped seat (30A). It was more than two hours before any beverage was served -- inexcusable. (Note: no weather/turbulence issues.)
And then there was the great announcement that there was a limited quantity of buy on board food -- credit card only -- and "we might run out" with an "apology" in advance to the folks in the back of the bus.
First, an adequate amount of food should be stocked on all planes and not just one selection. Seafood allergies are not uncommon so shrimp salad needs to have a companion choice. The chicken salad pita was fairly good, BTW.
Credit card only is a pain and I kept thinking of people not as affluent as I am. What about a UM? College kids or poor people without credit cards? Shouldn't they be able to get food or a Digiplayer (even if they had to pay when booking--perhaps offering those choices when booking)? That's hardly the best care in the air. It may make some sense but hardly good customer service. Not everyone carries plastic -- nor should they.
The overhead bins had too many in-flight supplies scattered about that should have been stored in one place or elsewhere. Plus they were small and not updated.
The return flight (903) was almost as bad except that beverage service was a bit faster. That didn't make up for very slow checkin at SEA. No machines and only one person checking in a full-plane. Long line and poor service.
The GA's did allow this NW plat to board early which should be a no-brainer. (So should upgrades for your own and partner elites--but that's the least of the problems.)
Because of the schedule and routes I am seldom able to fly YX but the quality of service and, most important, the ATTITUDE, have fallen considerably no matter what award was one last year. The attitude is hardly best care and seems more "bossy" toward customers -- arrogant and condescending. I'm not speaking of individual employees but the whole tenor of "we may not have enough food for you people in back" type of thing. This is not a remark isolated to food service but a general attitude of it's our way or the highway.
I've been around the industry for a long time and have been flying for nearly 40 years. Yes, I have seen worse service (try a Skyway BE1900 MKE-GRR-YYZ "flying pencil" with no lavatory or inflight service, for example) but also much better. I've never, ever been on a NW nine that was as dirty and dingy as the YX MD's I flew on (and the NW DC-9 interiors were updated a few years ago). The MD, in fact, was one of my favorites when I was a DL medallion. And I've been in the back of the bus on AS where they still made every pax feel like first class.
I also know that things can happen but, when they do, the mark of a good business is how they respond.
. . .
Now, you're hearing this from a stockholder and someone who cares about the future of the airline. The cookies don't make up for poor service, dirty planes and bad attitudes. Yes, it's nice to have catered cuisine, but not if the availability is speculative. The age and condition of the interior of this equipment and the attitude of service had me thinking Aeroflot. Even with the good points, the overall experience was below average and that simply isn't good enough.
It is difficult to write this because I'd like to say good things but my experience on YX was certainly several notches below "best care."
Ironically I shot an E-mail to customer service over a week ago (almost two weeks now) with no response. Then there was the 32 minutes on hold [to reservations] before I got to a live person -- completely inexcusable. But I went to bed secure in the knowledge that 904 was supposedly on time the next day.
I woke up in the early morning and checked the PNR to see that 904 was now shown as delayed with no further information anywhere. Another call and "on hold" for a long time in the early morning hours only to be told the incoming flight from RSW was cancelled and they had to find another plane. No ETA on the length of the delay and not much sleep due to the lack of information and communication.
When I did get to MKE 904 was back "on time" but that's what was said. It was over a half hour late boarding and arrived late at SEA. Baggage service at SEA was slow.
In flight the condition of the plane was not good. Dirty seats, dirty floors, dirty lavatories (shoes sticking on the floors). Inoperative lights. The interior save for the leather looked like it hadn't been updated since the 1960's.
On board service was friendly but horribly slow. I was stuck in the back of the bus in a cramped seat (30A). It was more than two hours before any beverage was served -- inexcusable. (Note: no weather/turbulence issues.)
And then there was the great announcement that there was a limited quantity of buy on board food -- credit card only -- and "we might run out" with an "apology" in advance to the folks in the back of the bus.
First, an adequate amount of food should be stocked on all planes and not just one selection. Seafood allergies are not uncommon so shrimp salad needs to have a companion choice. The chicken salad pita was fairly good, BTW.
Credit card only is a pain and I kept thinking of people not as affluent as I am. What about a UM? College kids or poor people without credit cards? Shouldn't they be able to get food or a Digiplayer (even if they had to pay when booking--perhaps offering those choices when booking)? That's hardly the best care in the air. It may make some sense but hardly good customer service. Not everyone carries plastic -- nor should they.
The overhead bins had too many in-flight supplies scattered about that should have been stored in one place or elsewhere. Plus they were small and not updated.
The return flight (903) was almost as bad except that beverage service was a bit faster. That didn't make up for very slow checkin at SEA. No machines and only one person checking in a full-plane. Long line and poor service.
The GA's did allow this NW plat to board early which should be a no-brainer. (So should upgrades for your own and partner elites--but that's the least of the problems.)
Because of the schedule and routes I am seldom able to fly YX but the quality of service and, most important, the ATTITUDE, have fallen considerably no matter what award was one last year. The attitude is hardly best care and seems more "bossy" toward customers -- arrogant and condescending. I'm not speaking of individual employees but the whole tenor of "we may not have enough food for you people in back" type of thing. This is not a remark isolated to food service but a general attitude of it's our way or the highway.
I've been around the industry for a long time and have been flying for nearly 40 years. Yes, I have seen worse service (try a Skyway BE1900 MKE-GRR-YYZ "flying pencil" with no lavatory or inflight service, for example) but also much better. I've never, ever been on a NW nine that was as dirty and dingy as the YX MD's I flew on (and the NW DC-9 interiors were updated a few years ago). The MD, in fact, was one of my favorites when I was a DL medallion. And I've been in the back of the bus on AS where they still made every pax feel like first class.
I also know that things can happen but, when they do, the mark of a good business is how they respond.
. . .
Now, you're hearing this from a stockholder and someone who cares about the future of the airline. The cookies don't make up for poor service, dirty planes and bad attitudes. Yes, it's nice to have catered cuisine, but not if the availability is speculative. The age and condition of the interior of this equipment and the attitude of service had me thinking Aeroflot. Even with the good points, the overall experience was below average and that simply isn't good enough.
Last edited by Dick Ginkowski; Jan 8, 2008 at 11:43 pm Reason: Update information
Jan 8, 2008, 11:39 pm
#2
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI USA DL FO (until 2/04), NW silver '03, NW gold '04+'05 Plat '06+ (thanks, Leo!), DL SkyClub
Programs: DL Plat/ Million Miler, AS, Hilton, Marriott Bonvoy, Piggly Wiggly Pig Points
Posts: 2,233
Let me add that what's really curious is that the friendly FA's worked their buns off and the service still wasn't good -- but not their fault. Maybe if they didn't waste so much time with the credit card machine.
Jan 9, 2008, 8:35 am
#4
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,388
Running out of food is no surprise. Before they pulled the 717s out of SAT, and I was flying YX regularly, they ran out of BOB food on the MCI-DCA segment on several occasions. That shouldn't happen.
OTOH, on Christmas Day (2006), the plane overnighted at SAT, which meant no food catering (all catering, apparently, is done at MCI or MKE). The crew arranged for box lunches through the local FBO, so we all were offered food on the flight ^ .
OTOH, on Christmas Day (2006), the plane overnighted at SAT, which meant no food catering (all catering, apparently, is done at MCI or MKE). The crew arranged for box lunches through the local FBO, so we all were offered food on the flight ^ .
Jan 9, 2008, 9:03 am
#5
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: MKE
Programs: Midwest Miles, AirTran A+ Rewards
Posts: 1,445
I wonder if they had to use one of their charter planes at the time you flew that route? The MD-80 I flew to LAS had brand new leather seats in it. They still had a slight new leather smell to them. As for the BOB meals... I was in row 13 and they already ran out of one of the more expensive meals. I was bummed out and took the pretzels.
Jan 9, 2008, 9:26 am
#6
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,574
I know it sounds petty, but the consistent problems with the meals is one primary reason I don't fly YX very often. I mean consistent - as in almost every flight I've been on has meal problems. Even when I'm the lucky one and get what I want, I overhear other pax near me upset because their choice wasn't available.
Don't get me wrong...I still find myself on a few YX flights here and there. From MCI, they are convenient and cover some good nonstop routes that WN and the legacies don't. I'm really glad they're here and hope they do well with all of their MCI flights.
But the first thing I associate the YX brand with is problems with the food. Perhaps it's because of the expectations: they've built a brand around a promise of great inflight service, and when they then execute that poorly, I remember it. WN's brand is built on "We fly nonstop where you want to go - enjoy the peanuts." They never overpromise the inflight service, so people usually go away happy with their little bag of peanuts. YX clearly makes a higher promise than other airlines - they need to do a better job of delivering to that.
Don't get me wrong...I still find myself on a few YX flights here and there. From MCI, they are convenient and cover some good nonstop routes that WN and the legacies don't. I'm really glad they're here and hope they do well with all of their MCI flights.
But the first thing I associate the YX brand with is problems with the food. Perhaps it's because of the expectations: they've built a brand around a promise of great inflight service, and when they then execute that poorly, I remember it. WN's brand is built on "We fly nonstop where you want to go - enjoy the peanuts." They never overpromise the inflight service, so people usually go away happy with their little bag of peanuts. YX clearly makes a higher promise than other airlines - they need to do a better job of delivering to that.
Jan 9, 2008, 12:09 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI USA DL FO (until 2/04), NW silver '03, NW gold '04+'05 Plat '06+ (thanks, Leo!), DL SkyClub
Programs: DL Plat/ Million Miler, AS, Hilton, Marriott Bonvoy, Piggly Wiggly Pig Points
Posts: 2,233
Exactly. It wouldn't take much to clean the planes, provide efficient service and do at least as well as the other airlines. You can't cover that up with a cookie.
I know it sounds petty, but the consistent problems with the meals is one primary reason I don't fly YX very often. I mean consistent - as in almost every flight I've been on has meal problems. Even when I'm the lucky one and get what I want, I overhear other pax near me upset because their choice wasn't available.
Don't get me wrong...I still find myself on a few YX flights here and there. From MCI, they are convenient and cover some good nonstop routes that WN and the legacies don't. I'm really glad they're here and hope they do well with all of their MCI flights.
But the first thing I associate the YX brand with is problems with the food. Perhaps it's because of the expectations: they've built a brand around a promise of great inflight service, and when they then execute that poorly, I remember it. WN's brand is built on "We fly nonstop where you want to go - enjoy the peanuts." They never overpromise the inflight service, so people usually go away happy with their little bag of peanuts. YX clearly makes a higher promise than other airlines - they need to do a better job of delivering to that.
Don't get me wrong...I still find myself on a few YX flights here and there. From MCI, they are convenient and cover some good nonstop routes that WN and the legacies don't. I'm really glad they're here and hope they do well with all of their MCI flights.
But the first thing I associate the YX brand with is problems with the food. Perhaps it's because of the expectations: they've built a brand around a promise of great inflight service, and when they then execute that poorly, I remember it. WN's brand is built on "We fly nonstop where you want to go - enjoy the peanuts." They never overpromise the inflight service, so people usually go away happy with their little bag of peanuts. YX clearly makes a higher promise than other airlines - they need to do a better job of delivering to that.
Jan 10, 2008, 6:31 am
#8
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chevy Chase, MD 20815
Posts: 1,149
Interesting. I can concur on the food shortage-seems very strange after they so heavily advertise the Maders catering etc.
We went out in December on a full RJ from BWI-MKE and there were a total of SIX meals for sale. This, at lunch time, needless to say at least 20-30 short. Flight attendant says this happens all the time and that she won't be able to offer ANY to the next flight.
I asked her why not tell the supervisors and she said they have sent numerous e mails to various departments.
WHY?
We went out in December on a full RJ from BWI-MKE and there were a total of SIX meals for sale. This, at lunch time, needless to say at least 20-30 short. Flight attendant says this happens all the time and that she won't be able to offer ANY to the next flight.
I asked her why not tell the supervisors and she said they have sent numerous e mails to various departments.
WHY?
Jan 10, 2008, 7:33 am
#9
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MKE to EWR or PHL to Princeton, NJ; MKE to BOS
Programs: Midwest Miles Executive, Marriott Gold, Hyatt Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 30
Wow - I can't believe how widespread this is. Even sitting in Row 14 every week to and from Boston (and Newark before they switched to the little planes) I was rarely able to order the meal I wanted.
That and it's amazing that I could only get milk with my cookies about half the time... I always waited for the second beverage service so my milk wouldn't be gross and warm when the cookies came. I know it's nitpicking, and quite honestly it's the signature seats that are the real draw, but come on, if you're going to advertise the service and meal aspect of the flight then at least be certain you're going to have meals to at least cover most of the plane!
That and it's amazing that I could only get milk with my cookies about half the time... I always waited for the second beverage service so my milk wouldn't be gross and warm when the cookies came. I know it's nitpicking, and quite honestly it's the signature seats that are the real draw, but come on, if you're going to advertise the service and meal aspect of the flight then at least be certain you're going to have meals to at least cover most of the plane!
Jan 10, 2008, 7:43 am
#11
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MKE to EWR or PHL to Princeton, NJ; MKE to BOS
Programs: Midwest Miles Executive, Marriott Gold, Hyatt Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 30
You would think they could coordinate meals based on anticipated loads, and average percentage of pax who purchase meals on certain routes/times... or maybe they are and just not doing a good job?
Jan 10, 2008, 2:14 pm
#12
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: MKE
Programs: Midwest Miles, AirTran A+ Rewards
Posts: 1,445
yes, plus if you booked your flight weeks/months in advance do you want to commit to a meal purchase? perhaps you thought you would be able to eat at the airport but something happened... plane could be delayed/cancelled which changes your plans.
You would think they could coordinate meals based on anticipated loads, and average percentage of pax who purchase meals on certain routes/times... or maybe they are and just not doing a good job?
You would think they could coordinate meals based on anticipated loads, and average percentage of pax who purchase meals on certain routes/times... or maybe they are and just not doing a good job?
Jan 10, 2008, 5:41 pm
#14
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Milwaukee
Programs: YX
Posts: 170
When they first started the In flight Café food service, this was mentioned as an option in the future. In flight Café is long gone, Best Care Cuisine has been around for awhile. You would think they would have something in place by now.
Jan 10, 2008, 5:42 pm
#15
Join Date: Jun 2005
Programs: AS MVPG
Posts: 2,206
I rarely fly on Midwest anymore (not because I don't want to, but because I live no where near anywhere they fly to) but I never had any problem getting the meal I wanted. Is this a new thing with not having enough meals? I always liked their food, so I would be disappointed if they didn't have enough next time I flew with them.